“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

[pood]

It is like rubbernecking at a train wreck or a 30-car pileup. Hard to resist.

 

[bilby]

It is like rubbernecking at a train wreck or a 30-car pileup. Hard to resist.

 

[peacegirl]

Janis, I've been scanning some of these posts but I still haven't seen anything that explains how the speed of light reaching our eyes has anything to do with world peace. Plus I'll trust Neil deGrasse Tyson when it comes to physics as he knows what he's talking about and I'm not educated in physics. Neil is a brilliant person.

These are two different discoveries. Please think before you speak and know what you're talking about. It doesn't reflect well (no pun intended) on you.

I've also found your Facebook page and I found out that you have posted a lot of nonsense about vaccines, so I assume you don't understand the science behind the effectiveness and importance of vaccines. I will never understand why so many people believe such bullshit. To give you credit, you've also posted some nice, positive things. Maybe you should make your page private. I don't post on mine but I check FB once in awhile to view restaurant menus or see how a few friends are doing. Your page has a photo of your late father on it as well as the name Lessons, so I'm quite sure it must be yours.

I'm not going to make anything private.

An acquaintance of mine wrote on FB that Bill Gates in planning the next pandemic. All she had to do is take 2 minutes to do a search and she would realize that this was a rumor based on the fact that Gates said he is worried that the world won't be ready for the next pandemic, which he believes might happen within the next 25 years. I'm not a fan of Gates, but I don't like anyone being charged with making false claims. I prefer the truth. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about the nurse I know because she was against the COVID vaccine and other precautions, despite losing her fiancé due to COVID and almost dying herself due to COVID. I try not to contact her any longer, but of course I would be polite if she were to contact me. Of course she voted for the felon in chief. My many COVID vaccines did me no harm.

I prefer truth too, but you have already decided that I don't have any. That is called coming to a premature conclusion. As far as vaccines, there are people that have been hurt by the Covid vaccine and also by Covid. So much is driven by money that it's hard to know whether enough testing was done to guarantee safety for everyone. Young people are dropping dead at an alarming rate. My son-in-law got myocarditis, which is known to be caused by the vaccine. We live in a free country and mandatory vaccines, without the ability to make one's own decision, is undemocratic and is not what America and other democratic countries stand for.

Myocarditis, Pericarditis and Cardiomyopathy After COVID-19 Vaccination - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The only reason that I know your real name is because you showed us a link to your father's book, which you organized and I was a curious about what other nonsense you might believe is true. Please dear, go find a better use of your time. You've said you aren't obsessed over this book, but your posts are strong evidence that you are obsessed.

It's not an obsession. It's a mission. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

Please get some help and stop repeating the same thing over and over again. Don't encourage these guys. Don't worry. I'm not trying to stalk you or harm you in any way. I'm just concerned about your mental health, as any good nurse would be.

You're not concerned about me. You are looking at this thread with the absolute conviction that he must have been wrong, and therefore I must be mentally off. What can I say?

I think you mean well and you're a good person, but there are many things you could do to improve the world in small ways instead of continuing this mindless argument here.

Why are you so invested in giving me advice? Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. It's none of your business what I do.

And yes, This is a waste of time so why are so many of you still engaging her? You're not helping her obsession. I know I said I wouldn't post in this thread again but since I have no free will, I guess I couldn't help myself. Oh wait. None of you have free will or you'd be doing something more productive. Amirite?

That is true. You couldn't resist giving your unsolicited advice that doesn't help me and doesn't actually show your sincerity for my wellbeing.

I'll leave it at that and hope that Janis, aka Peacegirl stops preaching this nonsense and finds something better to do with her time.

You already expressed yourself and left, so why did you come back? I must be irresistable.

I know that I should have stopped responding, but the notions being peddled are so absurd that it like picking at a scab. You know you shouldn't but the itch is there.

You can always buy some cortisone cream. That will help the itch.

There are no discoveries, the idea of seing objects independently of light cannot be supported, it has no merit. It's not how the system works, not according to the physics of light, the structure of the eyes or the function of a brain in relation to generating vision.

In all this time, you still don't understand that seeing objects independently of light is nonsense, and that's not what he is saying.

And how any of this is supposed to relate to achieving world peace is anyone's guess.

