Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with calling Trump a fascist is that it relatvises actual fascism. It's the "cry wolf" problem. It's the same thing with calling his policies racist. It relativises actual racism. Has he put in place any laws that limits people based on race? If not, then his policies aren't racist. He can be a racist while his policies aren't racist. To the rape accusation. He hasn't been convicted of rape. So calling him a rapist relativises rape.

The problem with all of this is that it will make us blind to being taken over by actual racist rapist fascist.

You don't need to like Trump to insist that we call him what he actually is, a lying orange clown

Huh?

How is he not a fascist? He's rapidly turning our government into fascism.

This is like calling someone who was rude to you once for a narcisist.

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's just hyperbole. Yes, there's fascist traits. But he's right at the top of a slippery slope, that's not particularly slippery.

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Not a racist? You realize some of his crowd have admitted they intend to purge the country of non-whites?

Where are the racist laws that he's passed?

Laws?! He doesn't care about the law! The Gestapo is stopping people on race alone.

Not a rapist? He's admitted to rape.

No, he hasn't. Don't relativise rape. It's a serious crime. Not cool.

Some places specifically limit rape to a penis, others define it as sexual penetration even without it being a penis. The state he did it in uses the strict definition and thus his actions are only sexual assault as the penetration was by a finger, not a penis. But he's basically admitted to doing it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with calling Trump a fascist is that it relatvises actual fascism. It's the "cry wolf" problem.

Evidence of fascism (not an exhaustive list):

• Arrests and deportation of legal residents
• Consolidation of power & undermining checks and balances
• Attacks on media, speech, and dissent
• Purges of opposition
• Rhetoric, demagoguery, and scapegoating of groups
• Using the military against civilians

I also find it troubling. None of that is good. But he's not arguing against democracy.

He literally told Texas to re-gerrymander their maps to make the US House elections in that state even less democratic and help save the GOP majority in the US House. Said it out loud.

That sounds like he's working within the legal and democratic framework of USA. The opposite of fascism. An important feature of fascism is that they argue against democracy. Trump hasn't done that once. When he was crying about the election being stolen, that's a clue that he respects the democratic process. It's also a clue that he's fucking idiot. But that's another matter.

Just because he's working "within" the law doesn't mean he's not also working outside it.

He's not tried undermining free press.

He has pressured both WashPo, CBS, NBC, and ABC. Both verbally and dangling delays and rejections of corporate mergers that involved said companies.

Do you pay any attention to the news?

That's not what undermining the press means. He's more like a petulant child lashing out. I can't see any strategy involved.

The public discourse is heavily skewed to the left. Or was until quite recently. He wasn't wrong about that. That's what he is upset about.

Now it seems like the woke lunacy trend is finally over. It'll overcorrect in the opposite direction. Which will be bad for different reasons. But the basis for his complaints are not imaginary.

Reality is skewed to the left. While I certainly agree there is bias in the media the "news" on the right is far, far more biased than the news on the left.

What purges of opposition has he done?

They arrested a judge, does that count?

Are you referring to judge Hannah Dugan? As far as I can tell Trump had nothing to do with it. It seems to be FBI, because she did something naughty.

Except she didn't. What she did was "obstruct" an arrest that they were attempting to do without a proper warrant. She didn't go along with them breaking the rules.

United States, for all its problems is very married to democracy.

Was, "was very married to democracy". But you apparently don't pay attention to any of the news regarding the US to see the rather notable changes in the past 9 years.

Correct. I get limited news about USA. In Europe news is either glorifying or vilifying USA. We rarely get a sober account. So it's hard to evaluate general trends from over here.

You speak English, there's enough you can look at.

A fundamental aspect of fascism is that its got a violent fanclub, given special status, that are protected by the law to run rampant and terrorise people.

Sounds like you are talking about ICE. You know, the people racial profiling, sending some people to a torture prison in El Salvador or some country in Africa, many without due process.

Just stop it. They don't murder people and spread terror in the general population. It's not cool to relativise political violence like this.

Only in the population of people saying things he doesn't like. And any non-citizen listed in any criminal incident, no matter how minor, and whether or not they were even guilty of an offense at all. (They've grabbed someone for being with someone that kept a fish they should have thrown back.)

I suggest going to torture museums from around the world, set in the torture camps where the political tortures were committed. It'll give you some perspective on this.

Are you not aware of what that prison in El Salvador is?

That is just not happening today. The capitol rioters were arrested and sent to jail. And it was a one off.

They were pardoned.

