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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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No, what you are looking at is what comes out of the dog’s ass.
No. I'm recognizing the deception.
There are pictures of malnourished people. Both the UN and MSF report a large increase in malnutrition rates in children based on large samples.
At this point I don't care what the UN and MSF say, neither are remotely credible.

What's absolutely damning is that Hamas can't find them.
All their cases (12, I wasn't aware of some of them) have other medical causes.

With those reports along with a quarter of a year blockade of food and medicine followed by a resumption of 1/3 as much aid allowed in (IDF numbers), it only makes sense to rational thinkers that malnutrition substantially increased.
Check your source--is it truly IDF numbers, or UN numbers? Because 1/3 is about the percent of what's coming in that goes via the UN.

Denial that the gov’t of Israel’s blockade caused malnutrition is unbelievable. Such denials reduce credibility to less than zero.
One can sanely argue that malnutrition is the cost of such a legitimate tactic of war. It may not convince some, but it is honest and grounded firmly in reality.
If there really was malnutrition I find it utterly unbelievable that Hamas could find 12 fake cases and zero real cases.


Your denial is neither. It is incredibly insulting that any person with even a shred of integrity and rationality would expect any sane thinking person to accept such denials as valid.

Which makes me worried for you.
You still haven't addressed the issue of why Hamas can't find what is supposedly everywhere.
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And you think that makes those 12 cases go away?

I was only aware of four but the point remains: everything's fake, nothing's real. The exact number of fakes isn't that important, the fact that Hamas can't find a real one should be deafening.
So because the children were already sick makes denying them food okay??? That's some Nazi shit right there.
 
When expat Palestinians complain about the situation in Gaza, I have never heard them direct most of their complaints toward Hamas. They used to complain about PLO in the 1980'ies a bit. But now their hatred seems utterly and completely directed towards Israel. That's a pretty extreme shift in radicalisation. We can debate all day why this is. But Gazans are not purely innocent victims here. Just like all Germans weren't innocent victims of Hitlers policies. Nor war the ISIS fighters innoncent victims of ISIS. No organisation can survive without plenty of grass root support.
Welcome to the Dr. Zoidberg tilt-a-whirl, where posts swing quickly back and forth between 'I feel for the Gazans, they are the victims of Hamas in this' and 'The Gazans are complicit with the crimes committed by Hamas against Israel'. Please make certain you are firmly strapped in, because this ride will jerk you all over more than riding an angry bull.

It must be difficult for you, with the world not being as simple as good guys and bad guys
It is you who are dividing this into good guys vs bad guys. Most of the rest of us find there are no good guys at all in this situation.

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.
 

You make no sense. We have nation states, so we can act as a single unit in foreign policy. That's just how we have chosen to organise our world. Calling it collective punishment is absurd. But sure... I am the guy who struggles with reality... lol
I have no idea what that word salad means.
Your lack of understanding doesn't make it wrong.

The world consists of nation states. We do not consider it punishment when the inhabitants of a nation state are harmed by a war the nation state is engaged in. And Hamas/Gaza sure waddles and quacks like a nation state.
Gaza is a prison. Nothing more. Created by Israel.
 

You make no sense. We have nation states, so we can act as a single unit in foreign policy. That's just how we have chosen to organise our world. Calling it collective punishment is absurd. But sure... I am the guy who struggles with reality... lol
I have no idea what that word salad means.
Your lack of understanding doesn't make it wrong.

The world consists of nation states. We do not consider it punishment when the inhabitants of a nation state are harmed by a war the nation state is engaged in. And Hamas/Gaza sure waddles and quacks like a nation state.
Gaza is a prison. Nothing more. Created by Israel.

No, it's not. Great that we cleared that up.
 
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Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

My bad. I guess all the hostages were just Israelis out on a bender in Gaza and got lost? I sure hope they get in touch when they sober up, and we can sort this whole thing out

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.

And you're a tin foil hat loony.

