How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

Why not fix it by talking to Ukraine rather than bombing them? Jaw-jaw is better than war-war as Churchill noted.

Ukraine has to be receptive for that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's why I reminded you that Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked after lying about the preparations for the initial catastrophic failure...

Russian annexation of Crimea was not unprovoked.

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

If the Ukranian leaders after Ynukovich were intelligent enough, they would have realized that tilting westward too much will alarm Russia.

I love you baby, why do you make me hit you?

 

[aupmanyav]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

That is history. Why did not Ukraine remember that when it turned to West? Yanukovich was aware of Russian susceptibilities. He agreed to trade with West.

"Yanukovych stood for economic modernization, greater economic ties with the EU, and military non-alignment." - Wikipedia

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

That is history. Why did not Ukraine remember that when it turned to West?

Ukraine owes Russia nothing.

 

[Elixir]

Why did not Ukraine remember that when it turned to West?

Because Russia is a relentless land grabbing autocracy that they wanted no part of?
Just a guess…
Another guess: you don’t think they deserve any say in who their friends are.

 

[barbos]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

That is history. Why did not Ukraine remember that when it turned to West?

Ukraine owes Russia nothing.

That's patently false. Ukraine literally owes Russia few billions of dollars plus $250bil in the gas/oil price discounts

 

[barbos]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

And Putin (Russia leader) explicitly took it back

 

[Elixir]

It's why I reminded you that Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked after lying about the preparations for the initial catastrophic failure...

Russian annexation of Crimea was not unprovoked. If the Ukranian leaders after Ynukovich were intelligent enough, they would have realized that tilting westward too much will alarm Russia.

Such bullshit. Leaning one way or another is their sovereign choice. Russia feeling “provoked” does not excuse their blatant violation of treaties they signed.

I understand things.

Probably not so true as it may have once been. Serving excuses to a Russian despot doesn’t reflect any understanding whatsoever.

That is history.

Yeah, as soon as Russia signs a treaty it’s history, and the other signee is fair game.
That’s fucked up, dude.
Hope I’m not so senile at 83.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

And Putin (Russia leader) explicitly took it back

You misspelled "occupied". It wasn't Putin's to "take back". Might as well put troops in Alaska because Russia took it back.

 

[barbos]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

And Putin (Russia leader) explicitly took it back

You misspelled "occupied". It wasn't Putin's to "take back". Might as well put troops in Alaska because Russia took it back.

No, I wrote what I wanted to write.
Khrushev Crimea transfer was illegal at the time. And it was declared void by Russian Parliament.
Also Crimean Parliament voted (legally) to leave Ukraine, they had legal right to leave according to Ukrainian constitution.
But again, this irrelevant becasue transfer itself was illegal.
Question is about the whole Ukraine is also not so obvious. USSR dissolution was technically illegal too. There was no vote in USSR to dissolve. Some parliaments voted but that was not binding.
And the mere fact that the west accepts dissolution of USSR and rejects dissolution of Ukraine is weird.
You can't do that. You set the precedent by accepting USSR dissolution, moreover you supported further dissolution of Russian federation. Yet you don't support dissolution of any former USSR republics.
Crimea have never been Ukraine, they have always been Russia. Eastern Ukraine is the same, albeit to slightly lesser degree. They don't speak and don't want to speak Ukrainian, they are much closer to Russia than to banderite Western Ukraine. Russian language, russian culture, everything is russian there. And the moment nazi started behaving like nazis, Eastern Ukraine left.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Khrushchev (USSR leader) explicitly gave Crimea to Ukraine.

And Putin (Russia leader) explicitly took it back

You misspelled "occupied". It wasn't Putin's to "take back". Might as well put troops in Alaska because Russia took it back.

No, I wrote what I wanted to write.

Spelling errors are not something to be ashamed of.

Khrushev Crimea transfer was illegal at the time. And it was declared void by Russian Parliament.

Could do the same with Alaska.

Also Crimean Parliament voted (legally) to leave Ukraine, they had legal right to leave according to Ukrainian constitution.

Uh huh. Completely at their own volition, I'm sure.

But again, this irrelevant becasue transfer itself was illegal.

Well sure, the guy who said it was had the Parliament say it was.

Question is about the whole Ukraine is also not so obvious. USSR dissolution was technically illegal too. There was no vote in USSR to dissolve. Some parliaments voted but that was not binding.

Yes, and the US Constitution came about without a formal set up to abandon the Articles of Confederation. Sometimes adults must adult.

And the mere fact that the west accepts dissolution of USSR and rejects dissolution of Ukraine is weird.

Suppose it is time for Virginia to retake West Virginia.

You can't do that. You set the precedent by accepting USSR dissolution, moreover you supported further dissolution of Russian federation. Yet you don't support dissolution of any former USSR republics.

You'd think Russia would be better at losing at this point.

 

[barbos]

Could do the same with Alaska.

Alaska sale was technically legal. In practice of course it was a result of british invasion into .... Crimea.

 

[barbos]

Suppose it is time for Virginia to retake West Virginia.

Don't care, none of my business.
But I have a better Idea, leave Texas and New Mexico to Mexico.
And Kosovo to Serbia. And Taiwan to China.

You'd think Russia would be better at losing at this point.

Do not comprehend.
Let me repeat, Your constant attempts to split Russian Federation and support of Ukrainian borders looks suspicious.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Could do the same with Alaska.

Alaska sale was technically legal. In practice of course it was a result of british invasion into .... Crimea.

WAH!!! Our antiquated 18th century military that was only good enough to defeat the weak Ottomans got its ass handed to it by modern militaries. WAH!!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Suppose it is time for Virginia to retake West Virginia.

Don't care, none of my business.
But I have a better Idea, leave Texas and New Mexico to Mexico.

Texas declared independence and fought their own war against Mexico. There is an awful TNT miniseries of it, I don't recommend watching.

Also, California, Arizona, Nevada were also goods seized from Mexico. Might have been better if we just took the whole thing. Border patrol costs would be much smaller along the southern border.

You'd think Russia would be better at losing at this point.

Do not comprehend.

Agreed.