DBT, of all people, you would be one to understand this knowledge easier because you wouldn't be resisting the fact that man's will is not free. The only thing that changes slightly is how the author tweaks the definition, which is more accurate because it reflects (no pun intended) reality. In doing so, it leads to the two-sided equation which means that the world must excuse what we could never justify. This changes everything because the advance knowledge that one will not be blamed, when he has not been hurt first, prevents him from desiring to strike a first blow or take chances that could lead to a first blow. He also shows in blueprint form how we must eliminate all the factors that lead to justified retaliation, where the basic principle can have no effect. I think, as a determinist, you would more easily follow his reasoning without the need to defend free will, which belief is what is preventing this new world from becoming a reality. He does use the colloquial expression, "I did this of my own free will," which only means "I did this because I wanted to; nothing caused me to do this against my will."

You ought to buy the book now for 99 cents because it's a joke to keep it at this price much longer. It actually devalues the book. I did this as an experiment to see what would happen if the book was this dirt cheap. If people won't even buy it at this price, then they would not read it even if it were free. Sad indeed. I would hope you can put aside your dislike of his claim regarding the eyes. If you could only do that, then at least you would know where his claim originated. There's a lot of knowledge in this book that you will miss. I have seen how people dislike your position on determinism. They put you down and make fun of you, but you stand your ground. This knowledge reconciles these two opposite principles of "doing of one's own accord with "having no free will," which helps people understand that determinism does not take away one's ability to make decisions at all. It does explain though why people are so vehement in their effort to reject determinism and support libertarianism or compatibilism, which both fail the reality test.

Why persist? It's not going to convince anyone. There is no shame in being wrong, just accept that there was error and learn from it.

But don't you see, you got it wrong by saying that light is not at the eye? When the eye and brain work in reverse, it can be seen that the light would be at the eye without the light traveling. At this point, it's not here nor there. I wanted to focus on the two-sided equation, which is more important at this name of the game. Unfortunately, Pood and others would not let his claim regarding the eyes go, and it has made it difficult to discuss his first discovery, which holds the key to lasting peace.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

Makes no sense.

 

[pood]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

 

[steve_bank]

You can take optics over to natural science\optics-electromagnetics.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

If determinism is true, it doesn’t depend on someone being there to make you do something, but that events unfold or evolve as they must.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

Makes no sense.

Yet light at the eye/instant vision/world peace does?

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

That's what I wanted, but it always morphs into this.

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

Makes no sense.

Yet light at the eye/instant vision/world peace does?

You're being so funny I forgot to laugh.

 

[bilby]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

That's what I wanted, but it always morphs into this.

It could not have happened any other way.

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

If determinism is true, it doesn’t depend on someone being there to make you do something, but that events unfold or evolve as they must.

Events unfold as they must, but knowing that will is not free changes human conduct (and how events unfold) when the corollary to determinism is applied to the environment.

 

[peacegirl]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

That's what I wanted, but it always morphs into this.

It could not have happened any other way.

True. What has happened could not have been otherwise.

 

[pood]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

If determinism is true, it doesn’t depend on someone being there to make you do something, but that events unfold or evolve as they must.

As they do, not as they must. Same old modal fallacy.

 

[bilby]

knowing that will is not free changes human conduct

By definition, it cannot.

If will is not free, then nothing we know can change anything.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

Makes no sense.

It hasn't been explained. You just keep repeating the claim and referring
Yet light at the eye/instant vision/world peace does?

You're being so forgot to laugh.

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

Makes no sense.

Yet light at the eye/instant vision/world peace does?

You're being so funny I forgot to laugh.

It hasn't been explained. You just keep repeating the claim and saying read the book.

Anyone with even a basic understanding of physics can see the claim has no merit.

And how 'light at the eye' is supposed to achieve world peace is something you should try to explain.

 

[DBT]

It makes no sense, sorry. And it's not because I say so. The reasons why it has no merit have been explained more than enough times, only to be ignored or brushed aside and the claim repeated.

I've said everything I can to keep your interest. If I haven't, so be it. You can move on DBT, no one is keeping you here.

No one is keeping any of us here, yet here we are.

I thought determinism was making you be here?

If determinism is true, it doesn’t depend on someone being there to make you do something, but that events unfold or evolve as they must.

As they do, not as they must. Same old modal fallacy.

With no possible alternate action, "must" describes the evolution or progression of events well enough, as does necessitation.

The word is not the thing. How the system works is not changed by the words we use.

I merely refer to determinism as compatibilists define it to be. As an incompatibilist, I don't dispute the compatibilist definition of determinism, which is not the point of contention.

Anyhow, this has been done to death, so I don't want to get into it again.