Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

Hamas are Gazans, but Gazans are not necessarily members of Hamas.

Gazan leadership has been Hamas for almost twenty years.
What makes you think that the other Gazans have a problem with their leadership?

The fact Hamas refuses to have an election.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

. That involves malnourishing the Gazan population which includes children.

No. The GHF approach isn't starving the people.

I don't support the starving of children. But you know that

But we cannot becausr you defend the very policy that does lead to starvation (ser above).

You are the one defending the starvation--supporting the UN approach that's now revealed to have a 90% failure rate.

 

[laughing dog]

No. The GHF approach isn't starving the people.

I said malnourishing.

You are the one defending the starvation--supporting the UN approach that's now revealed to have a 90% failure rate.

First, blockading food is the topic
Second, provide a link for your 90% failure rate.

 

[TomC]

Hamas are Gazans, but Gazans are not necessarily members of Hamas.

Gazan leadership has been Hamas for almost twenty years.
What makes you think that the other Gazans have a problem with their leadership?

The fact Hamas refuses to have an election.

Why do you believe that?

Your claim is that Gazan leadership refused to have an election. I see no reason to believe that.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Hamas are Gazans, but Gazans are not necessarily members of Hamas.

Gazan leadership has been Hamas for almost twenty years.
What makes you think that the other Gazans have a problem with their leadership?

The fact Hamas refuses to have an election.

Why do you believe that?

Your claim is that Gazan leadership refused to have an election. I see no reason to believe that.
Tom

Hamas has boycotted every election since 2007. That’s why.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't support the starving of children. But you know that

If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.

Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!

So kids are starving in Gaza. Got it.

He's not saying that there are any members of the set, just that the set is due to Gaza, not Israel.

You're defending the system that lost 90% of the food.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

90% got intercepted in Gaza. That's what Hamas hoarded.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

These days I wouldn't trust the UN to say if the sun was up. But it's irrelevant anyway, the UN admitted it was intercepted, just didn't identify the interceptors--of course they didn't, the only people in the area that wear uniforms aren't the ones doing the intercepting.

But the Israeli military never found proof that the Palestinian militant group had systematically stolen aid from the United Nations, the biggest supplier of emergency assistance to Gaza for most of the war, according to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis involved in the matter.

In fact, the Israeli military officials said, the U.N. aid delivery system, which Israel derided and undermined, was largely effective in providing food to Gaza’s desperate and hungry population.

I wonder if those Israeli military officials are "supporting Hamas" or antisemites?

Or are being taken out of context.

The aid went to Hamas. Hamas sold it to the people to maintain control and make money. Thus the people did have enough food. And you're going after Israel on what you now know to be a false pretext.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think that the main problem is Islamic supremacists.
Tom

As opposed to the Jewish supremacists that created the open air prison that spawned Hamas?

Hey, I just went over this with our cow. Egypt created it.

 

[ZiprHead]

I think that the main problem is Islamic supremacists.
Tom

As opposed to the Jewish supremacists that created the open air prison that spawned Hamas?

Hey, I just went over this with our cow. Egypt created it.

Israel built the first fences and then the walls.

 

[laughing dog]

Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

90% got intercepted in Gaza. That's what Hamas hoarded.

How does blockaded food - food that is not in Gaza (that’s what blockade means) - get intercepted in Gaza?

And provide a link to the source of your 90%

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

These days I wouldn't trust the UN to say if the sun was up. But it's irrelevant anyway, the UN admitted it was intercepted, just didn't identify the interceptors--of course they didn't, the only people in the area that wear uniforms aren't the ones doing the intercepting.

The report is about Israeli military officers, not the UN. The IDF is not in the UN, so why are talking about the UN?

But the Israeli military never found proof that the Palestinian militant group had systematically stolen aid from the United Nations, the biggest supplier of emergency assistance to Gaza for most of the war, according to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis involved in the matter.

In fact, the Israeli military officials said, the U.N. aid delivery system, which Israel derided and undermined, was largely effective in providing food to Gaza’s desperate and hungry population.

I wonder if those Israeli military officials are "supporting Hamas" or antisemites?

