Charlie Kirk shot in Utah

[Toni]

Teenagers are children.

Teenagers (14 to 19) are minors, but they aren't juveniles, hence not children.

Tell that to their parents.

Honestly, your responses suggest you know fuck all about children.

Seriously, people, just use accurate language. Is that so much to ask?

Generally speaking, children are pre-pubescent humans - they're juveniles.
The majority of kids that we think of as "teens" are 14 to 18 (give or take), but generally they're young humans who have already entered puberty.

Pre-pubertal humans are drastically different from pubertal humans in terms of cognition, behaviors, and overall mental development.

All of them can generally be referred to as minors, which is a term associated with legal status.

How about you learn definitions?

Definition of JUVENILE

physiologically immature or undeveloped : young; of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people; of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

juvenile​

1 of 2

adjective​

ju·ve·nile ˈjü-və-ˌnī(-ə)l -nᵊl

Synonyms of juvenile
1
: physiologically immature or undeveloped : YOUNG
juvenile birds


2
a
: of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people
juvenile fiction

b
: of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense
the juvenile justice system

juvenile crime


3
: reflecting psychological or intellectual immaturity : CHILDISH
juvenile behavior

juvenile pranks

told him he was being juvenile


4
: derived from sources within the earth and coming to the surface for the first time

—used especially of water and gas

juvenile

2 of 2

noun​

plural juveniles
1
a
: a young person : YOUTH
often, specifically : an individual who is under an age fixed by law (such as 18 years) at which a person would be charged as an adult for a criminal act
… some states also have been changing their laws to give school administrators more access to the records of juveniles whose cases were processed by juvenile courts. —Peter Schmidt

b
: a book for children or young people

2
: a young individual resembling an adult of its kind except in size and reproductive activity: such as
a
: a fledged bird not yet in adult plumage
b
: a 2-year-old racehorse

3
: an actor or actress who plays youthful parts

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

These assholes learned a valuable lesson that day,

Yeah. Arm up and next time some punk brandishes an AR at a demonstration, don’t try to disarm him; shoot the fucker first.

Seriously, Elixir, do you even care that you're now advocating for outright murder?

Weren't you just complaining about misrepresenting a user's position?

In general, the Stand Your Ground cases all surround the lesson of 'shoot first and the law will have your back'. You just need to be sociopathic enough to do so. And yes, it is awful.

 

[Emily Lake]

Your options facing down a semi-automatic are fewer than a revolver. Then there is the damage by the bullet.

Because six bullets from a pistol somehow do more damage than six bullets from a revolver? It takes the same amount of time to pull the trigger six times for both, you know that, don't you? Are you imagining that all revolvers are old-west single actions?

My meager understanding of magazines for semi-automatic weapons is that 6 bullets is the minimum number in a magazine. Depending on whether the weapon is a handgun or a rifle, magazines can hold much more than 6 bullets. Some revolvers can hold up to 9 bullets (at least that is my understanding).

My point is that your response ignores the basic point that semi-automatic weapons typically have a larger capacity for bullets which allows a shooter to shoot MORE BULLETS than the typical revolver. More bullets mean more potential damage.

That might be your point, not sure it's Jimmy's point.

In your case, the issue is capacity... which has virtually nothing at all to do with the firearm being semi-automatic.

That’s silly. Revolvers hold 6 rounds while semiautomatics typically hold at least twice as many.

Again, your problem seems to be capacity, not the semi-auto status of the firearm. Your issue could be addressed by limiting magazine capacity to 6 or fewer rounds, couldn't it?

Yes, it could. But we aren't allowed to make any changes to guns in America, because it is all a camel nose under the tent to *echo* ban guns */echo*.

There's going to be opposition to anything other than completely unregulated guns. But just because one group of die-hard idiots is standing on the edge of the spectrum of views doesn't mean we can't use our brains and have a grown-up discussion of reasonable regulations that would be effective.

It's also counter-productive for you to be giving me shit about what someone else believes, instead of actually engaging with my view. There's a name for that kind of argument, you know.

 

[Emily Lake]

Teenagers are children.

Teenagers (14 to 19) are minors, but they aren't juveniles, hence not children.

Tell that to their parents.