Are you going to accuse the Jews of eating Christian babies next?

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up
 




Yes, the settlers have stepped up their activities on the west bank.

Settlement expansion has been going on for decades. It’s not just an uptick in activity—it’s part of a long-standing state policy that began after 1967* and has accelerated under right-wing governments. *Or one could argue it started in 1949**. ** Or the 15th century BCE. etc etc.

No, it's not. Israel is a democracy. There's a multitude of factors involved. A major problem is that the Jewish settlers are mavericks doing their own thing, cleverly abusing the intent if the law.

Its one of those situations where its easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Netanyahu has been allied to the religious nutcases who promote the settlers. Which have allowed the settlers to be more brazen.

But he's heading a coalition government. Netanyahu can't just do what he wants. He's got to get a majority of the parliament/Knesset with him. Which is difficult for him when trying to give land to the settlers. But sometimes it happens



They're doing it while the Israeli government are busy elsewhere.

The government is not “too busy to notice”—it actively approves, funds, and protects settlements. The latest cabinet decision (see the AP and Times of Israel links above) shows that Netanyahu’s coalition explicitly supports settlement growth, not just as a side effect, but as a central policy goal.

You are conflating the different parts of Israels policy. As Israeli citizens they need to be protected. Even when they behave like cunts.


Yes, Netanyahu's party. Not all Jews. Netanyahu is at he head of a coalition. Most Israelis do not support settler expansion






They're not good people. I won't defend them.

But earlier you defended them as Jews pushed out of urban centers, not as religious extremists. That inconsistency matters—because the settlement movement isn’t just a handful of radicals. It has state sanction and broad political support.

I didn't defend them. Someone doing a bad thing for economic reasons, is still doing a bad thing.

It doesn't have broad political support. It has had support by the sitting prime minister. Which is nice. But most Israelis are smart enough to understand the policy will only lead to more conflict




Almost all other Jews hate them.

That’s not borne out by the data. Surveys consistently show a divided public: for example, a 2023 Israel Democracy Institute poll found 40% of Jewish Israelis support settlement expansion, 35% oppose, and the rest are neutral or unsure. Unsurprisingly, support is strongest among the religious and nationalist right—the very parties in Netanyahu’s government. That’s not “almost all Jews hate them”; it’s a society deeply split.

That depends completely how those questions are posed.

Another big reason the settlers are hated is because they often smell. They often have dumb religious rules about washing and wear wool suits in the desert heat. And are poor, so they have to travel on crowded busses.

Was that in your survey data?




Because they’re the source of so much friction with the Palestinians.

Settler behavior is a major driver of friction, yes. But the real issue is systemic: for decades, Israeli governments have not only tolerated but actively enabled settlement expansion. This doesn’t excuse violence on either side—but it means the problem isn’t just a few “bad apples.” It’s a state-backed project that undermines any chance of a Palestinian state.

Its just not true. The Israeli government has managed to push through some Israeli settler expansion bills. You make it sound like a govornment policy

If expanding the settlements was official Israeli policy, they'd just take it over and get it over with. Israel controls the west bank. There's nothing to stop them. And they did win the Six day war fair and square. They have every right to take it over permanently.

How about giving Israel some credit when they are acting nice to the Palestinians?

Or to put it another way. If Jews are criticised and vilified no matter what they do, why would they bother treating the Palestinians fairly?

Israel has been extremely well behaved in the current war. But they only get shit and are accused of rediculous stuff like genocide. When the propaganda war is this skewed against them, why wouldn't they stop caring eventually?

But it's not like the Palestinians on the west bank doesn't retaliate. Which is why the IDF is forced to get involved. They'd rather not. Because there's a war on elsewhere

The IDF isn’t reluctantly dragged in—it’s ordered in. Those orders come from a government whose stated policy is to “thwart a Palestinian state” (Netanyahu’s own words in the Times of Israel link). The IDF is not a monolith; like Israeli society itself, it reflects a range of political views. But as an institution, it carries out government directives. Under this government, those directives overwhelmingly support settlement expansion and suppression of Palestinian resistance. That’s not a temporary diversion from “the real war”—it’s part of a long-term strategy.

