Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

But there are INNOCENT people in this scenario, which DrZ seems to forget/ignore.

In conflicts between nations the people of the country that started the war are not considered innocent.

Since when??? Is there some place I can read this fanatastical rule?

Granted that the Palestinian civilians can be considered innocent. But it was Hamas responsibility to ensure their safety and get them out of harms way when hostilities broke out. Normally the government ensures that civilians can evacuate and be moved somewhere safe. This was and is not Israels responsibility.

They shouldn't have started hostilities without a plan for how to move the civilians out of the way. The fact that they hadn't done that, but on purpose used civilians as human shields means Hamas has 100% of responsibility for every Palestinian killed. Civilian or otherwise.

And anyone who wants to blame Israel for the Palestinian civilians killed will just have to get used to be called racist and bigoted

 

[ZiprHead]

Over 20 nations join EU, UN in opposing Israel’s illegal E1 settlement plan

Israel’s plan for illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank will ‘make a two-state solution impossible’.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[ZiprHead]

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

1) Fences were up, not walls.

2) So what if they did? A country is free to put any barrier it wants on it's borders, there is nothing wrongful in doing so.

Gaza is now another country?

Don't split hairs. Gaza was independent enough to have its own army. As well as a completely independent and separate economy.

With your logic North and South Korea is also just one country?

This is just stupid. Seek help.

 

[southernhybrid]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support Israel at this point when there is so much evidence that they are purposely destroying the populace in Gaza. Criticizing Israel does not equate to antisemitism. Israel has a leader who is guilty of war crimes and even much of the Jewish population around the world has criticized him as well as some members of the IDF.

Here's an article that adds more evidence of what Israel is doing to innocent civilians, but of course some of you don't want to know the truth, so I doubt you'll ever read all of it. It's a very long article so I'm just pasting a few parts and of course Israel is denying what these other reliable agencies are claiming. I'll trust what the NYTimes investigators claim over any claims made by the posters here who rarely if ever give convincing evidence of their claims.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/22/...e_code=1.gE8.8Jol.0HFPTtmPrYO8&smid=url-share

Gaza City and the surrounding territory are officially suffering from famine, a global group of experts announced on Friday, nearly two years into an unrelenting war in which Israel has blocked most food and other aid from entering the Gaza Strip.

The group, which the United Nations and aid agencies rely on to monitor and classify global hunger crises, said that at least half a million people in Gaza Governorate were facing the most severe conditions it measures: starvation, acute malnutrition and death.

With rare exceptions, the rest of Gaza’s total population of two million people was also struggling with severe hunger, according to the group, the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, which is made up of food insecurity experts who monitor world hunger.

The group said in a report published on Friday that a combination of several factors had tipped Gaza from a hunger crisis into famine: the intensifying conflict, stringent Israeli restrictions on aid, the collapse of health care, water and sanitation systems, the destruction of local agriculture and the growing number of times people had been forced to flee for new shelters.

It said that conditions in the northernmost part of Gaza were likely to be as severe, or worse, than in Gaza City, but that it had not had enough data to judge whether famine was occurring there. And it said it did not analyze Rafah, the southernmost part of Gaza, because most people there had been forced to leave.

The report said that famine in Gaza could be “halted and reversed” because it was “entirely man-made.”

“The time for debate and hesitation has passed,” it added. “Starvation is present and is rapidly spreading.”


Since the new group began distributing food in late May, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed near its sites, according to Gazan officials and the U.N. human rights office. The Israeli military has said its troops have fired “warning shots” toward surging crowds and that it is investigating the episodes.

The New York Times reported in July that the Israeli military had never found proof that Hamas systematically stole aid from the United Nations — a claim that Israel had frequently made to justify sidelining the U.N. aid system. Israeli officials said there was evidence that Hamas did take aid from other aid groups.

The hunger monitoring group has been warning for much of the war that Gaza was at high risk of famine. Aid officials have said that without a cease-fire allowing relief agencies to deliver large amounts of aid throughout Gaza safely and speedily, hunger and its complications will kill many more people there.

While Hamas has agreed to a new cease-fire proposal from mediators, Israeli forces are gearing up for a new offensive to take over Gaza City, the territory’s largest city and the heart of the area where famine was confirmed on Friday.

Troops were already massing on the city’s outskirts on Thursday, while Israeli officials were preparing to forcibly displace people to southern Gaza for what they said was their safety.

The displacement plans have drawn accusations from Palestinians and rights groups that Israel is pushing people from Gaza into something akin to a concentration camp.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support Israel at this point when there is so much evidence that they are purposely destroying the populace in Gaza. Criticizing Israel does not equate to antisemitism. Israel has a leader who is guilty of war crimes and even much of the Jewish population around the world has criticized him as well as some members of the IDF.

