Are people already regretting their choice?

[Swammerdami]

If RVonse refuses to leave his tunnel, that will help us answer the question in Thread title: "Are people already regretting their choice?" No, they revel in Trump's idiocies and fascism. So what does this teach us about human cognition in the 21st century?

I would be surprised if we will know even by the end of Trump's term whether his policy is working or not. Since the US is a rapidly declining empire there does not seem to be too much to lose though.

If GDP declines permanently and never recovers before 4 year end of Trump's term then most should be forced to say his administration did not work and the tariff idea was completely wrong. But even admitting that mistake does not make choosing Trump the worst option. Because at least Trump tried and failed versus doing nothing at all.

We must do something. This is "something". Therefore we must do this.

To save a Googling: Sir Humphrey Appleby is a fictional character on BBC's Yes, Minister

 

[Patooka]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

 

[Swammerdami]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

Wm of Ockham: Do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

 

[Swammerdami]

The sudden market downturn in response to Trump's tariffs will surely awaken some Trumpists. If you can tolerate Rachel Maddow, she presents the origin of Trump's tariffs beginning at the 6:35 mark in this video.

Trump's obsession with tariffs began when Jared Kushner, aware of his father-in-law's "thinking" and "knowing" that there was no risk of actually winning the 2016 election and putting stupid ideas into play, browsed through titles on Amazon, and found Death by China by Peter Navarro. The semi-literate Trump fell in love with the title, and adopted its pro-tariff stance The book cited the "work" of economist Ron Vara who turned out to be a totally fictional character invented by Death by China's author !!! "Ron Varo" is an anagram of "Navarro"!!

Trump's obsession with tariffs began far before that:

The sudden market downturn will be temporary and we do not even know at this point if the downturn is over yet. The stock market may fall even much further next week. And we certainly do not know when (or if) the market will return again.

But here is what we do know. We know that a fearless political leader has finally taken steps that should have been taken many decades ago. We do not know if his courage and bravery will prevail yet. But what we do know for sure is that what America had in place by our previous governing elite WASN'T working. That status quo "Democrat do nothing approach" was NOT an option, observing key performance indicators of our peer competitor China on track to surpass the US (if it has not already). Yes, MAGA supporters own 401k's just like everyone else but they are also the adults who are willing to take short term pain if it helps our country become strong and healthy again.

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

You sound like a class warfare Marxist.

What happens if Trumponomics fails? Will that still justify all the avoidable illegal deportations and attendant anguish on innocent families, and the economic destruction?

Trumponomics is designed to cause Recession. Then, from the ashes of the misbegotten 90+ years of Marxo-Jihadism under FDR-to-Brandon, a new truer Prosperity will emerge. Temporary pain is useful so the Masses rejoice and are awe-struck when Trumponomics finally succeeds at the end of this decade (or in the 2030's or 2040's if we take RVonse's long view).

Meanwhile, since the deliberate Recession will cost immigrants their jobs, flying them to El Salvador for free (rather than making them buy a ticket to Shit-hole-wherever) is an act of compassion. It isn't Trump's fault if El Salvador locks them up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

RVonse is paranoid of the tyranny of the mainstream powers. So much so, he doesn't remotely get that he is openly embracing actual tyranny. Trump is fucking over his supporters with a social media company, digital currency, campaign donations siphon. Yet, his supporters can't remark anything but how much they think Trump cares about them.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The sudden market downturn will be temporary and we do not even know at this point if the downturn is over yet. The stock market may fall even much further next week. And we certainly do not know when (or if) the market will return again.

But here is what we do know. We know that a fearless political leader has finally taken steps that should have been taken many decades ago. We do not know if his courage and bravery will prevail yet. But what we do know for sure is that what America had in place by our previous governing elite WASN'T working. That status quo "Democrat do nothing approach" was NOT an option, observing key performance indicators of our peer competitor China on track to surpass the US (if it has not already). Yes, MAGA supporters own 401k's just like everyone else but they are also the adults who are willing to take short term pain if it helps our country become strong and healthy again.

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Perhaps instead of hitting everyone with tariffs, both friend and foe, it might have been better to go after foe and foe adjacent countries. Maybe if we impose tariffs on friends at all, we go easy for now so as not to shock the world's economy. And maybe give countries who's economy area mere fraction of ours a pass for now.
From my reading here it seems many folks retirement funds have no self direct option to them. I'm guessing they are at the mercy of whoever is running them and the investment rules set forth within.
And as for the very wealthy. They're not getting hit as hard as you might think. They always have cash for such occasions and they follow the money flow of institutional investors. They knew when the party was over. They, right now are feeding money slowly into the market, averaging down and will come out on top when all this is over. They always do. It's the little guy who always acts late getting out and then again getting back in who loses.
What you got right in all this is your opening statements. No one knows and given the gravity of the actions, it should not have been done in such a rash manner.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I would be surprised if we will know even by the end of Trump's term whether his policy is working or not. Since the US is a rapidly declining empire there does not seem to be too much to lose though.

