Are people already regretting their choice?

[ImGod]

The 25% who agree work in meat packing or some other worse jerb.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

RVonse's solution to make life easier for the proles.

Make housing more expensive!

Builder sentiment in the market for new homes has been slumping for months and stayed low in April, according to the National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index released Wednesday. When asked about tariffs’ effect on their businesses, 60 percent of builders said their suppliers have already increased, or announced increases, on goods prices because of tariffs. Builders are estimating a typical cost effect of nearly $11,000 per home, given how many products from abroad will be hit by the trade war.

 

[Swammerdami]

I think you missed the thrust of my question, RVonse . There's much evidence that Trump's economic programs are misguided but this is NOT the reason so many millions of rational Americans oppose him. Many of us are disgusted and in fear that his government bears so many similarities to the Naziism and Fascism that so many of us despise.

Mussolini allegedly got the trains to run on time, and Hitler's huge armaments programs boosted Germany's GDP, but most of us don't want to live in a Fascist regime anyway. I've proposed several objections that many of us have -- I'll mention one more, the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia -- and I sincerely want to hear your opinion on this and some of those other matters.

Abrego Garcia has a wife and three children who are all U.S. citizens. He was working LEGALLY in the U.S. with a 'Do Not Deport' order. He was deported to El Salvador charged only with ... "Wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie." Even with the laughable claim that this was "clear and convincing evidence of criminality", it was NOT "proof beyond any reasonable doubt." The Trump Administration is now pretending that they are helpless: El Salvador will not release him from prison.

Some Comcast networks (MSNBC, CNBC, USA Network, etc.) took the pro-Garcia side in this controversy so Trump's FCC is now threatening to revoke Comcast's broadcasting licenses.

@RVonse --

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

• I assume it will do no good to point out that much of what Trump says is a lie. MAGATs treat these lies as sarcasm, comedy, and/or antidotes to liberal lies.
• I assume that deporting green-card holders to a prison in El Salvador for denouncing Trump on social media will not bother MAGAts. Dissent is not what is needed for our brave new world. And anyway, America is for Americans.
• Trump's ignorance and refusal to listen to expert advice will not sway the MAGAts. Trump is an idiot-savant whose instincts and intuition outperform a dozen platoons of PhDs.
• Musk's decimation of the SSA, which will lead to people not getting their checks. doesn't bother MAGAts. Even retired MAGAts are happy to sacrifice for the greater good. We have to start paying off the $36 trillion debt somehow; depriving useless retirees makes more sense than denying another tax cut to the billionaires who will help Make America Great Again.
• Decimating the IRS is also a step in the right direction. Liberals are suckers who will pay their taxes even if the IRS lacks the wherewithal to audit. Republicans now free to cheat will instead donate to charity or Create Jobs with the extra money.
• Character issues like harassing and even raping women are no drawback. We NEED a virile man to confront Denmark and our other enemies. Anyway, wouldn't YOU be grabbing pussy if you were a billionaire and a star?
• Some Democrats are whining that Trump's government will no longer provide security for Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden's children. But the American taxpayer isn't "made of money"!! What better way to save money? Anyway, unlike Trump's family, these scumbags grifted millions from the taxpayer and can pay for their own security.

I could go on, but you see the problem: MAGAts have an answer for most complaints.

Can anyone help? RVonse -- Is there ANY complaint against Trump you'd like to learn more about?

The best argument against MAGA is a Democrat solution. If Trump is nuts, how do you believe manufacturing can be brought back to America? Doing nothing is no longer survivable because $1trillion+ deficits are not survivable. And not having our own heavy manufacturing is incompatible with remaining a reserve status exceptional country.

Since you insist on focusing on economics, let me mention

• The Nasdaq-100 index (QQQ) is still down 18% from its February high.
• S&P500 is down 14% from its February high.
• Caterpillar stock is down 29% since Trump's election.
• GM stock is down 25% from its November high.
• Gold set a record high today: $108 per gram.

Does it look like investors agree with you about the efficacy of Trump's policies?

So I ask again. Do the Democrats just want to sit around and die?

Evidence has been presented to you over and over and over and over that economies under a Democratic President consistently outperform Republican Presidencies; this is true even in the important matters of deficit and debt reduction. Will you acknowledge this fact?

 

[RVonse]

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

I don't know if Garcia should have been deported without due process because I am not an attorney. I do know that "due process" for illegals depends greatly upon a number of factors such as how long they have been in the US and what their current status was/is. "Morally" I agree with you that this is an injustice, showing good example of someone simply caught up in US politics. But that happens all the time in our country. Democrat supporters like yourself never seem to mind injustices when your side does this. How is this case any different than all the lawfare and court appearances for Trump that would not even have taken place without a political circus? The vast majority of Trump's convictions and charges all took place in highly biased settings by Democrats. That did not seem to bother you or other Democrats at all. Hopefully you are honest enough to see a similarity with this. Because in the better world, Trump would not have been convicted nor would Garcia been deported if the world was not caught up in politics.

