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I have a question about laws of physics

BH

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Hi,

I have read where it is theorized the laws of physics could have been different than they are in our universe today, and I have even read due to the disparity and formation of matter at different points right after the big bang the laws of physics may actually be different in some portions of the outer universe. This is something I understand nothing about. Could any of you more technically qualified tell me more about this?
 
I have even read due to the disparity and formation of matter at different points right after the big bang the laws of physics may actually be different in some portions of the outer universe.
Citation, please.

I have found that science is regularly mischaracterized in popular reporting so I’d be curious to hunt down any primary sources that back this idea.
 
I have even read due to the disparity and formation of matter at different points right after the big bang the laws of physics may actually be different in some portions of the outer universe.
Citation, please.

I have found that science is regularly mischaracterized in popular reporting so I’d be curious to hunt down any primary sources that back this idea.
I don't remember where I read it, but that is also why I asked you good folks here. So many are well educated on these things.

After all the old hym goes Jesus could have called ten thousand angels....

When I have a science question I call ten thousand Internet Infidelers...
 
with the caveats that I am not a cosmologist nor have I researched the claim, I would think that the idea that the “laws of physics” are different in different parts of the universe would undermine the standard model of cosmology. Although There are still issues with the model to be worked out, such as dark matter, dark energy, and the Hubble tension, I have not heard that anybody proposes solving those with inhomogeneous physical laws.

And I don’t even know what would be meant by the “outer” portions of the universe.
 
Here's an article.

"The report describes how one of the supposed fundamental constants of Nature appears not to be constant after all. Instead, this 'magic number' known as the fine-structure constant -- 'alpha' for short -- appears to vary throughout the universe."


 
And I don’t even know what would be meant by the “outer” portions of the universe.
Doesn’t the notion of an expanding universe imply an outer edge? If it’s like a soap bubble (with more dimensions), virtually its entire volume IS the “outer portion”, right?
 
And I don’t even know what would be meant by the “outer” portions of the universe.
Doesn’t the notion of an expanding universe imply an outer edge?

No. There need not be an edge or a center for there to be an expansion. There’s no reference point from which to designate any portion of the universe as the edge.

If it’s like a soap bubble (with more dimensions), virtually its entire volume IS the “outer portion”, right?
If everywhere is the outer portion then effectively nowhere is and it is not a meaningful distinction to make.
 
If everywhere is the outer portion then effectively nowhere is and it is not a meaningful distinction to make.
Zackly, So … the analogy, as far as it goes, is apt?
If by “apt” you mean “meaningless” like I said then yes.

But to be fair, I am not up on all the latest in cosmology so perhaps there are some decent theories with an inhomogeous universe.
 
'How can you be in two places at once if you are not anywhere at all?'

Who is to say that our observable universe is but a tiny infinitesimally small part of an infinite universe?
 
If by “apt” you mean “meaningless” like I said then yes.
Yes, just as it is senseless to suppose that the “center” of a bubble is on the surface of the bubble.
The question is more one of which points on the surface of a bubble are closest to the edge of that bubble's surface. As the surface of a bubble doesn't have an edge, the question is meaningless.

If the bubble is growing, the surface is expanding; But that doesn't imply that the surface has an "edge" that is expanding away from the surface's "centre".
 
Hi,

I have read where it is theorized the laws of physics could have been different than they are in our universe today, and I have even read due to the disparity and formation of matter at different points right after the big bang the laws of physics may actually be different in some portions of the outer universe. This is something I understand nothing about. Could any of you more technically qualified tell me more about this?
I believe Carl Sagan speculated on several different models of the universe in his "Cosmos" television series. In on model, the universe starts with a Big Bang, expands to a certain point, contracts back into a black hole and becomes a singularity, which big bangs again. He made an offhand remark that in the succeeding universe, the laws of physics might be different.

The Laws of Physics are basically the result of empirical observations. As our observations became more broad and precise, the laws are refined. Galileo observed that things fall to Earth at the same rate. Isaac Newton developed the math that showed to Moon was behaving the same as a cannon ball dropped from a tower. Neither of them could explain why it worked, they could only describe how it worked. Einstein looked at everything and said for all of this to appear as we see it, space and time are curved. After that, it gets weird.
 
Hi,

I have read where it is theorized the laws of physics could have been different than they are in our universe today, and I have even read due to the disparity and formation of matter at different points right after the big bang the laws of physics may actually be different in some portions of the outer universe. This is something I understand nothing about. Could any of you more technically qualified tell me more about this?