If GDP declines permanently and never recovers before 4 year end of Trump's term then most should be forced to say his administration did not work and the tariff idea was completely wrong. But even admitting that mistake does not make choosing Trump the worst option. Because at least Trump tried and failed versus doing nothing at all.

On what basis should we expect that what he is doing could even be right? I've seen no (non-toady) economists come forward saying that Trump's plan is a good idea, especially with no plan whatsoever on how to return manufacturing.

If we try something that turns out to be wrong that was a wrong idea in the first place, why would that have been worth trying? This seems like just another kind of "ivermectin" logic.

 

[Elixir]

This seems like just another kind of "ivermectin" logic.

Some trumptards are still taking Ivermectin, according to the place where I buy my horse’s de-wormer. The idea that they’re doing that, and would EVER find fault with Orange Jesus’ decisions, is laughable.

 

[Elixir]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

Wm of Ockham: Do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

A good axiom IMO.
But RV shows the ability to form proper sentences without a lot of the spelling and grammatical errors that typify stupid trumpsuckers. So imputing some degree of malice is unavoidable for me. YMMV
The schadenfreude of “pwning the libs” seems to me, to dominate his thought process.

 

[Politesse]

Well, I'm certainly regretting their choice.

 

[Swammerdami]

Perhaps instead of hitting everyone with tariffs, both friend and foe, it might have been better to go after foe and foe adjacent countries. Maybe if we impose tariffs on friends at all, we go easy for now so as not to shock the world's economy.

Some countries, including Russia and North Korea, ARE exempt from the tariffs. These are countries with which Trump and some of his cronies have been on friendly terms. The official line is that these countries are not being tariffed because they are already subject to sanctions, e.g. Russian banks are not allowed to participate in the SWIFT system of secure international finance messaging. Worth noting, however, is that there is a dispute in progress between EU and USA about those sanctions, with the USA advocating that Russia be allowed limited participation in SWIFT.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Perhaps instead of hitting everyone with tariffs, both friend and foe, it might have been better to go after foe and foe adjacent countries. Maybe if we impose tariffs on friends at all, we go easy for now so as not to shock the world's economy.

Some countries, including Russia and North Korea, ARE exempt from the tariffs. These are countries with which Trump and some of his cronies have been on friendly terms. The official line is that these countries are not being tariffed because they are already subject to sanctions, e.g. Russian banks are not allowed to participate in the SWIFT system of secure international finance messaging. Worth noting, however, is that there is a dispute in progress between EU and USA about those sanctions, with the USA advocating that Russia be allowed limited participation in SWIFT.

Imports from Russia are a tenth of what they were in 2021: $3B versus $30B. We have no trade with North Korea. We did stop purchasing enriched uranium from Russia. There should be tariffs on even this small amount of trade with Russia, the bulk of which is fittingly, fertilizer.

Trump advocating for the easing of sanctions on Russia might have been to entice Putin into a ceasefire. Who knows with Trump. Meanwhile, thumbing their nose at Trump, Russia launched missiles at Ukraine from the Black Sea yesterday. So much for the Black Sea ceasefire.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Defense Department’s Congressionally Directed Medical Research Program

Does it worry anybody else that the DoD has a medical research program?
Are they trying to weaponize Glioblastoma?
I also would have defunded that program.

I would expect the DOD to have a medical research program.

Healing combat injuries, preventing combat injuries, the mental stability of those with the capability of causing major devastation. How long you can have a boomer on patrol without risking someone cracking. What bugs might be weaponized against us?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also military medical research is not just confined to diseases. It is important for militaries (and it flows on to civilian sector) to study injury treatments, anti-trauma methods, rehabilitative techniques, and so on.

Yeah. Modern thought on the use of tourniquets stems directly from military research on their use in combat situations. Go take a stop the bleed class (it's a class pretty much everyone should take), you'll see the results of military medical research.

 

[lostone]

Many liberals also believed that Trump was not lying as blatantly as we now know he was. "We survived Trump-45. Trump-47 will be about the same"

I heard Conservatives say that Trump 45 was an asshole, but his POLICIES......I said that the 2024 Trump was NOT the 2016 Trump.

The ONLY solution I can offer is the drastic one of abolishing all social media, indirectly responsible for much of today's political problems.

The internet had so much potential, but as things turned out, it has made us the least informed society in history. AI in social media is only making it worse. Then the cries of "free speech" and the distrust of "fact checking" pretty much means AI can post utter bullshit in Facebook and people will believe it. There are thousands of bullshit AI posts about what a great compassionate genius Elon Musk is and boy do people lap that up.

The problem was, that in his first term, Trump was doing his best to try to be nice. He's now no longer even trying to hide his darker side. OTOH, it should have and was clear to anyone with on ounce of perception to see what he would be, once fully unleashed. Shame on us.