So yes I believe Garcia got a raw deal but I also feel the Democrats had their hand in this too. As I have repeated many times over, Biden and Democrats could have and should have kept the borders secure. But they didn't because they wanted more voters. Trump has proven to us all that had Biden and other Democrats truly wanted border security they would have done it. And had Biden and other Democrats not had border issues combined with their carefully crafted safe cities, letting in MASSIVE amounts of new people, they probably would not have lost the last POTUS election and Trump would not have to return such a huge number of people. I blame this more on the Democrats than I do Trump. At least Trump wants existing citizens to vote for him fair and square, he does not have to import illegals to cheat.

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

It is also important to point out that our legal system sucks to begin with. The US has plenty of innocent people sitting in jail right now who are only there because they took plea bargain instead of proving they were innocent. And that does not count all the people who were proven guilty by a jury even though they weren't. Life can suck if you get unlucky.

As for Comcast and others, I believe media should be split up (as it was before Clinton) so we might hopefully get more balanced news.

 

[laughing dog]

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

Life can suck if you get unlucky.

So why the concern about losing manufacturing jobs? Those workers were unlucky because they picked the wrong sector. After all, life can suck if you get unlucky!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

I don't know if Garcia should have been deported without due process because I am not an attorney.

SCOTUS said Garcia shouldn't have been deported without Due Process. There, now you know, because apparently you don't read.

I do know that "due process" for illegals depends greatly upon a number of factors such as how long they have been in the US and what their current status was/is.

He isn't illegal. He is very legal. He isn't a citizen, but he is legal.

So yes I believe Garcia got a raw deal but I also feel the Democrats had their hand in this too.

The guy who committed no crime is in a Super Max prison in El Salvador, and you just want to call it a "raw deal" like someone screwed him in a used car sale?!

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

You seem to be justifying dictatorship here. We just need to take the President's declaration as fact. Incredible how you fear government tyranny, yet are embracing the fuck out of it!

 

[RVonse]

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

You seem to be justifying dictatorship here. We just need to take the President's declaration as fact. Incredible how you fear government tyranny, yet are embracing the fuck out of it!

How do you want to give court appearances to so many people? People who should not even be here to begin with?

 

[RVonse]

So yes I believe Garcia got a raw deal but I also feel the Democrats had their hand in this too.

The guy who committed no crime is in a Super Max prison in El Salvador, and you just want to call it a "raw deal" like someone screwed him in a used car sale?!

He is better off than the person on death row for a crime they did not commit. And the Democrats would have no problem finding many of those examples in the US if it suited their political purpose.

 

[RVonse]

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

Life can suck if you get unlucky.

So why the concern about losing manufacturing jobs? Those workers were unlucky because they picked the wrong sector. After all, life can suck if you get unlucky!

If it were only one person, I agree you have a valid point.

But in the case of manufacturing, we are talking about a massive amount of people who legally live here to begin and also having legal voting rights. In a democracy you can not ignore such a massive block of people.

 

[Jarhyn]

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

You seem to be justifying dictatorship here. We just need to take the President's declaration as fact. Incredible how you fear government tyranny, yet are embracing the fuck out of it!

How do you want to give court appearances to so many people? People who should not even be here to begin with?

By creating courts and hiring judges and clerks and actually putting together the mechanism to do it properly.

It is your assertion that they should not be here to begin with and the fact is that the same laws that protect them protect you and me and everyone else. Or they used to...

We all know how it goes when the laws about that stop being respected.

Yours is the age-old refrain from the face that calls out for the boot.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You seem to be justifying dictatorship here. We just need to take the President's declaration as fact. Incredible how you fear government tyranny, yet are embracing the fuck out of it!

How do you want to give court appearances to so many people? People who should not even be here to begin with?

So you are suggesting that "convenience" is enough of a reason to ignore due process. So if ICE takes you in and exports you to El Salvador, who cares because... convenience?

The guy who committed no crime is in a Super Max prison in El Salvador, and you just want to call it a "raw deal" like someone screwed him in a used car sale?!

He is better off than the person on death row for a crime they did not commit.

JFCOAS! Are you kidding me?!

 

[Swammerdami]

The Editor here handles multi-quotes buggily. Still I do NOT like being misquoted. Please use care, folks.

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

I did NOT write these words that RVonse attributed to me. They are RVonse's own words.

So yes I believe Garcia got a raw deal but I also feel the Democrats had their hand in this too.

I did NOT write these words that RVonse attributed to me. They are RVonse's own words.

While I'm here, I mildly denounce those who quoted RVonse and didn't correct the misattribution.
Obviously I would never write such stupid things.