Or are being taken out of context.

The aid went to Hamas. Hamas sold it to the people to maintain control and make money. Thus the people did have enough food. And you're going after Israel on what you now know to be a false pretext.

Not according to the Israeli military officers in that report. Are you saying they lied or that you know more than them?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If Israel ended Gaza tonight, and everyone was killed.... it was Hama's military policies that left Gaza massacred.

If Gazans stopped their assault on Israel this could all be over by the end of the week.

But Gazans won't.

And so it will be a continuation of the intergenerational conflict between Zionists and their Abrahamic neighbors.
Tom

Gazans are not assaulting Israel. Israel is assaulting Gazans.

You seem to be living in Bizarro world.

Gaza is definitely assaulting Israel. Not just on 10/7 but it continues to this day.

Or is stuff like this acceptable?

New footage of Evyatar David cleared for publication: Hamas forced him to dig his own grave

www.ynetnews.com

Evyatar David's family has approved the release of new footage distributed by Hamas on Saturday evening. The video shows, among other things, David with a shovel in his hand, digging his own grave under the direction of his captors.

And if you want to see actual starvation in Gaza look at the hostages.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As opposed to the Jewish supremacists that created the open air prison that spawned Hamas?

It was Islamic supremacists that created the Gazan wall. They kept sending violent suicide bombers until Israel spent a shit ton to wall them out.

It's too bad that Muslim supremacists couldn't stand the idea that Jewish refugees had moved in next door. They used violence to get rid of them. And here we are.
Tom

Collective punishment... again.

And I see you have no idea what Geneva means, either. Gaza isn't punishment. Gaza is keeping the problem on the other side of the fence. It's Hamas that keeps bringing the horrors upon their people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. The GHF approach isn't starving the people.

I said malnourishing.

You are the one defending the starvation--supporting the UN approach that's now revealed to have a 90% failure rate.

First, blockading food is the topic
Second, provide a link for your 90% failure rate.

Read the links that already exist before demanding new ones. That 90% is right from the horse's mouth (although they are just giving numbers, not the percentage.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think that the main problem is Islamic supremacists.
Tom

As opposed to the Jewish supremacists that created the open air prison that spawned Hamas?

Hey, I just went over this with our cow. Egypt created it.

Israel built the first fences and then the walls.

Egypt built the refugee camps and the bases used to attack Israel long before Israel built anything.

 

[laughing dog]

No. The GHF approach isn't starving the people.

I said malnourishing.

You are the one defending the starvation--supporting the UN approach that's now revealed to have a 90% failure rate.

First, blockading food is the topic
Second, provide a link for your 90% failure rate.

Read the links that already exist before demanding new ones. That 90% is right from the horse's mouth (although they are just giving numbers, not the percentage.)

A failure rate is a ratio of “failure” to “ attempt”. You need to define “failure” and “attempt”.

Without a link, your claim is unconvincing. As a long term moderator, you ought to know and model expected behavior. Waving your hand that it is in some unspecified link in an unspecified post, while your MO, can be taken your claim is unsubstantiated bs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

90% got intercepted in Gaza. That's what Hamas hoarded.

How does blockaded food - food that is not in Gaza (that’s what blockade means) - get intercepted in Gaza?

You are continuing to assume "facts" clearly contrary to reality.

You claim blockade. The UN claimed blockade. The UN finally admitted a 90% intercept rate of stuff that had already crossed the border. The border isn't the problem, the distribution is the problem.

And provide a link to the source of your 90%

Read the thread. I linked to the UN page with the data.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

These days I wouldn't trust the UN to say if the sun was up. But it's irrelevant anyway, the UN admitted it was intercepted, just didn't identify the interceptors--of course they didn't, the only people in the area that wear uniforms aren't the ones doing the intercepting.

The report is about Israeli military officers, not the UN. The IDF is not in the UN, so why are talking about the UN?

<thwack!>

The UN admits the aid didn't reach it's destination. The IDF can't conclusively prove it was stolen by Hamas but how could something on that scale operate in Gaza without Hamas running it?