If you think Israel wants to have troops anywhere but in Gaza right now, then you don't understand how wars work. The settler stuff is NOT what Israel wants to have to divert troops to right now.
 

You make no sense. We have nation states, so we can act as a single unit in foreign policy. That's just how we have chosen to organise our world. Calling it collective punishment is absurd. But sure... I am the guy who struggles with reality... lol
I have no idea what that word salad means.
Your lack of understanding doesn't make it wrong.

The world consists of nation states. We do not consider it punishment when the inhabitants of a nation state are harmed by a war the nation state is engaged in. And Hamas/Gaza sure waddles and quacks like a nation state.
Gaza is a prison. Nothing more. Created by Israel.

No, it's not. Great that we cleared that up.
,
Libel snipped. Post reported, again,
 

You make no sense. We have nation states, so we can act as a single unit in foreign policy. That's just how we have chosen to organise our world. Calling it collective punishment is absurd. But sure... I am the guy who struggles with reality... lol
I have no idea what that word salad means.
Your lack of understanding doesn't make it wrong.

The world consists of nation states. We do not consider it punishment when the inhabitants of a nation state are harmed by a war the nation state is engaged in. And Hamas/Gaza sure waddles and quacks like a nation state.
Gaza is a prison. Nothing more. Created by Israel.
There are several things your post leaves out. Gaza is indeed treated as a lower class area, in many ways, but there was the suicide bombing epidemic that kept repeating for over a year that precipitated the Israel response. When you keep getting weapons lobbed at you, some people becoming reactionaries isn't unusual. Of course, Israel has always had reactionaries. The West wasn't always so chummy with the nation of Israel.

That all said, limiting access to Israel didn't prevent the 10/7 massacre. And it didn't take much technology to perpetrate what happened that day.

Israel is in an unenviable position of having mercy responded in kind with violence. Hamas' goal is to disrupt, nothing else. They don't want peace and they are incapable of following through on the mission statement. Walls only worked for so long. And 20 or so months of bombardment hasn't ended Hamas. As long as Iran backs Hamas, this isn't going to stop. Which makes what is going on right now seem fruitless and needless and counterproductive.
 




Yes, the settlers have stepped up their activities on the west bank.

Settlement expansion has been going on for decades. It’s not just an uptick in activity—it’s part of a long-standing state policy that began after 1967* and has accelerated under right-wing governments. *Or one could argue it started in 1949**. ** Or the 15th century BCE. etc etc.

No, it's not. Israel is a democracy. There's a multitude of factors involved. A major problem is that the Jewish settlers are mavericks doing their own thing, cleverly abusing the intent if the law.

Its one of those situations where its easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Netanyahu has been allied to the religious nutcases who promote the settlers. Which have allowed the settlers to be more brazen.

But he's heading a coalition government. Netanyahu can't just do what he wants. He's got to get a majority of the parliament/Knesset with him. Which is difficult for him when trying to give land to the settlers. But sometimes it happens

This misrepresents reality. Settlement construction requires state permits, planning approvals, and infrastructure (roads, electricity, water, security). These are provided by the Israeli state. Even so-called “illegal outposts” are often retroactively legalized by the government. If settlers were merely “rogue actors,” the state could dismantle settlements (as Israel did in Gaza in 2005). Instead, successive governments have expanded them.

They're doing it while the Israeli government are busy elsewhere.

The government is not “too busy to notice”—it actively approves, funds, and protects settlements. The latest cabinet decision (see the AP and Times of Israel links above) shows that Netanyahu’s coalition explicitly supports settlement growth, not just as a side effect, but as a central policy goal.

