Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[Bomb#20]

Not entirely. Scotland has a separate legal system, so differs in some ways.

True. IIRC, this ruling hinged on the fact that antidiscrimination law isn't one of the areas devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

 

[bilby]

Accurately ID should obviate the need for any genital checks.

What, we are all going to have to carry identity cards to use a bathroom now? What is this, 1984?

And any ID either requires a genital check in order to be issued; Or does not meet your criterion of "accuracy".

People just observe the rules and everything is good.

Freedom is slavery.

 

[seanie]

If everyone just observes the rules, there’s no issue.

And most trans women don’t pass, not in real life.

 

[seanie]

Not entirely. Scotland has a separate legal system, so differs in some ways.

True. IIRC, this ruling hinged on the fact that antidiscrimination law isn't one of the areas devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

When the Scottish Government lost the first case, they re-wrote the Bill to say what they meant by woman was what the Equality Act meant, which they claimed was legal sex not biological sex. That’s why the Supreme Court was ruling on the Equality Act, which is the law across Britain.

 

[bilby]

If everyone just observes the rules, there’s no issue.

... said every totalitarian dictatorship in history.

Fuck your rules. No rule should exist, nor be respected or obeyed, if it abridges the right to privacy, dignity, safety, or fairness.

If you don't agree, take it up with this guy, who is a champion of those rights for everybody.

 

[seanie]

So you’re saying that females never have a right to spaces free from males?

You have a curious disregard for women and girls.

 

[TomC]

Really?

You think the Pope actually said that?

This is an important question to resolve. If there's one thing atheists should all be able to agree on it's that Papal pronouncements are a reliable guide to morality.

I just find it interesting. Being an American it's possible that he used such slang. I wouldn't expect it from a native speaker of most languages, especially romance languages.
Tom

 

[TomC]

So you’re saying that females never have a right to spaces free from males?

You have a curious disregard for women and girls.

I don't see it as curious so much as woke. Trans people are about the top of the stack in political correctness, therefore anything that they don't like is proof that they are victims of transphobic bigotry.
Tom

 

[seanie]

That’ll be why the Scottish Prison Service sent a double rapist to a women’s prison because they identified as a trans woman.

After being charged.

Because if the male double rapist who identified as a trans woman was sent to a male prison, it might have made him sad.

And we wouldn’t want a rapist to be sad, now would we?

 

[bilby]

So you’re saying that females never have a right to spaces free from males?

You have a curious disregard for women and girls.

I am saying that no such right ever existed nor needed to exist, and that if you want to introduce such a right, we can only do so by abridging the rights to privacy and dignity that you yourself claim to be paramount.

I apologise if pointing out the mutual incompatibility of the rights you wish to enforce causes you discomfort, but the problem you have is not with me, nor with transwomen, but with basic logic.

You can, of course, lobby for females to have a legal right to spaces free from males, but you should be aware that to do so you must compromise the right of everyone to privacy and dignity.

You can want mutually exclusive things, but you can't have them.

 

[seanie]

You’re confused about what country I’m in.

The Equality Act 2010 gives a right to female only spaces in some circumstances. A failure to provide them can be unlawful.

So I don’t need to lobby for anything.

The current legal position is just fine.

Organisations just need to comply.

 

[laughing dog]

That’ll be why the Scottish Prison Service sent a double rapist to a women’s prison because they identified as a trans woman.

After being charged.

Because if the male double rapist who identified as a trans woman was sent to a male prison, it might have made him sad.

And we wouldn’t want a rapist to be sad, now would we?

It is possible if the male double rapist who identified as a trans woman was sent to a male prison, it might have made him raped by other inmates.

How would have been treating him with dignity, respect, safety, and fairness?

 

[seanie]

Rapists typically go on segregation wings.

Are you seriously suggesting sending the double rapist into a women’s prison would be the right thing to do?

Give your head a wobble.

 

[TomC]

That’ll be why the Scottish Prison Service sent a double rapist to a women’s prison because they identified as a trans woman.

After being charged.

Because if the male double rapist who identified as a trans woman was sent to a male prison, it might have made him sad.

And we wouldn’t want a rapist to be sad, now would we?

We had a similar episode here in the USA.

A guy who was convicted of sexual assault on a ten year old girl came out as trans upon conviction. And while "she" was twenty six at the time of conviction, "she" was two weeks shy of "her" eighteenth birthday at the time of the crime. State law required that "she" be incarcerated in a facility for juvenile females.
Talk about gaming the system.
Tom

 

[WAB]

That’ll be why the Scottish Prison Service sent a double rapist to a women’s prison because they identified as a trans woman.

After being charged.

Because if the male double rapist who identified as a trans woman was sent to a male prison, it might have made him sad.

And we wouldn’t want a rapist to be sad, now would we?

We had a similar episode here in the USA.

A guy who was convicted of sexual assault on a ten year old girl came out as trans upon conviction. And while "she" was twenty six at the time of conviction, "she" was two weeks shy of "her" eighteenth birthday at the time of the crime. State law required that "she" be incarcerated in a facility for juvenile females.
Talk about gaming the system.
Tom

I'm not in the least surprised.

 

[seanie]

Accurately ID should obviate the need for any genital checks.

What, we are all going to have to carry identity cards to use a bathroom now? What is this, 1984?

And any ID either requires a genital check in order to be issued; Or does not meet your criterion of "accuracy".

People just observe the rules and everything is good.

Freedom is slavery.

Have you ever heard of birth certificates?

 

[Bomb#20]

Yeah, that was pretty stupid.

Here's the new pope's take on woke.

View attachment 50500

His Holiness hasn't been in office long enough to have commented on a lot of random issues. So that's most likely something he said before he was elevated, which means he had not yet become infallible.

 

[laughing dog]

Rapists typically go on segregation wings.

Unless you mean in isolation, that would not prevent rape.

If you mean in isolation, how is that treating someone with respect, dignity, safety and fairness.

Are you seriously suggesting sending the double rapist into a women’s prison would be the right thing to do?

That’s a pretty desperate straw man. Just pointing out that your standard of treating everyone with respect, dignity, safety, and fairness is unattainable in this case.

 

[seanie]

So should the double rapist have been sent to the women’s prison to protect their dignity, safety, and fairness?

You avoided answering the question.

 

[Politesse]

"If you define sex as strictly chromosomal". So who the bejesus is proposing to define sex that way? Your obsession with chromosomes is a "killer-amendment" you keep trying to graft into your opponents' position precisely to make it untenable. Neither British law nor any of the posters here define sex as XX vs. XY.

What rubric does British law propose?

The established legal position is that biological sex is a material fact that can be established.

It comes down to reproductive pathways, male or female, the binary of sex.

That is not an answer. That is a promise of an answer that neither you nor this ruling is capable of providing, because your confidence is based on ignorance of rather than knowledge about reproductive science.