 

[laughing dog]

• Should Garcia have been deported without due process?
• Do you think El Salvador would return Garcia (assuming he is still alive) if Trump asked them to?
• Do you agree that Comcast should have its licenses revoked for claiming that Garcia is not a criminal?

Life can suck if you get unlucky.

So why the concern about losing manufacturing jobs? Those workers were unlucky because they picked the wrong sector. After all, life can suck if you get unlucky!

If it were only one person, I agree you have a valid point.

But in the case of manufacturing, we are talking about a massive amount of people who legally live here to begin and also having legal voting rights. In a democracy you can not ignore such a massive block of people.

If it sucks to be unlucky, then it sucks to be unlucky. Or are you saying, it sucks to be unlucky unless you had a manufacturing job? Sounds like special pleading to me. In any event, every single one of those people who lost their manufacturing jobs are better off than Garcia or anyone on death row who is innocent, so what's the beef?

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

To RVonse - the concept of due process applies to every person in a civilized nation. So this includes citizens, residents, and even tourists visiting from another nation. Trump is in violation of not only US law, but international standards.

 

[Jarhyn]

The Editor here handles multi-quotes buggily. Still I do NOT like being misquoted. Please use care, folks.

People like Axulus will tell you Trump is not giving the illegals proper due process. But when you let in massive amounts of people who should not be in this country to begin with, just how well could any country expect to give them due process? We don't have enough courts and judges to possibly hold appearances for all these people who have over run our borders. To give each and every one of them the due process Axulus wants, we would have to tie our courts up for the next 400 years or so.

I did NOT write these words that RVonse attributed to me. They are RVonse's own words.

So yes I believe Garcia got a raw deal but I also feel the Democrats had their hand in this too.

I did NOT write these words that RVonse attributed to me. They are RVonse's own words.

While I'm here, I mildly denounce those who quoted RVonse and didn't correct the misattribution.
Obviously I would never write such stupid things.

I tend not to read deep quotes at all, and maybe that's my fault. This particular quote chain is pretty borked.

 

[crazyfingers]

To RVonse - the concept of due process applies to every person in a civilized nation. So this includes citizens, residents, and even tourists visiting from another nation. Trump is in violation of not only US law, but international standards.

I have RV on ignore. Is he really saying that Due process can be ignored?

I suggest the 4th Amendment requires that the federal government provide Due Process and it says nothing about a citizen or not. The 14th Amendment requires that the states provide Due Process.

Anyone who says that Due Process is not a requirement is ignoring the constitution.

 

[bilby]

I have RV on ignore. Is he really saying that Due process can be ignored?

No, don't be silly.

He's saying that due process can and should be ignored.

How do you want to give court appearances to so many people? People who should not even be here to begin with?

See, he knows that the people being denied due process "should not even be here to begin with".

How he (or anyone) could possibly know that a given person "should not even be here to begin with", other than via due process, is unclear.

 

[Toni]

US heavy manufacturing is necessary to maintain military dominance. Because once a war is established (other than nuclear) the side who can maintain weapons logistics will win.

The US has no shortage of military manufacturing; She is a large net exporter of weapons systems, particularly heavy weapons systems.

Building automobiles (or refrigerators, or televisions...) is not relevant to that industry.

Yes and no. Resources currently devoted to military equipment could be utilized in other less violent purposes. Monetary resources, intellectual resources, mental, including those necessary for electronics and data, off the top of my head.

What if the world quit having wars?

 

[bilby]

US heavy manufacturing is necessary to maintain military dominance. Because once a war is established (other than nuclear) the side who can maintain weapons logistics will win.

The US has no shortage of military manufacturing; She is a large net exporter of weapons systems, particularly heavy weapons systems.

Building automobiles (or refrigerators, or televisions...) is not relevant to that industry.

Yes and no. Resources currently devoted to military equipment could be utilized in other less violent purposes. Monetary resources, intellectual resources, mental, including those necessary for electronics and data, off the top of my head.

What if the world quit having wars?

If the world quit having wars, we would still need advanced weapons of war to maintain that condition.

An armed peace, in which nobody dares invade anyone else, can at least theoretically be stable; An unarmed peace collapses the instant anyone anywhere sees how vulnerable their unarmed neighbours are, and starts secretly building weapons.

The longest and most significant period of peace in history is the Cold War. It wasn't hugely peaceful in absolute terms, but by comparison to the rest of history, it really was. Particularly once the USA got a draw and a loss out of her South East Asian efforts, and the USSR got their arses kicked in Afghanistan, showing the superpowers that even non-nuclear proxy wars were bad strategy.

 

[Politesse]

The longest and most significant period of peace in history is the Cold War. It wasn't hugely peaceful in absolute terms, but by comparison to the rest of history, it really was.

Yeah, none of the important countries were subjected to genocide.