But the Israeli military never found proof that the Palestinian militant group had systematically stolen aid from the United Nations, the biggest supplier of emergency assistance to Gaza for most of the war, according to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis involved in the matter.

In fact, the Israeli military officials said, the U.N. aid delivery system, which Israel derided and undermined, was largely effective in providing food to Gaza’s desperate and hungry population.

I wonder if those Israeli military officials are "supporting Hamas" or antisemites?

Or are being taken out of context.

The aid went to Hamas. Hamas sold it to the people to maintain control and make money. Thus the people did have enough food. And you're going after Israel on what you now know to be a false pretext.

Not according to the Israeli military officers in that report. Are you saying they lied or that you know more than them?

I'm saying the words are being taken out of context by those who wish to continue to blame Israel.

The facts are simple:
90% got diverted after crossing the border.
Nobody can actually prove who did the diversion.

Thus a reporter asked a loaded question that produced the answer you are quoting.

 

[laughing dog]

Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

90% got intercepted in Gaza. That's what Hamas hoarded.

How does blockaded food - food that is not in Gaza (that’s what blockade means) - get intercepted in Gaza?

You are continuing to assume "facts" clearly contrary to reality.

You claim blockade.

Israel claimed blockade

>Read the thread. I linked to the UN page with the data
.

How about a post number? I’m not searching through your posts.

I'm saying the words are being taken out of context by those who wish to continue to blame Israel.

The facts are simple:
90% got diverted after crossing the border.
Nobody can actually prove who did the diversion.

Thus a reporter asked a loaded question that produced the answer you are quoting.

You’ve refused to provide any evidence that contradicts the Israeli military officers. You rely on an alleged unsourced (at this writing), undefined and self-constructed statistic and supposition to rebut the Israeli military officer's conclusions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Israel ended Gaza tonight, and everyone was killed.... it was Hama's military policies that left Gaza massacred.

If Gazans stopped their assault on Israel this could all be over by the end of the week.

But Gazans won't.

And so it will be a continuation of the intergenerational conflict between Zionists and their Abrahamic neighbors.
Tom

That didn't answer my question regarding the limits (if any) of reciprocity.

There are no questions in the post.

But as for your vaguely implied question. How about these?
Gazans stop attacking Israel.
Gazans stop starving their kids.
Gazans stop lying to the international media.
Gazans stop supporting Muslim supremacists and terrorists.
Tom

I've emphasized the question in bold to manage the "vagueness" of my explicit question.

Netanyahu's military polciies are leaving little of Gaza left to go home to. That is also an "ethnic cleansing" thing.

It's Hamas' military policies that are leaving little left of Gaza. Full stop.

How do you know when you need to stop reading the thread... when you know the exact sentence that'll lead someone's response.

If Israel ended Gaza tonight, and everyone was killed.... it was Hama's military policies that left Gaza massacred.

But wait... TomC didn't say that... at least not yet. So, the question is, to TomC what level of Israeli retaliation would supercede the moral authority created by Hamas' massacre on October 7?

 

[ZiprHead]

Gaza is definitely assaulting Israel. Not just on 10/7 but it continues to this day.

Or is stuff like this acceptable?

New footage of Evyatar David cleared for publication: Hamas forced him to dig his own grave

www.ynetnews.com

Evyatar David's family has approved the release of new footage distributed by Hamas on Saturday evening. The video shows, among other things, David with a shovel in his hand, digging his own grave under the direction of his captors.

And if you want to see actual starvation in Gaza look at the hostages.

He blames Netanyahu.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't support the starving of children. But you know that

If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.

Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!

So kids are starving in Gaza. Got it.

He's not saying that there are any members of the set, just that the set is due to Gaza, not Israel.

I'm pretty certain he blames Bill Buckner's bobble on the Gazans.

You're defending the system that lost 90% of the food.

The fuck I am. What is wrong with you? Add any sense nuance in a position and Loren slaps a bazillion positions on you.

I'm making the statement that people like TomC recognize that children in Gaza are starving. Justify this shit all you want. I won't justify Hamas' actions and I won't justify starvation.