You are conflating the different parts of Israels policy. As Israeli citizens they need to be protected. Even when they behave like cunts.


Yes, Netanyahu's party. Not all Jews. Netanyahu is at he head of a coalition. Most Israelis do not support settler expansion

Those are misleading weasley words. A plurality of Israelis are not anti-settlement. Instead, a plurality are pro-settlement. As already cited, 40% pro, 35% against. The rest undecided. You ought not then oversimplify that into most do not support in order to make it look like most are against. That’s why pro-settlement parties consistently win enough seats to form governments.* Saying “most don’t support” ignores how parliamentary politics works: a large enough minority (30–40%) can dominate policy if they hold coalition leverage or, as in this case, there are also many undecideds.

* that and the fact that the last best popular opposition was assassinated.

They're not good people. I won't defend them.

But earlier you defended them as Jews pushed out of urban centers, not as religious extremists. That inconsistency matters—because the settlement movement isn’t just a handful of radicals. It has state sanction and broad political support.

I didn't defend them. Someone doing a bad thing for economic reasons, is still doing a bad thing.

It doesn't have broad political support. It has had support by the sitting prime minister. Which is nice. But most Israelis are smart enough to understand the policy will only lead to more conflict

see above.

Almost all other Jews hate them.

That’s not borne out by the data. Surveys consistently show a divided public: for example, a 2023 Israel Democracy Institute poll found 40% of Jewish Israelis support settlement expansion, 35% oppose, and the rest are neutral or unsure. Unsurprisingly, support is strongest among the religious and nationalist right—the very parties in Netanyahu’s government. That’s not “almost all Jews hate them”; it’s a society deeply split.

That depends completely how those questions are posed.

Another big reason the settlers are hated is because they often smell. They often have dumb religious rules about washing and wear wool suits in the desert heat. And are poor, so they have to travel on crowded busses.

Was that in your survey data?

That is an irrelevant distraction.

Because they’re the source of so much friction with the Palestinians.

Settler behavior is a major driver of friction, yes. But the real issue is systemic: for decades, Israeli governments have not only tolerated but actively enabled settlement expansion. This doesn’t excuse violence on either side—but it means the problem isn’t just a few “bad apples.” It’s a state-backed project that undermines any chance of a Palestinian state.

Its just not true. The Israeli government has managed to push through some Israeli settler expansion bills. You make it sound like a govornment policy

If expanding the settlements was official Israeli policy, they'd just take it over and get it over with. Israel controls the west bank.

False dichotomy. Israel has pursued a policy of “creeping annexation”: building settlements, expanding jurisdiction, and fragmenting Palestinian areas while stopping short of formal annexation (to avoid global backlash and maintain U.S. aid). Just because Israel hasn’t annexed everything doesn’t mean it isn’t official policy. It means the policy is incremental, balancing domestic goals with international pressure.

There's nothing to stop them. And they did win the Six day war fair and square. They have every right to take it over permanently.

International law is clear here: military conquest does not grant sovereignty. UN Security Council Resolution 242 (1967), which the U.S. itself drafted, calls for withdrawal from occupied territories. Every U.S. administration since 1967—Republican and Democrat—has opposed settlement expansion as illegitimate. So “winning a war” is not a legal justification for colonizing territory.

How about giving Israel some credit when they are acting nice to the Palestinians?

I don’t think this is about denying that individual acts of restraint or humanitarian aid occur. The issue is systemic policy, not isolated gestures. When the state continues to authorize settlement construction, subsidize settlers, and deploy the IDF to protect them, those actions outweigh the occasional “credit.” One doesn’t erase the other.

Or to put it another way. If Jews are criticised and vilified no matter what they do, why would they bother treating the Palestinians fairly?

Israel has been extremely well behaved in the current war. But they only get shit and are accused of rediculous stuff like genocide. When the propaganda war is this skewed against them, why wouldn't they stop caring eventually?

