California Doing California Things

[Politesse]

I say to you to think of it this way. The Democrats have twice put forward bills to ban gerrymandering. Every Democrat voted in favor of the bills. Every Republican voted agaist them

Not just "Democrats". Very specifically, Democrat voters in California, likewise by ballot proposition, 15 years ago. The system Newsom is asking us to dismantle is the very one we ourselves put into place to insure transparency and fairness in the vote. In fact we voted on this twice, once to initiate the redistricting commission and then a few years later to make it permanent. Newsom is asking us to be as inconsistent and unprincipled as he is, blatantly reversing our opinion on things from year to year. I may get talked into this but I sure as hell don't like it. If I wanted to win by cheating I'd just join the Trump train.

The entire premise is revolting. But the Democrats see the GOP re-gerrymandering Texas, effectively removing seats that could have been won in the mid-terms.

I'm absolutely against this type of gerrymandering. The Democrats see it as the only way to keep the upcoming mid-terms fair. And in a sick and perverted way, they are right, but the cost is our representative democracy.

It is appalling. The GOP stole a SCOTUS seat. The GOP has stole the House, any victory by the Democrats won't have undone the fact that the number of seats that are actually elected is vanishingly tiny.

Our Democracy is lost. We lost the war, so is there anything left to actually lose?

It's a very "two wrongs make a right" mentality, but much like the situation in the very nakedly partisan modern Supreme Court, it seems like it is precipitating a bloodbath more than it is bringing things back to any sort of norm. Where does this all end for us? I despise many of the political opinions of conservative Californians, but that doesn't mean I want them to lose their voting franchise. Or my voting franchise, the next time a recall succeeds and the districting board is stuffed with Republican cronies for a while.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Lynchings can be acts of enforcing repression. It's bombings I'm talking about. Political bombings are about things you can't get at the ballot box.

White supremacy was enshrined at Alabama ballot boxes over, and over, and over. Not least of which because Blacks were routinely denied access to them. The situation was not resolved by any law other than the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court and as demanded by five Black women who had had enough.

Had been in the past, doesn't mean it would still be. Culture was changing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another thing is the policing/security that would be required. Idealists can argue against this all they want, but low income areas are rife with crime. There would need to be a selection process that weeds out the law abiding from those with criminal records. There's no sense in spending 10s of billions of dollars to create the American version of Kowloon Walled City.

And as soon as you attempt to do this you'll have the discrimination warriors all over you. Because that criminality has to be just due to more policing. You must ignore anything that is not under the control of the powerful.

I know you enjoy taking jabs at liberals, or more specifically, at what you imagine is ‘Black culture’ and this idea that Black people don’t recognize or try to address problems in our communities. But in reality, public housing screenings in blue cities already run background checks and bar applicants with recent serious criminal convictions. The irony is that most public housing still gets concentrated in high-crime neighborhoods, which undercuts the very purpose.

Edit: On the policing point, how do you explain why even white people have higher arrest rates in urban areas compared to rural ones? Surely that’s not just because there are more cops around.

It's not black culture. It's inner city culture. Of course it's a mess--the good people mostly got out.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Another thing is the policing/security that would be required. Idealists can argue against this all they want, but low income areas are rife with crime. There would need to be a selection process that weeds out the law abiding from those with criminal records. There's no sense in spending 10s of billions of dollars to create the American version of Kowloon Walled City.

And as soon as you attempt to do this you'll have the discrimination warriors all over you. Because that criminality has to be just due to more policing. You must ignore anything that is not under the control of the powerful.

I know you enjoy taking jabs at liberals, or more specifically, at what you imagine is ‘Black culture’ and this idea that Black people don’t recognize or try to address problems in our communities. But in reality, public housing screenings in blue cities already run background checks and bar applicants with recent serious criminal convictions. The irony is that most public housing still gets concentrated in high-crime neighborhoods, which undercuts the very purpose.

Edit: On the policing point, how do you explain why even white people have higher arrest rates in urban areas compared to rural ones? Surely that’s not just because there are more cops around.

It's not black culture. It's inner city culture. Of course it's a mess--the good people mostly got out.

So, only bad people live in the inner city?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Democrats are in serious trouble if they can’t tap into what Americans are actually living through right now. Jobs data, inflation, housing costs, Trump’s tariffs acting like an extra tax, Republicans are actively making life harder while claiming the opposite, and somehow Democrats still can’t capitalize.

Dude, Newsom has done much of that to us Californians. Highest unemployment rate, highest taxes, highest gas and energy prices, increased the number of homeless despite having billions of dollars lobbed at it, more people living at or below poverty levels. Newsom is not the answer.

You prefer his opponent who tweeted about Auschwitz as a solution to the homeless problem?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Gospel]

Not gonna lie, he looks like ‘Florida Man', the discount Miami Vice version that Andrew Dice Clays his way through life with a pack of Newports and zero self-awareness.

 

[Elixir]

Look at women in 2024, many who supported pro-choice... voted for Donald Trump. Why? Money.