Honestly, your responses suggest you know fuck all about children.

Seriously, people, just use accurate language. Is that so much to ask?

Generally speaking, children are pre-pubescent humans - they're juveniles.
The majority of kids that we think of as "teens" are 14 to 18 (give or take), but generally they're young humans who have already entered puberty.

Pre-pubertal humans are drastically different from pubertal humans in terms of cognition, behaviors, and overall mental development.

All of them can generally be referred to as minors, which is a term associated with legal status.

How about you learn definitions?

Definition of JUVENILE

physiologically immature or undeveloped : young; of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people; of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

juvenile​

1 of 2

adjective​

ju·ve·nile ˈjü-və-ˌnī(-ə)l -nᵊl

Synonyms of juvenile
1
: physiologically immature or undeveloped : YOUNG
juvenile birds


2
a
: of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people
juvenile fiction

b
: of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense
the juvenile justice system

juvenile crime


3
: reflecting psychological or intellectual immaturity : CHILDISH
juvenile behavior

juvenile pranks

told him he was being juvenile


4
: derived from sources within the earth and coming to the surface for the first time

—used especially of water and gas

juvenile

2 of 2

noun​

plural juveniles
1
a
: a young person : YOUTH
often, specifically : an individual who is under an age fixed by law (such as 18 years) at which a person would be charged as an adult for a criminal act
… some states also have been changing their laws to give school administrators more access to the records of juveniles whose cases were processed by juvenile courts. —Peter Schmidt

b
: a book for children or young people

2
: a young individual resembling an adult of its kind except in size and reproductive activity: such as
a
: a fledged bird not yet in adult plumage
b
: a 2-year-old racehorse

3
: an actor or actress who plays youthful parts

It's right there as the very first definition, Toni:

juvenile​

1 of 2

adjective​

ju·ve·nile ˈjü-və-ˌnī(-ə)l -nᵊl

Synonyms of juvenile
1
: physiologically immature or undeveloped : YOUNG

 

[Toni]

Teenagers are children.

Teenagers (14 to 19) are minors, but they aren't juveniles, hence not children.

Tell that to their parents.

Honestly, your responses suggest you know fuck all about children.

Seriously, people, just use accurate language. Is that so much to ask?

Generally speaking, children are pre-pubescent humans - they're juveniles.
The majority of kids that we think of as "teens" are 14 to 18 (give or take), but generally they're young humans who have already entered puberty.

Pre-pubertal humans are drastically different from pubertal humans in terms of cognition, behaviors, and overall mental development.

All of them can generally be referred to as minors, which is a term associated with legal status.

How about you learn definitions?

Definition of JUVENILE

physiologically immature or undeveloped : young; of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people; of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

juvenile​

1 of 2

adjective​

ju·ve·nile ˈjü-və-ˌnī(-ə)l -nᵊl

Synonyms of juvenile
1
: physiologically immature or undeveloped : YOUNG
juvenile birds


2
a
: of, relating to, characteristic of, or suitable for children or young people
juvenile fiction

b
: of or relating to young people who have committed or are accused of committing a criminal offense
the juvenile justice system

juvenile crime


3
: reflecting psychological or intellectual immaturity : CHILDISH
juvenile behavior

juvenile pranks

told him he was being juvenile


4
: derived from sources within the earth and coming to the surface for the first time

—used especially of water and gas

juvenile

2 of 2

noun​

plural juveniles
1
a
: a young person : YOUTH
often, specifically : an individual who is under an age fixed by law (such as 18 years) at which a person would be charged as an adult for a criminal act
… some states also have been changing their laws to give school administrators more access to the records of juveniles whose cases were processed by juvenile courts. —Peter Schmidt

b
: a book for children or young people

2
: a young individual resembling an adult of its kind except in size and reproductive activity: such as
a
: a fledged bird not yet in adult plumage
b
: a 2-year-old racehorse

3
: an actor or actress who plays youthful parts

It's right there as the very first definition, Toni:

juvenile​

1 of 2

adjective​

ju·ve·nile ˈjü-və-ˌnī(-ə)l -nᵊl

Synonyms of juvenile
1
: physiologically immature or undeveloped : YOUNG

Yes. Under 18, by law. Under 30 or so if one is thinking of emotional development.