Better to use the term Netanyahu than Israel. A lot of Israel isn't supporting Netanyahu, it is just the nation is so divided politically, he is able to assume massive amounts of power with a small to non-existent plurality of voter support.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But there are INNOCENT people in this scenario, which DrZ seems to forget/ignore.

In conflicts between nations the people of the country that started the war are not considered innocent.

Since when??? Is there some place I can read this fanatastical rule?

Granted that the Palestinian civilians can be considered innocent. But it was Hamas responsibility to ensure their safety and get them out of harms way when hostilities broke out. Normally the government ensures that civilians can evacuate and be moved somewhere safe. This was and is not Israels responsibility.

As long as we ignore pragmatism, you are absolutely right.

They shouldn't have started hostilities without a plan for how to move the civilians out of the way. The fact that they hadn't done that, but on purpose used civilians as human shields means Hamas has 100% of responsibility for every Palestinian killed. Civilian or otherwise.

Hamas is complicit in the suffering of Gazans. This isn't a blank check for the Israeli military to do whatever it wants. The George W Bush Admin pulled that crap with 9/11. Everything they did regarding retraction in rights, bad military ideas, torture... 9/11 was the broad excuse.

International law indicates that the military killing of civilians is prohibited. So there has to be a damn good reason for it to happen. And repeating "Hamas" over and over, doesn't cut it. Actually viable goals need to be achieved, and be of a long-term value to justify knowingly killing or harming civilians.

 

[southernhybrid]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support Israel at this point when there is so much evidence that they are purposely destroying the populace in Gaza. Criticizing Israel does not equate to antisemitism. Israel has a leader who is guilty of war crimes and even much of the Jewish population around the world has criticized him as well as some members of the IDF.

Better to use the term Netanyahu than Israel. A lot of Israel isn't supporting Netanyahu, it is just the nation is so divided politically, he is able to assume massive amounts of power with a small to non-existent plurality of voter support.

Yes, it's similar to what is happening in the US with Trump. Despite his ratings dropping like a rock, he is still getting away with doing lots of illegal things. Nettie, Puttie and the Orange guy have a lot in common.

 

[steve_bank]

An Israeli wrote a book on modern Israeli myths.

Ten Myths About Israel

In this groundbreaking book, the outspoken and radical Israeli historian Ilan Pappe examines the most contested ideas concerning the origins and identity of the contemporary state of Israel. This has been updated with a new afterword on the 2023 invasion of Gaza.1. Palestine was an Empty Land2...

www.versobooks.com

Ilan Pappé - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ilan Pappé (Hebrew: אילן פפה [iˈlan paˈpe]; born 7 November 1954) is an Israeli historian and political scientist, known for his work on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and as a leading figure among Israel's New Historians. He is a professor at the University of Exeter's College of Social Sciences and International Studies, where he directs the European Centre for Palestine Studies and co-directs the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies.

Pappé's research focuses on the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, which he characterizes as a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign, citing Plan Dalet as a blueprint.[1] His notable works include The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006), A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples (2003), and Ten Myths About Israel (2017).[2]

Born in Haifa, Israel, Pappé was a senior lecturer at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chaired the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies (2000–2008).[3] He left Israel in 2008 after facing criticism in the Knesset and receiving death threats.[4]

Pappé was active in Israeli politics as a member of the Hadash party and ran in the 1996[5] and 1999 elections.[6] He advocates a single democratic state for Israelis and Palestinians[7] and supports the BDS movement, including an academic boycott of Israel.[8]

 

[Elixir]

No, the UN simply lumps all diversion into one category, not attempting to break out how much is Hamas vs how much is civilians.

That’s because such figures are not available. Not to them, not to me and NOT TO YOU. You pulled the 90% figure out of your ass, right? At least no source was cited.
I will take more stock in what the people on the ground say than what a stateside supporter of Bibi’s genocide campaign says.
One thing is for sure: if there was adequate relief it wouldn’t be getting “diverted”.

 

[Elixir]

Israel armed the police in Gaza in one of the peace deals--but there was near 100% overlap between "police" and "Hamas".

And that is the fault of the civilians being starved? No, that was probably done with full foreknowledge, and had the intended effect of serving as excuse for genocide.

 

[Gospel]

And anyone who wants to blame Israel for the Palestinian civilians killed will just have to get used to be called racist and bigoted

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has occasionally admitted responsibility when investigations show Israeli fire killed Palestinian civilians.

Edit: To be clear, the IDF does rightly report these as unintentional deaths caused by its own fire, not purely by Hamas. I agree that proximity to Hamas is a major factor, and I share the IDF’s framing of these casualties. But your view, that it’s 100% on Hamas, isn’t accurate, because it isn’t that absolute. But I guess agreeing with the IDF is racist and bigoted because it's me right?

