Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[unapologetic]

As a colony,

You're still a colony?

 

[bilby]

As a colony,

You're still a colony?

Our head of state is King Charles III, so I am going to go with "yes".

 

[crazyfingers]

“Bob Dylan Just Ignited a Firestorm With One Sentence About Charlie Kirk — And the World Is Watching”
He could have stayed silent. He could have deleted the post and let it fade.
But Bob Dylan didn’t. The music legend doubled down, setting the internet ablaze and sending shockwaves through concert halls, news outlets, and living rooms worldwide.
His words about the late Charlie Kirk — “If you want people to speak kindly after you’re gone, speak kindly while you’re alive” — struck like a match in a powder keg. Critics immediately circled, fans were divided, and social media erupted with debate, praise, and outrage.
Dylan’s response was simple, but unwavering: “I stand by this. Be kind — now more than ever.”
Some hail it as an act of bravery, a rare voice of conscience in a fractured culture. Others wonder if it will spark a controversy that could reshape Dylan’s legacy forever.
One thing is clear: the sentence didn’t just make headlines — it ignited a conversation about kindness, accountability, and the power of words that shows no sign of dying down. Read our full analysis in the comments.

Only it's not true. Facebook is not a reliable source for much of anything

Did singer Bob Dylan just "ignite a firestorm" with a single sentence about Charlie Kirk and was that sentence "If you want people to speak kindly after you're gone, speak kindly while you're alive"? No, that's not true: Dylan is just the latest victim in a series of Facebook posts falsely attributing the same quote to various celebrities. According to transparency information most of the pages involved with the fake quote posts are being run from outside the United States.

...

According to an earlier fact check we did in response to several other viral posts, the quote attributed to Bob Dylan ("If you want people to speak kindly after you're gone, speak kindly while you're alive") was previously ascribed to Mookie Betts, Bryce Harper, Mike Norvell, Jalen Hurts, Brock Purdy, Julian Sayin, Aaron Judge, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson's daughter Ava, Atticus Sappington, C.J. Stroud and even Stephen Colbert.

At that time Lead Stories searched for part of the quote in combination with "Charlie Kirk" on Facebook and found dozens of quasi-identical posts (archived here):

Fact Check: Fake Bob Dylan Quote About Speaking Kindly While You're Alive Was NOT Response To Charlie Kirk's Death -- Foreign Spam Network

Did singer Bob Dylan just "ignite a firestorm" with a single sentence about Charlie Kirk and was that sentence "If you want people to speak kindly after you're gone, speak kindly while you're alive"? No, that's not true: Dylan is...

www.yahoo.com

 

[unapologetic]

Can someone with better Internetz than me,
Make a video of the Jan 6 insurrection, complete with cutaways to Trump and Hawley and such, with an overlay of this quote?

I can do stills.

 

[Bomb#20]

That makes it sound like Kirk thought gender ideology is a cult and trans people are its victims.

Kirk did not simply call gender ideology a "cult." He repeatedly described transgender people themselves as mentally ill, dangerous, and in need of institutionalization, advocating a return to the practices of the 1950s and 60s.

And? Do you think the people who thought Typhoid Mary was ill, dangerous, and in need of institutionalization thought so because they hated her?

He painted them not as victims but as aggressors, linking them to mass shootings and "perversion," even though the evidence runs the opposite direction.

I'll be much surprised if you can produce said evidence running in the opposite direction re "perversion", since "perversion" is an entirely subjective pejorative. Re mass shootings, do you mean something like Elixir's Perplexity emission, "transgender people are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators"? That's true of pretty much any demographic, since one perpetrator typically has many victims.

That’s why the word "hate" is more than just semantics here. When you argue that a whole group of people are diseased, dangerous, and should be stripped of their rights, that is hate in practice--whether or not you dress it up as concern.

History gives us a clear analogy: slaveholders often claimed they were "protecting" enslaved people from the supposed dangers of liberal equality. George Fitzhugh, for instance, argued that enslaved people were "the happiest people in the world" because slavery spared them from the burdens of freedom. If you take their words at face value, it sounds like benevolence, but if you look at their actions, it was exploitation and domination.

Dude, you're making my case for me. Do you seriously imagine Fitzhugh and the rest of the slavers were motivated by hatred?!? They enslaved people because they wanted labor and didn't want to pay for it, and had the morals of Mafia dons. Calling that kind of thing "hate in practice" is like claiming a mob enforcer who beats up a merchant for paying his "protection" money late hated the merchant. It's absurd. All you're demonstrating is that abuse of the word "hate" has become so completely normalized in leftist circles that it's become a de facto synonym for "harmful" in the subculture's dialect.

