Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?

[Axulus]

Just to be 100% clear, the 5th amendment right to due process either applies to everyone or it applies to no one. It is impossible for there to be something in between because if it is allowed for some and not for others, the determination itself on who it applies to would either require due process (meaning due process applies to everyone), or it would be determined arbitrarily by the government (which means it applies to no one).

The 5th amendment is very clear: "No person...", not citizen, not people here legally, but everyone.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Shown step by step that several were here legally seeking asylum (one was escaping Maduro's prison torture, for example), had comitted no crimes, and had no gang affiliation, and their 5th amendment right was violated.

Eh? Where? It's possible I suppose but I can't see where you brought this specific person to my attention.

Are you being serious or are you just fucking with me?

Post in thread 'Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?'

Mar 20, 2025

A professional soccer player tortured by the Maduro regime for participating in two protests, seeking asylum, was disappeared based on a tattoo of his favorite soccer team and this image from social media based in information received from ICE. NOTHING ELSE!

His attorney claims on a sworn affidavit (under the penalty of perjury) to have proof he had no criminal record in venezuela, no criminal record in the US, a sworn affidavit from the tattoo artist explaining the tattoo, examples of similar tattoos of many other professional soccer players, and many non-gang related explainations...

• Axulus

• 

That's all very vague, the person isn't even named in there. Seriously, it sounds made up.

Jerce Reyes Barrios

The Department of Homeland Security has accused Barrios of having a gang-affiliated tattoo and claimed a photo of him showed him displaying gang signs. ABC News has reached out to DHS.

The tattoo in question showed a crown sitting on top of a soccer ball with a rosary and the word "Dios" (God), according to Tobin. A declaration from the tattoo artist confirmed that Barrios chose it because it was similar to the Real Madrid soccer team logo, the attorney said. According to Tobin, those alleged gang signs were the hand symbol for rock and roll and "I love you" in sign language.

Tobin also said she submitted records from Venezuela that indicated Barrios had no criminal record in his home country and was employed as a professional soccer player and children's soccer coach.

To review my earlier post (EMPHASIS ADDED):

Great question. I am not going to say I have the answer or that I want to argue. I am just trying to be creative. MAYBE they know more than we do, but if that's the case, then why wouldn't they use this information in a due process trial? MAYBE (again), the information was obtained illegally. Warrantless wiretaps and/or all the tech broligarchs happily giving data to Trump without warrants and/or MAYBE they just THINK they know more because some dropout college kid named Bigballs4Jezus created an AI program to identify gang members from their private social media and Alexa feeds.

There used to be an NSA spying program called TALON. It could be that the program was resurrected and modernized with AI, social media scraping, wiretaps etc. Justification for warrantless wiretaps was related to USA PATRIOT Act and FISA tweaks from that law. It could be one reason the designation of the gang was changed to a terrorist organization so that these laws could apply.

And even another reason to invoke a terrorist declaration could be for another law: the Military Commissions Act which would also make it so that normal due process would not need to be followed, but rather secret military courts...or at least that would be Trump's goal.

Like I said, I'm just trying to be creative here...

So, what I am saying is that it is plausible that the DHS took Venezuelans who are not yet citizens and massively applied programming to online media (accessed without warrant), cellphone data etc, programmatically perusing photos, advanced algorithms and AI searching for tattoos, verbiage, clothing, symbols, hand signs etc that might mean gang membership. Then, they took that group and made a claim they are gang members without any due process because they have improperly invoked laws that would allow them to do that. According to the USA PATROIT Act they would need to back-apply warrants to these situations at the end of the month/quarter or some regular timeframe I don't remember and the report would be classified, going to a congressional committee, of course headed by the Republicans.

 

[TSwizzle]

Already showed you many of them were here legally and with no criminal record and yet you again repeat this.

Many? Some? A few? I really didn't see the specifics. I don't think there is enough information out there about specific cases to actually be sure one way or the other. There is a lot of complaining from lefties about it for sure but not much else.