 

[DrZoidberg]

And anyone who wants to blame Israel for the Palestinian civilians killed will just have to get used to be called racist and bigoted

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has occasionally admitted responsibility when investigations show Israeli fire killed Palestinian civilians.

Edit: To be clear, the IDF does rightly report these as unintentional deaths caused by its own fire, not purely by Hamas. I agree that proximity to Hamas is a major factor, and I share the IDF’s framing of these casualties. But your view, that it’s 100% on Hamas, isn’t accurate, because it isn’t that absolute. But I guess agreeing with the IDF is racist and bigoted because it's me right?

Hamas is still 100% responsible because it is Hamas responsibility to get the Palestinian civilians out of harms way. Instead they've seen to that the civilians can't leave.

Not only that, but Hamas are not in uniform. They dress as civilians.

You are correct that Israel is doing everything it can not avoid killing civilians, and take responsibility for it. But they're in such a bizarre and unique situation. No army has ever before had to deal with an opponent that disregards their own population to this degree.

Israel doesn't have psychic powers, nor are they supernaturaly able to avoid killing civilians.

As long as Hamas wear civilian clothing and keep shooting at the IDF, that gives Israel the benefit of the doubt whenever any civilian hits the dirt imho.

Just the fact that the civilians are kept outside the tunnels, in order to protect the tunnels from being bombed is absurd. Normally, the whole point of an army is to protect civilians. Civilians typically have a priority into bunkers and defencive structures.

Hamas is so extreme... and unique... this war is so unusually cruel, there is no equivalent anywhere in human history. Certainly not where one side is well behaved while the other is this monstrous.

Hamas soldiers attack IDF soldiers at USAID stations in civilian clothing so Palestinian civilians get shot, who are queing for food!!! The barbarity of Hamas is so extreme.

And western press just eats it up and play right into Hamas' hands

Do you know that Hamas has forbidden any Gazan to recieve food from USAID? They are threatened with death. Charming guys.

Hamas is not going to let go of power via peaceful means. No negotiations can get these guys to leave. They need to be totally crushed, just like Mussolini, Hitler, Saddam or Imperial Japan was crushed. And that won't happen without rivers of Gazan blood. Hamas has seen to that

 

[laughing dog]

No, the UN simply lumps all diversion into one category, not attempting to break out how much is Hamas vs how much is civilians.

That’s because such figures are not available. Not to them, not to me and NOT TO YOU. You pulled the 90% figure out of your ass, right? At least no source was cited.
I will take more stock in what the people on the ground say than what a stateside supporter of Bibi’s genocide campaign says.
One thing is for sure: if there was adequate relief it wouldn’t be getting “diverted”.

More importantly, different categories - civilians, criminal gangs and Hamas - divert or intercept aid. Where the diverted aid ends up is an empirical matter, but the key is it doesn’t necessarily end up with Hamas. And the Isreali officer’s report that there is no proof of systemic theft by Hamas suggests the assumption that the bulk of diverted aid goes to Hamas is unsupported by fact.

 

[DrZoidberg]

 

[pood]

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

My bad. I guess all the hostages were just Israelis out on a bender in Gaza and got lost? I sure hope they get in touch when they sober up, and we can sort this whole thing out

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.

And you're a tin foil hat loony.

Are you going to accuse the Jews of eating Christian babies next?

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

I'm sorry. I must have missed when she expressed this fantasy. If only I could back in time to see that.

Gaza–Israel barrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When they switched from a flimsy fence to an actual wall is when the suicide bombings stopped.

I'd call Toni a left wing extremist. And why left wing extremists have chosen to get in bed by Islamofacist terrorists.. I don't know. It's a mystery. Because Islamofascist hates the left wing. But it's what they have done. I don't get it.

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

We have a sharp rise in antisemitic hate right now. People on the left, do not seem to care what's happening in Gaza. They just make up absurd bullshit stories, just so they can hate Jews. It doesn't matter how outlandish stories are spread. People just love hating Jews. Similar to how things went down in the 1930'ies. Enough people didn't speak up then. So I'm doing it now. You might think it's just Jews and nobody cares about Jews. But I don't like any minority being targetted like this. So I'm going to continue to call out bigots and racists on this forum.

The main bigot and racist on this forum is you.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No, the UN simply lumps all diversion into one category, not attempting to break out how much is Hamas vs how much is civilians.

That’s because such figures are not available. Not to them, not to me and NOT TO YOU. You pulled the 90% figure out of your ass, right? At least no source was cited.
I will take more stock in what the people on the ground say than what a stateside supporter of Bibi’s genocide campaign says.
One thing is for sure: if there was adequate relief it wouldn’t be getting “diverted”.