The same applies here. If you only listen to Kirk’s framing--"protecting" people from a so-called ideology--you miss the reality of what his rhetoric and policy advocacy meant for actual trans people: marginalization, loss of healthcare, social demonization, and the revival of 1950s and 60s “treatments” that meant forced institutionalization, electroshock, lobotomies, or being physically forced into psychiatric prisons with 24/7 sedation.

You can nitpick the word "hate" and try to turn that into a leftist slur or whatever, but that is semantic, not substantive.

If you think it's semantic and not substantive then you don't know what the point in dispute is. What, do you think I'm defending him? I called him a dirtbag, remember? We're not arguing about whether Kirk was a bad person, or whether what he was doing was bad for trans people, or whatever the bejesus it is you think is "substantive". We're arguing about where Robinson's thinking came from. The fact that Robinson called Kirk's views "hate" is a clue. Comparing the semantics of "hate" with the facts of what Kirk said is not a nitpick! It's how one follows the clue to see where it leads. The substantive fact is that the clue leads straight to that subculture's dialect.

 

[Elixir]

Do you think the people who thought Typhoid Mary was ill, dangerous, and in need of institutionalization thought so because they hated her?

We all could tell how much Charlie absolutely adored trans folk. He only wanted to lock them up for their own good, to protect them from people like him. Maybe execute one in front of the kids on occasion, as part of their State-sponsored pre-school curriculum.

Surely Robinson must have hated him because Robinson was Antifa. They’ll probably show his membership card in court. Nothing about trans stuff, nope.
/yuks

Chuckie was a scumbucket. Robinson is just a nutbar, apparently the SO of a trans person. Shit happens EVERY DAY. Threaten people in public with incarceration and more shit happens. Nutbars come out of the woodwork feeling threatened and acting accordingly.
Poor Charlie. He was so sincere in his godly bigotry.

 

[unapologetic]

They enslaved people because they wanted labor and didn't want to pay for it, and had the morals of Mafia dons. Calling that kind of thing "hate in practice" is like claiming a mob enforcer who beats up a merchant for paying his "protection" money late hated the merchant. It's absurd.

Well that sort of zero regard for people is hate-ish. Hate adjacent. Close enough to hate to make no diference. Worse than just indiference to suffering. That is causing suffering. You sir are trivalizing hate.

 

[Bomb#20]

Do you think the people who thought Typhoid Mary was ill, dangerous, and in need of institutionalization thought so because they hated her?

We all could tell how much Charlie absolutely adored trans folk. <rest of drivel snipped>

What the heck is your problem? The people who thought Typhoid Mary was ill, dangerous, and in need of institutionalization, but didn't hate her, didn't adore her either, and you damn well know it!!! So why the bejesus are you painting my pointing out the lack of evidence for Kirk hating trans folk as meaning I'm implying he adored them? I don't think you're deliberately strawmanning me -- you are really giving off a hardware-problem vibe. Are you just physiologically incapable of following an argument? So any time you see one that doesn't lead where you expect you just force-fit it onto some completely different argument for some completely unrelated contention and delude yourself that it's what you read?

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

I have to say, this kind of situation really does exemplify what I have been saying about how those who have been apparently merely "rhetorically cheeky" up to now only did so as a pretext to support hate and horrors being visited on people, and that this was always where they were headed.

Yes, you were always Nazis, the word Nazi always applied, and none of it was a Godwin after all (although Godwin himself admitted that sometimes, the guy calling the other a Nazi... Well, sometimes in the current climate they are right!)

We always knew that fascism would come to the world wrapped in the visage of Christianity, but representing utter mal-social selfishness. It was written over 2000 years ago describing the actions of tyrants of the day and humanity at that scale is still the same as it ever was.

The hate will be spun so that it's image confuses people as to whether it is hate; the effects of the hate will be people harmed horribly and tortured all the same, but it will be presented to everyone else confusingly.

And that is what we see... Many words used to confuse the issue that Charlie Kirk was a fascist Nazi who hated gay people and preached that hate.

Any chance your alter ego is Barbos? Sorry, bad inside joke. Kirk wasn't a Nazi. The danger with considering that everyone is a Nazi, is that you'll be continuously at war with everyone, and the real enemy will grow in power. Just a thought...

This kind of equivocation isn't helping anything. No one compares "everyone" to Nazis. People who know history compare those who espouse Nazi ideology to Nazis. Concepts like scientific racism, eugenics, anti-socialism, Aryan supremacy, and radical nationalism aren't inventions of "the left".

Also those concepts like scientific racism and eugenics were prevalent in early 20th century USA, and actually inspired some of the Nazi philosophy.