I am not technically qualified, but am still willing to offer my opinions. 8-)

For almost a century and a half, theoretical physics and cosmology have been on a roller-coaster ride; one moment the universe is treated as a solved problem, the next moment it's all a total mystery. With most of the physicists who've ever lived alive and working today, and dependent on publishing papers, the oscillations are frenetic. Google "Newton and Einstein were BOTH wrong" and find dozens of papers from 2025 alone. Not only do some imagine that the constants of physics would differ if we could look beyond the observable universe, some think that even closer to home, parameters vary over time! As recently as a decade ago one could ask cosmologists WHEN the Big Bang occurred and hear "13.8 billion years ago. Is that enough sig figs for you?" Today you can hear widely different estimates, and hear doubt that there was ever a Big Bang at all.

Isaac Newton developed laws of motion and gravity; Maxwell provided laws for electricity, magnetism, and even light, as well as advancing the kinetic theory of gases. Newton's mistaken idea that light was particles was refuted by the double-slit experiment in 1801. What else was there left to discover?

In 1878 the precocious Max Planck was studying physics at university, when one of his advisors, Philipp von Jolly cautioned Planck not to waste his time on theoretical physics, because
Philipp von Jolly said:
Physics was almost complete, being a highly developed, nearly fully matured science, that through the crowning achievement of the discovery of the principle of conservation of energy will arguably soon take its final stable form.

Planck assured Herr von Jolly that he had no intention to advance the theory of physics, and went about pursuing details, such as, in 1900, fitting black-body radiation to a curve:  Planck's_law. Five years later a then-obscure fellow German noticed that Planck's Law implied that light was composed of particles after all!

As recently as 1900 some physicists (including Planck himself!) did not accept that matter was composed of atoms, but of course they changed their views long before 1938 when an atom of uranium was split.

The glories of life -- no element, certainly not silicon, has chemistry as complex as carbon -- and the evolution of stars -- dependent through unknown magic on the details of quark behavior -- may not operate without the EXACT physical constants we happen to have in our Universe. Maybe there was, after all, an Omnigod who calculated the perfectly best parameters! Or maybe, as Tegmark suggests, ALL possible parameter settings map to "real" universes, but 99.99999999999% of them are too boring to have creatures posting on message-boards.

Take your pick. If you WANT the physical constants to change over time and/or space you can probably find a PhD's paper that offers what you want.
 

As recently as a decade ago one could ask cosmologists WHEN the Big Bang occurred and hear "13.8 billion years ago. Is that enough sig figs for you?" Today you can hear widely different estimates, and hear doubt that there was ever a Big Bang at all.
And can you qualify how mainstream these other ideas are? Just because someone says something does not mean it is the consensus view of practicing cosmologists. As far as I know the lambda-CDM model is still the standard model of cosmology despite still having issues to work out.

I think there’s a lot of popular interest in the idea that science is wrong and there are plenty of grifters out there willing to bank on promoting those ideas.

Take your pick. If you WANT the physical constants to change over time and/or space you can probably find a PhD's paper that offers what you want.
and to be taken seriously that’s papers need to present theories that explain the conversational less as well as the current cosmology.

Just because I can find a distinguished PhD astronomer who will say that an interstellar comet is an alien spacecraft doesn’t mean that this is a common view among scientists let alone even a well-respected one.
 
The BB is an extreme extrapolation back in time based on a century or so of observation.

To me it is theory not fact, it is not demonstrable.

The BB does not start at time zero of the universe, it does not define how the assumed initial conditions came to be.

That some may dispute time in what we today call seconds is not really unexpected.

To me cosmology lie the BB is mathematical speculation,.
 
it does not define how the assumed initial conditions came to be.
That, and why would such conditions be “initial” rather than “developed” in some other timeline.
I mean, if they “came to be”, what did they “come” from?
 
To me, the BB is just the best guess we have, at the moment, based on our observations. Primarily, the CMB, based on an expanding cosmos. As Steve points out, it is not the solid based proven science (such as evolution, still questioned by religious nuts) that so many assume it is.
 
In in inital conditions in solving sets of dynamic equations is the state of the variables.

It defines where a simulation starts.

Unless you violate conservation and assume something from nothing the BB initial conditions had to have an origin. The BB extrapolates back to a theoretical hot dense soup.

So thee BB is not about ultimate origins of the Universe seen and unseen. In pop culture the BB became the groins of everything. To me a creation myth.



The initial conditions for the Big Bang are described as an extremely hot, dense state from which the universe expanded. While the Big Bang theory doesn't explain the origin of this state, a process called cosmic inflation is theorized to have rapidly expanded the early universe, resolving some of the questions about initial conditions, such as the flatness and homogeneity of the universe. These initial conditions ultimately set the stage for the formation of matter, the first stars, and galaxies that we observe today.


I watched a show on a BB simulation. Galaxy like structures emerged.
 
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