 

[Emily Lake]

These assholes learned a valuable lesson that day,

Yeah. Arm up and next time some punk brandishes an AR at a demonstration, don’t try to disarm him; shoot the fucker first.

Seriously, Elixir, do you even care that you're now advocating for outright murder?

Weren't you just complaining about misrepresenting a user's position?

Elixir just made multiple posts in a row asserting that people should shoot first when they see someone with a gun, regardless of what that person is doing.

Which is particularly entertaining, because in the situations he describes, everyone has guns! So it's just a shooting spree from everyone and a murderous rampage.

In general, the Stand Your Ground cases all surround the lesson of 'shoot first and the law will have your back'. You just need to be sociopathic enough to do so. And yes, it is awful.

Do you actually think it's sociopathic to not willingly submit to being a victim? Good people should just surrender themselves to being beaten, raped, or killed by criminals because not doing so is sociopathic in your book?

 

[Emily Lake]

Yes. Under 18, by law. Under 30 or so if one is thinking of emotional development.

PHYSIOLOGICALLY IMMATURE

Are you with a straight face asserting that a 17 year old human is NOT physically mature?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That’s silly. Revolvers hold 6 rounds while semiautomatics typically hold at least twice as many.

Again, your problem seems to be capacity, not the semi-auto status of the firearm. Your issue could be addressed by limiting magazine capacity to 6 or fewer rounds, couldn't it?

Yes, it could. But we aren't allowed to make any changes to guns in America, because it is all a camel nose under the tent to *echo* ban guns */echo*.

There's going to be opposition to anything other than completely unregulated guns. But just because one group of die-hard idiots is standing on the edge of the spectrum of views doesn't mean we can't use our brains and have a grown-up discussion of reasonable regulations that would be effective.

Umm.. yes, it does mean it when one entire political party is voting on legislation like those "die-hard idiots". We aren't talking as if the anti-gun legislation crowd is some small minority.

It's also counter-productive for you to be giving me shit about what someone else believes, instead of actually engaging with my view. There's a name for that kind of argument, you know.

"Giving you shit"? Jebus! Your view is messed up because you are under this bizarre thought that gun control reform is remotely possible, people just need to listen to you.

Sandy Hook was the end for me. I knew that when the NRA came out pre-emptively after all those elementary aged children were slaughtered, we didn't have a chance at any change in the near few decade future. Instead, they put labels on the windows on the outside of schools so that if a school massacre does happen, the responding officers know which room the dead children are in.

 

[bilby]

Elixir just made multiple posts in a row asserting that people should shoot first when they see someone with a gun, regardless of what that person is doing.

Well, that's the only way guns can be defensive in nature. If you wait to find out whether a person with a gun is a threat, it's too late.

Which is particularly entertaining, because in the situations he describes, everyone has guns! So it's just a shooting spree from everyone and a murderous rampage.

Around here, we call that "The United States of America".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

These assholes learned a valuable lesson that day,

Yeah. Arm up and next time some punk brandishes an AR at a demonstration, don’t try to disarm him; shoot the fucker first.

Seriously, Elixir, do you even care that you're now advocating for outright murder?

Weren't you just complaining about misrepresenting a user's position?

Elixir just made multiple posts in a row asserting that people should shoot first when they see someone with a gun, regardless of what that person is doing.

That is what the law protects. I don't agree with that, I know Elixir doesn't either. But Rittenhouse didn't go to jail because he shot first. And you darn well know Elixir isn't advocating manslaughter.

Which is particularly entertaining, because in the situations he describes, everyone has guns! So it's just a shooting spree from everyone and a murderous rampage.

Well, that is the situation of sorts with those in Kenosha. Armed people eyeing each other up and making bad decisions.

In general, the Stand Your Ground cases all surround the lesson of 'shoot first and the law will have your back'. You just need to be sociopathic enough to do so. And yes, it is awful.

Do you actually think it's sociopathic to not willingly submit to being a victim? Good people should just surrender themselves to being beaten, raped, or killed by criminals because not doing so is sociopathic in your book?

In the noted cases of "Stand your ground", generally people were inserting themselves where they shouldn't have been because they knew they had an out with their gun.