And the beauty is that the more Trump steals from the poor and vanishing middle to give to the rich, the more urgent the money issue becomes for the ignorant FOXwashed masses. And the lying fascists’ grip on power becomes ever more secure.
What a racket.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You were the aggressor when you falsely accused Newsom of being pro-genocide

He did, in fact, openly and with a fair bit of publicity endorse Israel's actions in Gaza. How is it a false accusation to repeat what someone has said?

You are taking as a given that the actions in Gaza are genocide.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not black culture. It's inner city culture. Of course it's a mess--the good people mostly got out.

So, only bad people live in the inner city?

The problem is that an awful lot of the good people left. The same thing happens to any location with heavy emigration--the ones that leave are the ones that make things work. (Same thing happens in the corporate world--company doesn't treat employees decently, the good ones jump ship for better jobs elsewhere. In the short run numbers might look good but in the long run it's a very bad thing for the company.)

 

[Gospel]

Look at women in 2024, many who supported pro-choice... voted for Donald Trump. Why? Money.

And the beauty is that the more Trump steals from the poor and vanishing middle to give to the rich, the more urgent the money issue becomes for the ignorant FOXwashed masses. And the lying fascists’ grip on power becomes ever more secure.
What a racket.

My concern is who they’ll turn their anger on once everything dries up and their backs are truly against the wall. Republican policies make it pretty clear who they’ve been grooming these people to target when that moment comes.

 

[Gospel]

It's not black culture. It's inner city culture. Of course it's a mess--the good people mostly got out.

So, only bad people live in the inner city?

The problem is that an awful lot of the good people left. The same thing happens to any location with heavy emigration--the ones that leave are the ones that make things work. (Same thing happens in the corporate world--company doesn't treat employees decently, the good ones jump ship for better jobs elsewhere. In the short run numbers might look good but in the long run it's a very bad thing for the company.)

And you accuse me of seeing the world through some simplistic fantasy lens.

 

[Elixir]

Look at women in 2024, many who supported pro-choice... voted for Donald Trump. Why? Money.

And the beauty is that the more Trump steals from the poor and vanishing middle to give to the rich, the more urgent the money issue becomes for the ignorant FOXwashed masses. And the lying fascists’ grip on power becomes ever more secure.
What a racket.

My concern is who they’ll turn their anger on once everything dries up and their backs are truly against the wall. Republican policies make it pretty clear who they’ve been grooming these people to target when that moment comes.

Yup. Poor people in general are top of the list, and poor POC are at the very top. They will be targeted in sub-groups so’s not to anger them all at once. I do wonder how many of Trump’s morons will lose their taste for cruelty once there is sufficient blood on their hands.

 

[Politesse]

You were the aggressor when you falsely accused Newsom of being pro-genocide

He did, in fact, openly and with a fair bit of publicity endorse Israel's actions in Gaza. How is it a false accusation to repeat what someone has said?

You are taking as a given that the actions in Gaza are genocide.

No, but I do already think that, hence my opinion on Newsom's endorsement thereof.

 

[Politesse]

Look at women in 2024, many who supported pro-choice... voted for Donald Trump. Why? Money.

And the beauty is that the more Trump steals from the poor and vanishing middle to give to the rich, the more urgent the money issue becomes for the ignorant FOXwashed masses. And the lying fascists’ grip on power becomes ever more secure.
What a racket.

My concern is who they’ll turn their anger on once everything dries up and their backs are truly against the wall. Republican policies make it pretty clear who they’ve been grooming these people to target when that moment comes.

Yup. Poor people in general are top of the list, and poor POC are at the very top. They will be targeted in sub-groups so’s not to anger them all at once. I do wonder how many of Trump’s morons will lose their taste for cruelty once there is sufficient blood on their hands.

Also queer and non-White people who have attained political or educational positions; we are already blamed regularly for any perceived failures of economic life, criminal justice, and the social order.

 

[scombrid]

Cunt GOP sells all of our personal data to Elon and his KGB bitch Big Balls. GOP is nationalizing industry and disappearing people. GOP base response? Let’s pose for pictures at Alligator Alcatraz to own the libs.

 

[scombrid]

OMG the trannies are ruining girls sports! OMG they are poisoning g us with vaccines and pasteurized milk!

Never mind the GOP deal with groomer extraordinaire Maxwell. Never mind the J6 pardons. The GOP is protecting us from vaccines and perverts.

 

[Elixir]

Also queer and non-White people who have attained political or educational positions; we are already blamed regularly for any perceived failures of economic life, criminal justice, and the social order.

That’s a legit point IMO. But I think it’s much more personal than tactical or strategic. The Felon has … issues of all sorts, but his insecurity about his own sexual proclivities is totally cringeworthy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not black culture. It's inner city culture. Of course it's a mess--the good people mostly got out.

So, only bad people live in the inner city?

The problem is that an awful lot of the good people left. The same thing happens to any location with heavy emigration--the ones that leave are the ones that make things work. (Same thing happens in the corporate world--company doesn't treat employees decently, the good ones jump ship for better jobs elsewhere. In the short run numbers might look good but in the long run it's a very bad thing for the company.)

And you accuse me of seeing the world through some simplistic fantasy lens.

Got any counterexamples?