Saying Israel is “extremely well behaved” ignores the scale of civilian casualties and displacement that the world is witnessing.

But it's not like the Palestinians on the west bank doesn't retaliate. Which is why the IDF is forced to get involved. They'd rather not. Because there's a war on elsewhere

The IDF isn’t reluctantly dragged in—it’s ordered in. Those orders come from a government whose stated policy is to “thwart a Palestinian state” (Netanyahu’s own words in the Times of Israel link). The IDF is not a monolith; like Israeli society itself, it reflects a range of political views. But as an institution, it carries out government directives. Under this government, those directives overwhelmingly support settlement expansion and suppression of Palestinian resistance. That’s not a temporary diversion from “the real war”—it’s part of a long-term strategy.

If you think Israel wants to have troops anywhere but in Gaza right now, then you don't understand how wars work. The settler stuff is NOT what Israel wants to have to divert troops to right now.

I understand your point, but this is where the logic doesn’t quite hold. If Israel truly didn’t “want” to divert troops to the West Bank right now, then the obvious solution would be to freeze settlement expansion and rein in settler violence so that those forces could be concentrated in Gaza.

But the opposite has happened: Netanyahu himself openly said in January 2024 that he is “proud” to have blocked the establishment of a Palestinian state and that Israel must “control all the territory west of the Jordan” indefinitely. That is not a reluctant diversion—it’s a stated political objective. That isn't any different than now in 2025 or way before the Gaza conflict, going back to 2000, i.e. read the Times of Israel article:
He (Netanyahu) recalls visiting 25 years ago, and saying that “we would do everything to ensure our continued hold on the Land of Israel, to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, to thwart the attempts that existed then — and unfortunately still exist — to try to uproot us from here. Thank God, what I promised — we kept.”


Emphasis added.

This was, of course, 5 years after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin which contributed to the eventual collapse of the Oslo Accords. And it was deacdes prior to the Gaza conflict.

So yes, Israel may tactically prefer to keep all troops focused on Gaza in the short term, but strategically the government has chosen to maintain and even expand its footprint in the West Bank. Those two things can’t both be true: you can’t claim you “don’t want” to use troops there while also advancing policies that require exactly that.
 
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When expat Palestinians complain about the situation in Gaza, I have never heard them direct most of their complaints toward Hamas. They used to complain about PLO in the 1980'ies a bit. But now their hatred seems utterly and completely directed towards Israel. That's a pretty extreme shift in radicalisation. We can debate all day why this is. But Gazans are not purely innocent victims here. Just like all Germans weren't innocent victims of Hitlers policies. Nor war the ISIS fighters innoncent victims of ISIS. No organisation can survive without plenty of grass root support.
Welcome to the Dr. Zoidberg tilt-a-whirl, where posts swing quickly back and forth between 'I feel for the Gazans, they are the victims of Hamas in this' and 'The Gazans are complicit with the crimes committed by Hamas against Israel'. Please make certain you are firmly strapped in, because this ride will jerk you all over more than riding an angry bull.

It must be difficult for you, with the world not being as simple as good guys and bad guys
It is you who are dividing this into good guys vs bad guys. Most of the rest of us find there are no good guys at all in this situation.

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.
But there are INNOCENT people in this scenario, which DrZ seems to forget/ignore.
 

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

My bad. I guess all the hostages were just Israelis out on a bender in Gaza and got lost? I sure hope they get in touch when they sober up, and we can sort this whole thing out

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.

And you're a tin foil hat loony.

Are you going to accuse the Jews of eating Christian babies next?

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up
Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.
 
There never was any starvation in Gaza. I too was initially fooled by the reports.
The first picture we had was admitted to be medical. I saw no reason to think the rest were more honest.

Why do some journalists keep talking about starvation? Perhaps they have an agenda
No need for malice here.

1) You want to have visuals for your reports, you better report what Hamas tells you to. Even if you don't have people directly involved you're still relying on Hamas "press" for your visuals.

