Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[seanie]

The younger is a gay not queer, lesbian who doesn’t do dick

I’d be surprised if she did dick.

Why?

Because the orthodoxy is that gender identity is what matters, not biological sex.

Lesbians who reject males identifying as females are akin to racists according to the former chief of Stonewall UK.

 

[seanie]

If the UK Supreme Court judgement had gone the other way, it would have been unlawful to exclude males with a certificate saying they’re female, from lesbian associations.

How homophobic would that have been?

No right of self association for same sex attracted people.

 

[seanie]

We’ve seen how that’s played out in Australia.

 

[Toni]

And neither is down to me.

I’m certain that is true. But up thread you said that kids are convinced they are trans by adults.

I can see how it would be difficult to reconcile who you thought your kids were with who they really are.

 

[Toni]

Well Jimmy’s not to be taken seriously, so it’s all fine.

I generally think Jimmy Higgins has a good head on his shoulders.

 

[laughing dog]

The younger is a gay not queer, lesbian who doesn’t do dick

I’d be surprised if she did dick.

Why?

Because the orthodoxy is that gender identity is what matters, not biological sex.

Lesbians who reject males identifying as females are akin to racists according to the former chief of Stonewall UK.

If my limited understanding of lesbians is accurate, I thought they abjured from doing dick or tom or harry or penis in general.

 

[seanie]

Both my kids went through what was probably the peak of trans ideology. One embraced it, one rejected it.

 

[seanie]

Well Jimmy’s not to be taken seriously, so it’s all fine.

I generally think Jimmy Higgins has a good head on his shoulders.

Well he’s displayed a commonplace, casual, misogynistic failure to consider this issue in any depth.

As evidenced by his contributions.

 

[seanie]

The younger is a gay not queer, lesbian who doesn’t do dick

I’d be surprised if she did dick.

Why?

Because the orthodoxy is that gender identity is what matters, not biological sex.

Lesbians who reject males identifying as females are akin to racists according to the former chief of Stonewall UK.

If my limited understanding of lesbians is accurate, I thought they abjured from doing dick or tom or harry or penis in general.

Then you haven’t been paying attention to trans activists, who very much insist lesbians should do dick.

It’s transphobic not to.

Apparently.

 

[Toni]

Mind you, I think bringing up your relationship with your own kids in support of some argument on an internet forum is very inappropriate.

He brought them up as evidence that he has some real life experience on the subject.

As opposed to you ivory tower activists who "just know" because you read about it in a book by an author you just know is an expert.
Tom

Wow. So you think that academics live in ivory towers? Wow.

Academics get to deal with 18-23 year olds that their parent really don’t know how to deal with or want to deal with anymore. It’s just an older version of middle school. You love them like crazy but there’s a whole lot of transitioning going on. That transition from kid to adult is rough from all sides of the equation, and that’s if things go really really well. Every prof and counselor—and maintenance staff at any university has my deep respect, unless they’re sleeping with students.

I don’t always agree with Politesse—or anyone, for that matter—but I know he has insight that I don’t have

 

[Politesse]

Well, not mention I grew up in a damn hovel, and moved all of twenty miles away...

 

[TomC]

Academics get to deal with 18-23 year olds that their parent really don’t know how to deal with or want to deal with anymore.

We are talking about a parent of a trans child and a lesbian.
Jimmy Higgins said "No you didn't". Politesse said "That's inappropriate" to mention.
Then the ivory tower dumbass tells us about his own childhood in "a damned hovel", as though that is more appropriate in a thread about trans people!
WTF?
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Tom, you bring up that ivory tower bullshit in every thread we're both in. It never made sense and it still doesn't.

 

[laughing dog]

The younger is a gay not queer, lesbian who doesn’t do dick

I’d be surprised if she did dick.

Why?

Because the orthodoxy is that gender identity is what matters, not biological sex.

Lesbians who reject males identifying as females are akin to racists according to the former chief of Stonewall UK.

If my limited understanding of lesbians is accurate, I thought they abjured from doing dick or tom or harry or penis in general.

Then you haven’t been paying attention to trans activists, who very much insist lesbians should do dick.

It’s transphobic not to.

Apparently.

Is that yoy, Jimmy Higgins?

 

[Bomb#20]

And the huge rise in kids identifying as trans is a social contagion caused by adults lying to children about “being born in the wrong body”.

Why did you do that to your child since you disagree with it so much?

He didn't say he was the adult lying to children about it. And your interpretation of what he said really isn't the way social contagion works. Teenagers tend to be a lot less influenced by their parents than by their peer group. Some teacher or youtube influencer or other random adult could lie to some child about “being born in the wrong body”. She might not even be the particular child the random adult was talking about -- maybe he was lecturing her about tolerating boys in the girls' room or something. The kid could latch onto the idea for any reason -- maybe because she's actually trans, maybe because she's autistic, maybe just because she's burning with resentment at archaic societal gender stereotypes, whatever -- and then she spreads the idea among her schoolmates with far greater efficiency than any adult ever could have.

 

[Bomb#20]

So what?