Because Trump got re-elected. The QAnon Shaman isn't back to his old nonsense. He retired. The capitol rioters weren't trying to bring democracy down. They were trying to uphold democracy. You're completely confused about what fascism is

No, it was a coup attempt. Our Constitution spells out a fallback option for how to select a president if the election becomes impossible. The intent was to sabotage the certification of the election and thus trigger this fallback--which would have ended up putting him in office in 2020. It was ineptly done, though.

Actual fascism is much more sinister and brutal. Iran is a good current example. You cannot criticise the regime from inside Iran. Iran sends agents abroad to murder refugee Iranians who criticise the regime. Its on a whole different level

Correct, Kimmel and Colbert haven't been sent to a Mongolia Dung Mine. However, Trump tried to get both of them fired for not saying nice things. In America, that is somewhat unusual, as fascism hasn't been part of our ethos. Populism at times, but rarely fascism.

Agreed, it's not a great development. But that doesn't make him a fascist. It's more like he's just a regular guy who accidentaly became president and is in way over his head.

He's basically a puppet mostly doing what the P2025 puppetmasters want, although with his temper tantrums thrown in.

He's not even authoritarian.

He has been leading via declaration for a while. Including attacking law firms, media companies, illegally enacting tariffs, illegally impounding Congressional spending, pardoned the J6 rioters, having the DoJ target who he considers his political enemies. He isn't an authoritarian, he is acting authoritarian-lite at the moment.

Sure. It's still right at the top of the slippery slope.

He's bringing criminal cases against people who did nothing wrong except not obey illegal instructions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I somehow doubt Trump is a machiavellian mastermind. I agree that it looked like an attempt of a coup or the start of a civil war. The reason it's not, is that he's got zero ground troops willing to fight for him. American conservatives are extremely enthusiastic about democracy. When they whine about liberals it's the non-democratic aspects of liberalism, ie the intolerance and lack of intellectual curiousity, that they react against. That's not a foundation upon which to build a dictatorship.

If Trump would call himself a dictator he's got zero powerbase to back him up.

Right now it's typically liberals who struggle with respecting the democratic principles. Not conservatives. That's not how it used to be. But that's how it is now.

edit: I'm not saying that a civil war can't happen. Trump may very well trigger a civil war. But the moment it gets going I can't see Trump leading anything. He's an entitled whiny populist. He's not Cromwell.

He's still replacing the control structures with those loyal to him rather than to the law. But he's not encountering any meaningful opposition in doing so.

 

[Politesse]

The fire is suspicious, that concludes all we know about the fire at this point.

Then why is it ridiculous to observe that the fire is, you know, obviously suspicious?

 

[bilby]

I suggest going to torture museums from around the world, set in the torture camps where the political tortures were committed. It'll give you some perspective on this.

Are you not aware of what that prison in El Salvador is?

Never mind El Salvador, there's a concentration camp in Florida too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alcatraz

On July 12, Congressional and state lawmakers were given a tour of the facility. Lawmakers reportedly heard cries of libertad, meaning "freedom" in Spanish, from detainees. Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz described the detainees as "essentially packed into cages, wall-to-wall humans, 32 detainees per cage". Lawmakers were not permitted to view the entire facility.
...
On July 22, people detained on site began a hunger strike to protest what they consider to be inhumane and dangerous living conditions. Some detainees reported maggots in the food and having to "dig the fecal matter out of the toilets with their bare hands" for lack of plumbing. The Florida Division of Emergency Management has denied the claims, but no independent inspections have been allowed.
...
In September 2025, the Miami Herald reported that it couldn't determine the whereabouts of about two-thirds of over 1,800 detainees held at Alligator Alcatraz in July.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I somehow doubt Trump is a machiavellian mastermind. I agree that it looked like an attempt of a coup or the start of a civil war. The reason it's not, is that he's got zero ground troops willing to fight for him. American conservatives are extremely enthusiastic about democracy. When they whine about liberals it's the non-democratic aspects of liberalism, ie the intolerance and lack of intellectual curiousity, that they react against. That's not a foundation upon which to build a dictatorship.

If Trump would call himself a dictator he's got zero powerbase to back him up.

Right now it's typically liberals who struggle with respecting the democratic principles. Not conservatives. That's not how it used to be. But that's how it is now.

edit: I'm not saying that a civil war can't happen. Trump may very well trigger a civil war. But the moment it gets going I can't see Trump leading anything. He's an entitled whiny populist. He's not Cromwell.

He's still replacing the control structures with those loyal to him rather than to the law. But he's not encountering any meaningful opposition in doing so.

How is he doing that? This is stuff I keep hearing but nobody has explained it to me

 

[DrZoidberg]

The problem with calling Trump a fascist is that it relatvises actual fascism. It's the "cry wolf" problem. It's the same thing with calling his policies racist. It relativises actual racism. Has he put in place any laws that limits people based on race? If not, then his policies aren't racist. He can be a racist while his policies aren't racist. To the rape accusation. He hasn't been convicted of rape. So calling him a rapist relativises rape.