Which is why we have to use due process to determine one way or the other, duh. Anything else is complete lawlessness.

Under normal circumstances I would agree. But these are not normal circumstances so some leeway should be allowed (although I do think Trump's boys are stretching the laws to their limit). Are you forgetting that during Brandon's term that around 9 million people have entered the USA, mostly illegally or under the false pretense of seeking asylum via Brandon's asylum app? And many of these people are indeed violent criminals such as the one that raped and murdered Laken Riley? Some of them are members of a vicious South American gang that have terrorized other immigrants?

 

[Axulus]

Already showed you many of them were here legally and with no criminal record and yet you again repeat this.

Many? Some? A few? I really didn't see the specifics. I don't think there is enough information out there about specific cases to actually be sure one way or the other. There is a lot of complaining from lefties about it for sure but not much else.

Which is why we have to use due process to determine one way or the other, duh. Anything else is complete lawlessness.

Under normal circumstances I would agree. But these are not normal circumstances so some leeway should be allowed (although I do think Trump's boys are stretching the laws to their limit). Are you forgetting that during Brandon's term that around 9 million people have entered the USA, mostly illegally or under the false pretense of seeking asylum via Brandon's asylum app? And many of these people are indeed violent criminals such as the one that raped and murdered Laken Riley? Some of them are members of a vicious South American gang that have terrorized other immigrants?

There is no leeway in the 5th amendment right to due process. It is _very_ clear.

5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Courts have determined, in the early days of the republic, that this even applies to foreign pirates captured in international waters.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?params=/context/nulr/article/1316/&path_info=112.3_Chapman.pdf

If the bill of rights can be ignored whenever the government so desires, then we have complete lawlessness and no rights.

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If the bill of rights can be ignored whenever the government so desires, then we have complete lawlessness and no rights.

Trump says HE is the law. TSwizzle is okay with that.

 

[TSwizzle]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

 

[Axulus]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison. If the government had evidence against them that they could present in front of a judge, then they could have been kicked out of the USA WITHOUT being denied due process. And it really doesn't take much evidence in cases where people are here illegally or seeking asylum. The bar is very low.

If the government gets away with this, you really think they will stop there? If the government gets to decide who gets to have due process and who doesn't, then it can literally make up any lie about anyone and then deny due process to anyone they want without a court being able to review it. A court reviewing it is what due process is!

What is so hard for you to understand about that?

 

[TSwizzle]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison.

One, two, a dozen, whatever, asylum seekers who break the law are deported. That's the way it works. Now you can argue about whether they actually broke a law all you like but asylum seekers can be kicked out without having "due process". Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way the asylum process works. And I have already said Trump's boys are getting a bit creative with the laws and he may be reigned in.

 

[Axulus]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison.

One, two, a dozen, whatever, asylum seekers who break the law are deported. That's the way it works. Now you can argue about whether they actually broke a law all you like but asylum seekers can be kicked out without having "due process". Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way the asylum process works. And I have already said Trump's boys are getting a bit creative with the laws and he may be reigned in.

You are completely wrong. Asylum seekers are guaranteed due process by the asylum law itself and the 5th Amendment to the US constitution. The asylum law spells out in great detail the process that is to be followed. Where the hell did you get that from?

 

[TSwizzle]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison.

One, two, a dozen, whatever, asylum seekers who break the law are deported. That's the way it works. Now you can argue about whether they actually broke a law all you like but asylum seekers can be kicked out without having "due process". Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way the asylum process works. And I have already said Trump's boys are getting a bit creative with the laws and he may be reigned in.

You are completely wrong.

I know I'm not.

Asylum seekers are guaranteed due process by the asylum law itself and the 5th Amendment to the US constitution. The asylum law spells out in great detail the process that is to be followed. Where the hell did you get that from?

You are wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison.