2) All media is biased towards the position of their customers. Much more so with video than print. People disagree with you too often, you lose customers. The higher the standards the less wiggle room there will be but uncertainty will go towards the side of your readership and towards the side of presenting problems. They need to be seen as important, else why read/watch? And the cost of a false positive (for example, saying that Israel hit the hospital when it was the IJ rocket mishap) is far, far less than the cost of a false negative (not reporting that Israel hit a hospital if they had done so.)

You're too quick to see malice in situations where the players are just prioritizing self-interest over truth.
 
More collective punishment apologia.
You still haven't established the "punishment" part.

The Gazan population is no more or less responsible for the acts of their leaders than any other nation.
That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Is the population in N Korea resposible for their government?
I didn't say they were responsible, I said it's the same relationship. Nobody is going to call it punishment if the North Korean civilians suffer if the war goes hot again. Why do Gaza civilians have any different status than anyone else's?

We tried to avoid killing any more of the civilians in the Axis powers than we needed to but nobody was saying we can't go after Hitler because not every German elected him.
The city of Dresden would like to have a word with you.
1) Even if Dresden was wrong that doesn't change what I said.

2) There has been so much revisionism I no longer think we have much of a chance of even knowing if it's wrong.

You take it as self-evident the Jews are in the wrong and provide no proof, nor give fair consideration to evidence that you're wrong. Why should we see the-Jew-is-always-wrong as any different than the Jim Crow the-black-is-always-wrong? See why Z keeps using the term "antisemitism"?? I disagree with him on this, I think it's just the result of manipulation rather than true antisemitism, but it sure waddles and quacks.
There has been plenty of proof provided in this thread. You just reject it due to ideological reasons.
Proof? What we are objecting to is the double standard and that's not even being addressed. It's always Israel guilty unless proven innocent. How about the point I keep bringing up about the actions of "IDF snipers". Too much evidence (why do they keep happening in front of rolling cameras??) of improper targets being hit, zero evidence about who did the shooting. Yet you all blindly believe Hamas. Instead of objecting to "antisemitism" how about showing why it doesn't fit--because he's asked repeatedly and it's never addressed.
 
UN's own data, 10% of what the UN actually brings into Gaza reaches it's intended destination.
The same sources say that it is mostly “diverted” to civilians and only a tiny percentage is intercepted by Hamas.
This is a manufactured “problem” perpetuated to justify prolonging the genocide. If sufficient aid was being delivered, there would not be crowds of starving civilians “diverting” food to stay alive.
No, the UN simply lumps all diversion into one category, not attempting to break out how much is Hamas vs how much is civilians.

And there is that rigged question where the IDF spokesman says they do not have proof the armed groups are Hamas, an attempt to pretend it's not Hamas. But could anyone but Hamas be running a large scale diversion?

And note that civilians stealing aid doesn't mean there isn't enough--Hamas is going to charge a high price for what they take.

And if it really is going to the people why does Hamas shit bricks over the GHF, which gets the aid to the people but removes Hamas control over it.
 

I'm going to keep taking a stand against racism in this thread. The moment this site actively defends and protects racists, I'm out of here. Then I should be banned, because this site won't be for me.

I'm going to keep calling out antisemitism in this thread.
I believe it's far more a matter of being manipulated than true hate. It's much easier to paint a lie than to rebut it, so it's inevitable that most lies go unrebutted. To see truth you have to back up and pay attention to which side has a track record of being proven right or proven wrong. And to accept that Israel is right is to accept that there is a horror that's being shoved in our faces about which there's nothing to be done. People routinely fall for the but-we-have-to-do-something arguments--never mind that what is proposed is almost never the right answer.
Irony is dead.
How about addressing it rather than attacking me? The implications of my being right are too horrific to contemplate, thus I must be wrong. Says nothing about whether I'm actually right or wrong. While I have not seen the movie I think the proper comparison is with Don't Look Up.
 