The problem with all of this is that it will make us blind to being taken over by actual racist rapist fascist.

You don't need to like Trump to insist that we call him what he actually is, a lying orange clown

Huh?

How is he not a fascist? He's rapidly turning our government into fascism.

This is like calling someone who was rude to you once for a narcisist.

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's just hyperbole. Yes, there's fascist traits. But he's right at the top of a slippery slope, that's not particularly slippery.

Pay more attention. He's gone a long way towards controlling society.

Yet you're able to post here without fear of reprisals. How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

Not a racist? You realize some of his crowd have admitted they intend to purge the country of non-whites?

Where are the racist laws that he's passed?

Laws?! He doesn't care about the law! The Gestapo is stopping people on race alone.

ICE only stopping people who look Mexican is racial profiling. But its not irational. If they wouldn't do it they'd be retarded

Not a rapist? He's admitted to rape.

No, he hasn't. Don't relativise rape. It's a serious crime. Not cool.

Some places specifically limit rape to a penis, others define it as sexual penetration even without it being a penis. The state he did it in uses the strict definition and thus his actions are only sexual assault as the penetration was by a finger, not a penis. But he's basically admitted to doing it.

We reserve the term for "rape" for more serious types of sexual assault. But where the cutoff point is, is inherently arbitrary. New York isn't wrong putting that limit there.

Its important to separate any serious crime from less serious crime in order for us to be able to talk about it and judge it correctly.

I'm not saying Trump is a good person. But if he wasn't convicted of rape its simply incorrect to call him a rapist. He's a "sexual predator". Or possibly "rapey". Or whatever you'd call someone on the less serious rapist spectrum.

 

[unapologetic]

How is he doing that? This is stuff I keep hearing but nobody has explained it to me

In his first week in office he fired, and not replaced, all the Inspector Generals. Oversight is their function.

How come you are not afraid the FBI will come for you and make you disappear?

I AM afraid. (Unapoligetic is not my real name) But nobody listens to me, so my risk is low for now. And I see RESISTANCE as my best protection.

ICE only stopping people who look Mexican is racial profiling. But its not irational. If they wouldn't do it they'd be retarded

If they wouldn't profile they wold be respecting people's 1st admendment rights and the doctrune of 'Probable Cause'. Being Mexican is not probable cause.

 

[Shadowy Man]

He's still replacing the control structures with those loyal to him rather than to the law. But he's not encountering any meaningful opposition in doing so.

How is he doing that? This is stuff I keep hearing but nobody has explained it to me

One recent example is when the DOJ lawyers refused to indict James Comey, because it was obvious to anyone with prosecutorial experience that there was no case, he fired those people and replaced them with his own personal attorney (likely an illegal appointment), who was woefully unqualified for the position. That person then indicted Comey on the flimsiest of charges, which will quite likely be dismissed due to vindictive prosecution if not just for simply using no evidence of a crime.

So, this is exactly a case where he replaced those loyal to the law with someone only loyal to him.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Someone that says Truth Social and Twitter are free speech "extremists" cannot be taken seriously.

How aren't they?

They don't even approximate free speech. It's all about MAGA speech, not free speech for the opposition.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Now you're changing the subject. He's a sexual predator. You'll have no argument from me on that. But calling him a rapist is hyperbole.

I live in a state where his actions meet the legal definition of rape.

The actual legal statues lack cross-linking making it hard to figure out, but a local lawyer has a bunch of such laws clarified. In this case

NRS 200.366 outlaws all types of non-consensual penetrative sex. This includes:

• Vaginal intercourse,
• Oral sex (fellatio or cunnilingus),
• Anilingus or anal sex,
• Digital sex (“fingering”),
• Inserting body parts or objects in a vagina or anus, and/or
• Penetrative sexual acts with an animal (“bestiality“).

My problem is with the hyperbole. Everyone you don't like isn't Hitler. I don't like Trump either. But he's done plenty of actually questionable stuff. There's no need to exagerate or make stuff up.

The more we look and the more he says the more he looks like Hitler 2.0

 

[Elixir]

Fascism?
National Trump derangement?
Anyhow it’s not “only in Murka”. Also in Russia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's the president. If he was a racist then he would probably pass racist laws.

Do you not understand how our system works?

The President can't pass laws. If both House and the Senate pass a measure he can sign it, making it law. Or he can veto it, but a 2/3 vote of both House and Senate can override this veto. Is there any democratic system where the top person passes laws??