One, two, a dozen, whatever, asylum seekers who break the law are deported. That's the way it works. Now you can argue about whether they actually broke a law all you like but asylum seekers can be kicked out without having "due process". Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way the asylum process works. And I have already said Trump's boys are getting a bit creative with the laws and he may be reigned in.

A bit creative? Sending a group of people, of which only a subset, as ceded by Trump Admin lawyers, have a criminal record... to a prison in El Salvador. They weren't merely deported.

 

[Axulus]

For fucks sake we even gave Nazi war criminals due process at the Nuremberg trials. And you are saying we can't even provide it to an asylum seeker with no criminal record before sending them off to a life of slavery in a foreign gulag?

You are obsessing about one sketchy case. But asylum seekers may be kicked out of the USA if they do break the law.

This was not "one sketchy case." This was hundreds of individuals denied due process sent to a foreign slave prison.

One, two, a dozen, whatever, asylum seekers who break the law are deported. That's the way it works. Now you can argue about whether they actually broke a law all you like but asylum seekers can be kicked out without having "due process". Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way the asylum process works. And I have already said Trump's boys are getting a bit creative with the laws and he may be reigned in.

You are completely wrong.

I know I'm not.

Asylum seekers are guaranteed due process by the asylum law itself and the 5th Amendment to the US constitution. The asylum law spells out in great detail the process that is to be followed. Where the hell did you get that from?

You are wrong.

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

From US court official government website:

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/uploads/immigration/immig_west/E.pdf

Immigration proceedings, although not subject to the full range of constitutional protections, must conform to the Fifth Amendment’s requirement of due process.” Salgado-Diaz v. Gonzales, 395 F.3d 1158, 1162 (9th Cir. 2005) (as amended); see also Grigoryan v. Barr, 959 F.3d 1233, 1240 (9th Cir. 2020); Gonzaga-Ortega v. Holder, 736 F.3d 795, 804 (9th Cir. 2013) (as amended); Vilchez v. Holder, 682 F.3d 1195, 1199 (9th Cir. 2012); United States v. Reyes-Bonilla, 671 F.3d 1036, 1045 (9th Cir. 2012); Pangilinan v. Holder, 568 F.3d 708, 709 (9th Cir. 2009).

Aliens “who have once passed through our gates, even illegally,” are afforded the full panoply of procedural due process protections, and “may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness.” Shaughnessy v. United States ex rel. Mezei, [345 U.S. 206, 212] (1953).

This link has much more beyond that. I mean seriously, the 5th amendment is basic high school civics stuff.

Even the USCIS website explains the due process guarantees:

Types of Affirmative Asylum Decisions | USCIS

When you apply for asylum in the affirmative process with USCIS, you will receive one of the following decisions (for information on the ways to obtain asylum, visit our

www.uscis.gov

If we are unable to approve your asylum application and you are in the United States illegally, we will forward (or refer) your asylum case to an immigration court. A referral to an immigration judge includes your spouse and unmarried children under 21 if they:

Were included on your asylum application
Are in the United States illegally.
A referral is not a denial of your asylum application. Instead, we refer your case for further review by an immigration court. If we cannot approve an asylum claim, we will send you a letter of explanation and a Form I-862, Notice to Appear, indicating the date and time you are scheduled to appear in court. You do not have to re-file your asylum application.

The immigration judge will evaluate your asylum claim independently and is not required to rely on or follow the decision made by USCIS.

 

[Axulus]

Federal judge taking first steps towards finding the Trump administration in contempt for not following the court order to turn the planes around. The showdown is heating up:

 

[TSwizzle]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

 

[Axulus]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

Yes, but they can not (legally) lose their due process protections. You are now saying something completely different and has nothing to do with what you claimed I was wrong about.

Speeding up the process is not a removal of the process, so I don't get why you even brought that up.

 

[TSwizzle]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

Yes, but they can not (legally) lose their due process protections.

That is the process! They get arrested/break the law, it's over. No asylum for you, off you go. NEXT!!!

 

[Axulus]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

Yes, but they can not (legally) lose their due process protections.