If everyone already knows that they're trans, then what does it matter? All it does is to provide a middle ground where a male who identifies as a transgirl isn't forced to share intimate space with boys... but where female humans are also not forced to share intimate space with male humans.

The only situation in which your objection to having a third space even remotely makes sense is that in which nobody at all knows that the male with gender feelings is a male.

If your objective is acceptance, this is the way to get it. If your objective is domination, this will get in your way.

So you don't care if it gets them killed?

So you don't care if it gets female women killed to allow males into female intimate spaces?

Maybe you find that to be a compelling argument, but I don't.

Just look at reality.

We still have no good evidence of a female-presenting person harming anyone in a women's room and the repeated presenting of serious flawed evidence makes me think there is no good evidence. You're defending against a non-threat. But we have clear evidence of harm to people using the bathroom that matches their birth but not what they present as. The transman doesn't have a penis to rape you with so you're safe, but he very well might end up dead and you don't seem to care. And you will have no good ability to detect when an actual predator walks in. You're running from a fake risk right to a real one.

You don't seem to be paying attention to what Emily writes -- you're arguing against some clueless Republican legislature, not against her. Of course she cares if a transman ends up dead; what she does not seem to care about is if a transman uses a men's room. Haven't you noticed that all her posts are about men in the women's room, not about women in the men's room? You're the only one talking about that. Well, you and those clueless Republican legislatures, who all seem to have bought into the dumbass notion that if we have single-sex spaces for women then it means we also have to have single-sex spaces for men. Not even Republican legislators are dumb enough to think men being a danger to women proves women are also a danger to men, so apparently they think symbolic fairness is more important than real fairness. What can you expect from a bunch of flag-burning-ban enthusiasts? They think protecting a symbol of freedom is more important than protecting freedom.

A ladies' room is, in essence, an affirmative action program -- it's a reservation of a certain number of slots for women because women have been historically discriminated against by men, for about forty million years. I don't expect you to approve of the custom on that account -- you are after all a well-known opponent of affirmative action for principled and perfectly coherent reasons. That isn't the point. The point is, if you were arguing, say, that Berkeley should not have an affirmative action program for black students, you wouldn't do it by arguing "Well, if there are slots reserved for black students then there would also have to be slots reserved for white students. Surely you don't want there to be whites-only slots.", would you? If you made such an argument people would laugh their asses off at you. But that is in effect the argument you are making every time Emily or whoever argues against making women endure co-ed intimate spaces and you reply with yet another "What about transmen?" rejoinder. So give it a rest.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have a trans child.

No you don't.

I have two children, both adults.

The elder is trans, he/him pronouns, changed name, planning to undergo a double mastectomy, and can tear up if JK Rowling is mentioned.

The younger is a gay not queer, lesbian who doesn’t do dick, who goes to radical feminist conferences and has her photograph taken with Maya Forstater and Helen Joyce.

I love them both dearly, but Christmas can be a bit fraught.

You are so much more polite and calm than I would be under the circumstances.
Tom

That certainly is true.

...but I haven't considered anything you've said about yourself being suspect.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well Jimmy’s not to be taken seriously, so it’s all fine.

I generally think Jimmy Higgins has a good head on his shoulders.

Well he’s displayed a commonplace, casual, misogynistic failure to consider this issue in any depth.

As evidenced by his contributions.

You apparently didn't read my posts, but that is okay. I get that you aren't here to actually converse, but rather to disseminate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And the huge rise in kids identifying as trans is a social contagion caused by adults lying to children about “being born in the wrong body”.

Why did you do that to your child since you disagree with it so much?

He didn't say he was the adult lying to children about it. And your interpretation of what he said really isn't the way social contagion works. Teenagers tend to be a lot less influenced by their parents than by their peer group. Some teacher or youtube influencer or other random adult could lie to some child about “being born in the wrong body”. She might not even be the particular child the random adult was talking about -- maybe he was lecturing her about tolerating boys in the girls' room or something. The kid could latch onto the idea for any reason -- maybe because she's actually trans, maybe because she's autistic, maybe just because she's burning with resentment at archaic societal gender stereotypes, whatever -- and then she spreads the idea among her schoolmates with far greater efficiency than any adult ever could have.

Seeing that we've seen an increase in "autism" diagnoses around the same time as younger people suggesting they are transgender... is this an indication of any actual change in people? We know autism diagnoses increased because they put everything in the spectrum under that title. Also, because it is treated differently today, children with autism aren't relegated to the category of being a bad student with bad behavior, which means we see them more up front. Admitting being transgender today isn't nearly as outcast as it was not 30 years ago, though it is lagging being gay by at least a couple decades. Some might think they are and move into that category, but then realize that isn't who they are. Gender dysphoria isn't a straight forward thing.

"Transgenders" are like "illegal immigrants" and "dangerous vaccines". A problem that is being concocted to distract some of the public.

 

[TSwizzle]

"Transgenders" are like "illegal immigrants" and "dangerous vaccines". A problem that is being concocted to distract some of the public.

Male bovine excrement. The problem transgenders cause women is not concocted.