I enlarged Judge Kaplan's legal opinion for your benefit. The Judge found for the Plaintiff, while clearly stating that he could find for the plaintiff ONLY if Trump committed rape. (Criminal Rape was not charged in the lawsuit for several simple-to-understand reasons.) Can you paraphrase the reddened sentence into your native tongue for our perusal? It may help us get to the bottom of your poor English comprehension.

I think you're the one struggling with your English.

He wasn't convicted. Rape is a serious crime. Its important to get it right.

Its also not cool smearing someone as a rapist if they're not convicted

He was not ever charged due to the statute of limitations. But note the civil verdict in effect is a legal finding that he did the action.

Yeah, the proud boys are fascist. But they don't have extra legal status, nor are protected by Trump. When they fuck up they get arrested. Sure, a lot of them were pardoned. But Trump isn't systematically protecting them

Fascism is a very sinister ideology. Let's pay attention to the actual fascists. They're a much more serious threat

We see what happened with J6--he pardoned those acting at his command.

 

[RVonse]

He's still replacing the control structures with those loyal to him rather than to the law. But he's not encountering any meaningful opposition in doing so.

How is he doing that? This is stuff I keep hearing but nobody has explained it to me

One recent example is when the DOJ lawyers refused to indict James Comey, because it was obvious to anyone with prosecutorial experience that there was no case, he fired those people and replaced them with his own personal attorney (likely an illegal appointment), who was woefully unqualified for the position. That person then indicted Comey on the flimsiest of charges, which will quite likely be dismissed due to vindictive prosecution if not just for simply using no evidence of a crime.

So, this is exactly a case where he replaced those loyal to the law with someone only loyal to him.

And the Biden administration didn't do this? Or even the Obama administration for that matter? You mean there weren't Republicans complaining about Obama going after them for taxes? Or even any other administration during my lifetime? You think POTUS appointments are for people loyal with the laws they don't want inforced? Of course they fill these agencies with people who are loyal to them...and that was a big weakness for Trump during his first term because he had not yet had experienced or procured enough politically minded people he could trust.

I greatly despise lawfare. And there was a time when I would even be against Trump for going after Comey. But not anymore. I'm still against lawfare if the Trump administration does it against someone who hasn't yet committed lawfare themselves. But in the case with Comey he has been so dirty with his own lawfare...I'm just fine with it for him. Its still not the correct way to run a government, but what else can Trump do to disincentive people so corrupt as Comey?

Comey deserves everything he gets including all the legal fees and other inconvenience (if he gets off with no prison).

 

[Swammerdami]

A Judge’s Home Exploded

There's no evidence it was a politically motivated bombing. And that video is cringe conspiracy theory bullshit by some edgelord dork who's watched too many movies, but wouldn't actually fight if needed. There are already enough real things happening that are of grave concern. We don't need this nonsense.

You realize that makes you sound as naive as those who genuinely believe that Putin's critics just so happen to fall deadly ill with rare disases right after saying something that offended him?

Common sense makes it likely -- albeit not yet proven -- that this Thug^*'s home was targeted by one or more MAGGATs deluded by our Fascist Fuhrer. But so what? It still wouldn't be a REAL crime. Because the bomb's trigger was probably manipulated by a finger, not by a penis. (Cite: this very thread)

(* "Thug" in Newspeak is the current word used to define Judges who rule for the Demoncrats.)

 

[RVonse]

He's the president. If he was a racist then he would probably pass racist laws.

Do you not understand how our system works?

The President can't pass laws. If both House and the Senate pass a measure he can sign it, making it law. Or he can veto it, but a 2/3 vote of both House and Senate can override this veto. Is there any democratic system where the top person passes laws??

Then why did we call it "Obama Care"?

Without your technical legalese most of the rest of us probably figured out what DrZoid meant. If Trump was a racist we would have even more racist laws (like affirmative action) even though the POTUS does not technically create these laws he in fact spearheads them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

He's the president. If he was a racist then he would probably pass racist laws.

Do you not understand how our system works?

The President can't pass laws. If both House and the Senate pass a measure he can sign it, making it law. Or he can veto it, but a 2/3 vote of both House and Senate can override this veto. Is there any democratic system where the top person passes laws??

So I guess its not fascism then

 

[unapologetic]

Fascism is a very sinister ideology. Let's pay attention to the actual fascists. They're a much more serious threat

He is a serious enough threat. You think we should wait till he gets full control, impossable to fight? FRACK YOU.

 

[Elixir]

So I guess its not fascism then

No? Trump is acting as his own legislature and judicial branch.
You guessed wrong.
AGAIN.

 

[unapologetic]

So I guess its not fascism then

Fascist wanta-be. Fascist-in-the-making. Does not need to sucseed in the attempt, to be fascist.