Are you dense? That is the process! They get arrested/break the law, it's over. No asylum for you, off you go. NEXT!!!

So now we are in the realm of make believe? The determination that they broke the law by an independent judge is the fucking process dip shit. A process that you are arguing doesn't need to be followed, so we can all live in your fascist totalitarian utopia.

Not only that, but ICE didn't even allege any crime for many of them. It is in their own legal filings which I posted and mentioned at least a dozen times. Do try to keep up. I know reading is hard.

 

[TSwizzle]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

Yes, but they can not (legally) lose their due process protections.

Are you dense? That is the process! They get arrested/break the law, it's over. No asylum for you, off you go. NEXT!!!

So now we are in the realm of make believe?

It is you that lives in fantasyland.

The determination that they broke the law by an independent judge is the fucking process dip shit.

Not for asylum applicants. It is up to the DHS (or immigration officer or such). Just being arrested or a fraudulent claim is enough to get your ass kicked out. It's called expedited removal. Look it up for fuck's sake.

 

[Elixir]

So now we are in the realm of make believe? The determination that they broke the law by an independent judge is the fucking process dip shit

In the Royal Shithole of Trumpistan in which Swiz thinks he lives (and he may be right), the thug making the arrest also makes the determination that the person they have cuffed is to be deported.

Extrajudicial deportation is the only way to get all the bad guys. That's why The Royal Shithole will be crime free very soon.

Previous to the coup, asylum cases were heard by Immigration Judges. They were agents of the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR), which was a department within the Department of Justice. It has probably been deemed "fraud and waste" by now. They WERE who determined whether an individual could remain in the United States based on their asylum claim. But who needs 'em other than illegals? Now it's up to the thug, and the thug's decision is both final and unreviewable. Clean and simple.

Welcome to the Royal Shithole.

PS if Swiz thinks all those people who were guilty of nothing more than being swept up in a raid but were deported nonetheless, were first given a hearing, it is indeed Swiz who is delusional. Those deportations were not only illegal, the recent ones were in direct violation of a judicial order. That's why The Royal Shit Himself has demanded that the judge be impeached.

 

[Axulus]

Are you fucking with me again or do you really not know this?

Asylum applicants can lose their asylum protection status if they break the law or are arrested and can then be removed/deported. It's an immigration/federal/DHS jurisdiction. That's just the way it works. In fact, I think Brandon was trying to speed it up too. Dunno what else to tell you.

Yes, but they can not (legally) lose their due process protections.

Are you dense? That is the process! They get arrested/break the law, it's over. No asylum for you, off you go. NEXT!!!

So now we are in the realm of make believe?

It is you that lives in fantasyland.

The determination that they broke the law by an independent judge is the fucking process dip shit.

Not for asylum applicants. It is up to the DHS (or immigration officer or such). Just being arrested or a fraudulent claim is enough to get your ass kicked out. It's called expedited removal. Look it up for fuck's sake.

That did not happen here. How many fucking times do I have to repeat myself?

And no, being arrested alone is not sufficient to allow deportation on its own without being independently reviewed. They still have a right to a deportation proceeding. If that were true then there would never need to be hearings for anyone held by ICE you fetid moppet.

And as for expedited removal:

Expedited removal is a process used by ICE to remove individuals from the United States without a hearing before an immigration judge. Traditionally, expedited removal has been used to remove individuals with outstanding removal orders issued by an immigration judge, individuals seeking admission at ports of entry who are found inadmissible, individuals unlawfully present who are found near the border shortly after arrival, and individuals who arrive by sea.

DHS Expands Categories of Individuals Subject to Expedited Removal (Deportation)

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has published a notice expanding the ability of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to remove

www.globalimmigrationblog.com

That has fuck all to do with what happened here.

Why do you think the Alien Enemies Act was invoked? It was a fraudulant attempt to legally justify it, and now the orange hitler is on the verge of contempt of court for doing it and disobeying a court order to reverse it.