 

[Patooka]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR. Which of the 2 parties is supposed to be the party of rich? Well I guess from your aforementioned commenting, it must be Rachel Maddow and the Democrats since they appear most concerned about the stock market downturn. These filthy rich Democrats appear more concern about themselves and their stocks than the US middle class or their jobs or their manufacturing.

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

Wm of Ockham: Do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Congrats on waking up from your coma. But I feel as if I have to tell you that for years the "fuck your feelings" MAGA cunts are all about the cruelty and literally nothing else.

 

[KCFlyer]

he problem was, that in his first term, Trump was doing his best to try to be nice. He's now no longer even trying to hide his darker side. OTOH, it should have and was clear to anyone with on ounce of perception to see what he would be, once fully unleashed. Shame on us.

Well, that poem "the snake" that he used to love to read to the crowds to condemn migrants was actually describing him - "Silly woman, you knew damn well I was a snake when you took me in".

 

[Swammerdami]

The stock market downturn hurts everyone....but it especially hurts the rich. The filthy rich are ones who own most of the US stock market BY FAR....

Oh spare me. Your unconditional sycophancy towards scum like Trump and Musk is proof positive that you fucking love the filthy rich. You clearly hate the middle class and working families.

Wm of Ockham: Do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Congrats on waking up from your coma. But I feel as if I have to tell you that for years the "fuck your feelings" MAGA cunts are all about the cruelty and literally nothing else.

Which "coma" was that?

Anyway, the alleged Ockham quote referred to Mr. RVonse who seems to have a sincere belief that Trump's policies will "save" America.

I still wonder if there is SOME book or news article that would wake RVonse up. I think we should engage him and try to challenge his faith. He can be a "case study" in how to get Trumpists to grasp reality. This thread's title makes it look like the right place to point out facts that will help educate sincere but under-informed Trumpists.

Can we do it? Will you help, Patooka?

• I assume it will do no good to point out that much of what Trump says is a lie. MAGATs treat these lies as sarcasm, comedy, and/or antidotes to liberal lies.
• I assume that deporting green-card holders to a prison in El Salvador for denouncing Trump on social media will not bother MAGAts. Dissent is not what is needed for our brave new world. And anyway, America is for Americans.
• Trump's ignorance and refusal to listen to expert advice will not sway the MAGAts. Trump is an idiot-savant whose instincts and intuition outperform a dozen platoons of PhDs.
• Musk's decimation of the SSA, which will lead to people not getting their checks. doesn't bother MAGAts. Even retired MAGAts are happy to sacrifice for the greater good. We have to start paying off the $36 trillion debt somehow; depriving useless retirees makes more sense than denying another tax cut to the billionaires who will help Make America Great Again.
• Decimating the IRS is also a step in the right direction. Liberals are suckers who will pay their taxes even if the IRS lacks the wherewithal to audit. Republicans now free to cheat will instead donate to charity or Create Jobs with the extra money.
• Character issues like harassing and even raping women are no drawback. We NEED a virile man to confront Denmark and our other enemies. Anyway, wouldn't YOU be grabbing pussy if you were a billionaire and a star?
• Some Democrats are whining that Trump's government will no longer provide security for Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden's children. But the American taxpayer isn't "made of money"!! What better way to save money? Anyway, unlike Trump's family, these scumbags grifted millions from the taxpayer and can pay for their own security.

I could go on, but you see the problem: MAGAts have an answer for most complaints.

Surely there is SOME way to lead MAGAts (at least the few that aren't primarily motivated by hatreds and self-pity) to the Trough of Knowledge. But how?

Can anyone help? @RVonse -- Is there ANY complaint against Trump you'd like to learn more about?

 

[Elixir]

Anyway, the alleged Ockham quote referred to Mr. RVonse who seems to have a sincere belief that Trump's policies will "save" America.

The effect of 30+ years of Trumpaganda™ is enduring indeed.
In fairness, he has saved us* from about $5TRILLION in equity while simultaneously saving us from much of our government's ability to deliver services to its citizens. Also saved us from fear of inflation, which is now our BFF. This in less than three months.
Soon he will have saved us from trade deficits by eliminating trade.
* insider trading pals excepted

 

[KCFlyer]

I would expect the DOD to have a medical research program.

Healing combat injuries, preventing combat injuries, the mental stability of those with the capability of causing major devastation. How long you can have a boomer on patrol without risking someone cracking. What bugs might be weaponized against us?

They do. And they actually played a role in Elon's ventures. My old neighbor was a university researcher in neurology. He and another researcher at Case Western Reserve were one of a few schools that got research money to help soldiers suffering from traumatic brain injuries from IED's. They developed a brain implant and they got theirs to the stage of animal testing. And they trademarked a name for their device - NeuraLink. Someone approached them wanting to buy the name....they didn't say who. But it was Musk. And what do you know...Musk had a brain implant he "invented." Except he basically bought research that was funded by the same government grant that my friend was. Yet another Musk company that was basically funded by the government. Then he slashes the very programs that gave him Neuralink. For what it's worth - there is a youtube video of my friend demonstrating his device two years before Elon "founded" Neuralink.