More importantly, different categories - civilians, criminal gangs and Hamas - divert or intercept aid. Where the diverted aid ends up is an empirical matter, but the key is it doesn’t necessarily end up with Hamas. And the Isreali officer’s report that there is no proof of systemic theft by Hamas suggests the assumption that the bulk of diverted aid goes to Hamas is unsupported by fact.

UN is using Hamas (it's civilian arm of the government) to distribute all its aid. It doesn't have to divert shit. It controls all of it, and always did since taking power in Gaza. In alignment with official UN policy

The Hamas leaders are now all billionaires thanks to having been able to control that aid. That’s well before the 7/10 attack

If Israels accusation that UNRWA is infiltrated and controlled by Hamas is true. Then Hamas has had an even easier job of doing wtf they want with all UN aid since taking control of Gaza

 

[Elixir]

UN is using Hamas (it's civilian arm of the government)

WTF are you talking about?
Hamas is the UN's civilian arm? You're fucking twisted. UN is not a government in the first place.

If Israels accusation ... is true.

It's not. And it's not Israel's accusation, it's the Bibi regime's.
Bibi is a mini-trump, only even more at risk of being held accountable should be lose his iron grip on power. His grip on power depends on Israelis being terrorized enough to tolerate him. If you want to talk about whose purpose is served by Hamas (or what remains of it), Hamas is "Bibi's civilian branch of government" because it's the only thing - imaginary though its power is at this point - keeping him in power.
Bibi probably owes Hamas his life and certainly owes them his political life.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

My bad. I guess all the hostages were just Israelis out on a bender in Gaza and got lost? I sure hope they get in touch when they sober up, and we can sort this whole thing out

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.

And you're a tin foil hat loony.

Are you going to accuse the Jews of eating Christian babies next?

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

I'm sorry. I must have missed when she expressed this fantasy. If only I could back in time to see that.

Gaza–Israel barrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When they switched from a flimsy fence to an actual wall is when the suicide bombings stopped.

I'd call Toni a left wing extremist. And why left wing extremists have chosen to get in bed by Islamofacist terrorists.. I don't know. It's a mystery. Because Islamofascist hates the left wing. But it's what they have done. I don't get it.

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

We have a sharp rise in antisemitic hate right now. People on the left, do not seem to care what's happening in Gaza. They just make up absurd bullshit stories, just so they can hate Jews. It doesn't matter how outlandish stories are spread. People just love hating Jews. Similar to how things went down in the 1930'ies. Enough people didn't speak up then. So I'm doing it now. You might think it's just Jews and nobody cares about Jews. But I don't like any minority being targetted like this. So I'm going to continue to call out bigots and racists on this forum.

The main bigot and racist on this forum is you.

Ha ha. I'm sure Hitler also felt misunderstood

 

[laughing dog]

The hilarity of the preceding remark is smothered by its irony.

 

[DrZoidberg]

UN is using Hamas (it's civilian arm of the government)

WTF are you talking about?
Hamas is the UN's civilian arm? You're fucking twisted. UN is not a government in the first place.

That's not what I said.

If Israels accusation ... is true.

It's not. And it's not Israel's accusation, it's the Bibi regime's.
Bibi is a mini-trump,

Yes. A very similar politician to Trump.

only even more at risk of being held accountable should be lose his iron grip on power. His grip on power depends on Israelis being terrorized enough to tolerate him.

Jesus christ... what loony insanity tin foil hat news are you getting?

Israel is a modern and very healthy democracy

He's not in power because Israelis are terrorised by him. He's in power for the same reason Trump is in power in USA. Namely that the left has lost the plot and now only focuses on complete bullshit issues, which have alienated their voter base.

Its the same in most democracys today.

Netanyahu didn't get the votes because they were voting for him. But rather against the leftist lunatics that are guaranteed to have wrecked Israels economy.

Israelis are very much aware of what a clown Netanyahu is.

There's no risk for Netanyahu that he'll be held accountable for anything in Israel. Israelis are too close to the conflict. Their news is too accurate. They also get the same lies and misinformation. But because they're better informed, they're less likely to fall for it.

And after this conflict is over, and when the truth will be undeniable, Netanyahu will be treated like the hero he is for how he handled this.

Before 7/10 most Israelis thought he was paranoid for hammering on about Irans plan to attack Israel. He was proven correct. Israeli voters know this now. Which will be excellent for him next election.

But he's a conservative cunt and he gets no points from me from his expansion of the settlements on the west bank.

I'm very much NOT politicaly aligned with either Trump or Netanyahu. I'm on the other side. But Netanyahu has handled himself so well in this war, even I am impressed and I will concede that even horrible politicians can get it right sometimes

If you want to talk about whose purpose is served by Hamas (or what remains of it), Hamas is "Bibi's civilian branch of government" because it's the only thing - imaginary though its power is at this point - keeping him in power.
Bibi probably owes Hamas his life and certainly owes them his political life.

I think you are 100% correct