More collective punishment apologia.
You still haven't established the "punishment" part.

The Gazan population is no more or less responsible for the acts of their leaders than any other nation.
That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Is the population in N Korea resposible for their government?
I didn't say they were responsible, I said it's the same relationship. Nobody is going to call it punishment if the North Korean civilians suffer if the war goes hot again. Why do Gaza civilians have any different status than anyone else's?
No, you didn't. JFC, your quote is right there.

We tried to avoid killing any more of the civilians in the Axis powers than we needed to but nobody was saying we can't go after Hitler because not every German elected him.
The city of Dresden would like to have a word with you.
1) Even if Dresden was wrong that doesn't change what I said.

2) There has been so much revisionism I no longer think we have much of a chance of even knowing if it's wrong.

You take it as self-evident the Jews are in the wrong and provide no proof, nor give fair consideration to evidence that you're wrong. Why should we see the-Jew-is-always-wrong as any different than the Jim Crow the-black-is-always-wrong? See why Z keeps using the term "antisemitism"?? I disagree with him on this, I think it's just the result of manipulation rather than true antisemitism, but it sure waddles and quacks.
There has been plenty of proof provided in this thread. You just reject it due to ideological reasons.
Proof? What we are objecting to is the double standard and that's not even being addressed. It's always Israel guilty unless proven innocent. How about the point I keep bringing up about the actions of "IDF snipers". Too much evidence (why do they keep happening in front of rolling cameras??) of improper targets being hit, zero evidence about who did the shooting. Yet you all blindly believe Hamas. Instead of objecting to "antisemitism" how about showing why it doesn't fit--because he's asked repeatedly and it's never addressed.
Israel is not being targeted by a double standard.

We have aid workers coming back saying this is not being done by "snipers" who work from the shadows so they cannot be identified but by Israelis soldiers doing so out in the open.
 

I'm going to keep taking a stand against racism in this thread. The moment this site actively defends and protects racists, I'm out of here. Then I should be banned, because this site won't be for me.

I'm going to keep calling out antisemitism in this thread.
I believe it's far more a matter of being manipulated than true hate. It's much easier to paint a lie than to rebut it, so it's inevitable that most lies go unrebutted. To see truth you have to back up and pay attention to which side has a track record of being proven right or proven wrong. And to accept that Israel is right is to accept that there is a horror that's being shoved in our faces about which there's nothing to be done. People routinely fall for the but-we-have-to-do-something arguments--never mind that what is proposed is almost never the right answer.
Irony is dead.
How about addressing it rather than attacking me? The implications of my being right are too horrific to contemplate, thus I must be wrong. Says nothing about whether I'm actually right or wrong. While I have not seen the movie I think the proper comparison is with Don't Look Up.
How are we to address your bullshit? It's been addressed over and over. You just blow it all off as Hamas propaganda. You constantly dismiss western witnesses or don't address them at all as if they never existed.
 



How about the point I keep bringing up about the actions of "IDF snipers". Too much evidence (why do they keep happening in front of rolling cameras??) of improper targets being hit, zero evidence about who did the shooting.
Post links to this alleged evidence.

Also, which shootings are you claiming have zero evidence of who did the shooting? The ones at the aid distribution sites? The one where a reporter was killed and another gravely wounded as they walked in a group out in the open, which was recorded?
 
I have long said about aid being used for control. Somebody got around to actually studying it--even worse than I was aware of.


The aid organizations know it's being diverted, they consider it normal. The 90% diversion in Gaza is not unusual.
Was there a reason this was the start of a new thread?
Yes, because the problem is universal. That paper is full of cases where the aid mostly or even entirely goes to the power blocks. I'm saying the 90% we see in Gaza is not an aberration from the norm.
Inspired by this thread.
Inspired, yes, but it's a worldwide problem. By merging it in here it's gotten totally buried. Aid basically enslaves the population while letting us pretend we are doing good.
 
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