Further, I think it is sociopathic to shoot and kill someone and show no remorse at all. Kind of the definition, isn't it? Rittenhouse has shown no regret for being there when he very much shouldn't have and killing people. He had his little acting performance about how scared he was. But outside the courtroom, he has let his killings elevate him, when a non-sociopathic person would, in part, be haunted by it. Even if it was legitimate self-defense.

We had laws prior to Stand your ground that allows people the use of self-defense. But it set in reasonable limits to it. Stand Your Ground muddled it all.

 

[laughing dog]

Your options facing down a semi-automatic are fewer than a revolver. Then there is the damage by the bullet.

Because six bullets from a pistol somehow do more damage than six bullets from a revolver? It takes the same amount of time to pull the trigger six times for both, you know that, don't you? Are you imagining that all revolvers are old-west single actions?

My meager understanding of magazines for semi-automatic weapons is that 6 bullets is the minimum number in a magazine. Depending on whether the weapon is a handgun or a rifle, magazines can hold much more than 6 bullets. Some revolvers can hold up to 9 bullets (at least that is my understanding).

My point is that your response ignores the basic point that semi-automatic weapons typically have a larger capacity for bullets which allows a shooter to shoot MORE BULLETS than the typical revolver. More bullets mean more potential damage.

That might be your point, not sure it's Jimmy's point.

In your case, the issue is capacity... which has virtually nothing at all to do with the firearm being semi-automatic.

That’s silly. Revolvers hold 6 rounds while semiautomatics typically hold at least twice as many.

Again, your problem seems to be capacity, not the semi-auto status of the firearm. Your issue could be addressed by limiting magazine capacity to 6 or fewer rounds, couldn't it?

The semi-auto process is the problem because of the ease of reloading and the capacity. Limiting capacity would require more intrusive inspections/enforcement.

 

[Elixir]

If you are personally heartbroken every time a child anywhere on the planet dies, then you're never going to have time to get anything done in your life.

Right on sister. Goes triple for a fetus.

Stop intentionally misrepresenting my views. It's intentionally malicious and uncivil.

I didn’t represent your views, let alone MISrepresent them. I just presented MY agreement and my reason for it.

 

[Elixir]

The semi-auto process is the problem because of the ease of reloading and the capacity. Limiting capacity would require more intrusive inspections/enforcement.

Indeed. I wish I could find my old pal Travis Haley’s video of changing semi auto handgun mags - less than a second between the last shot of one mag and the first shot from the next.
Admittedly that is a skill level beyond that of your average redneck, but even Bubba can send 10-12 times more lead down range with a semi auto handgun than with a revolver.

 

[Jarhyn]

If you are personally heartbroken every time a child anywhere on the planet dies, then you're never going to have time to get anything done in your life.

Right on sister. Goes triple for a fetus.

Stop intentionally misrepresenting my views. It's intentionally malicious and uncivil.

I didn’t represent your views, let alone MISrepresent them. I just presented MY agreement and my reason for it.

I found that rather ironic, myself.

Like, how can she possibly be taken seriously with a double-standard like that?

 

[Derec]

Are you just now catching on to the whole open carry is a bad thing idea?

No. I do not know if you are mixing me up with somebody else, but I was never a proponent of open carry.

I remember seeing what appeared to an assault like rifle in a car waiting to go into the parade of cars leaving the Jayland Walker service. Wasn't happy to see that.

What do you mean?

Btw, Jayland Walker shot at police during the car chase. That the idiot Akron politicians made his family millionaires is unconscionable!

Why do folks mock people for not liking open carry, and then point to this situation as an example as to why open carry is stupid, particularly in an urban (or suburban) setting.

I do not like open carry myself, but we should be consistent. You can't support left-wingers and blacks open carrying, and even occupying territory like in Seattle and Atlanta, but object to somebody carrying a rifle to protect a business from left-wing arsonists and looters.

So, people would be justified to "blow [the] fucking heads off" all the armed leftist protesters, right?

Are there that many?

Yes, there have been that many. Especially in 2020. "Not Fucking Around Coalition" protested in places like Georgia (Ahmad Arbury) and Kentucky (Breonna Taylor). New Black Panthers also have armed protests. Antifa/#BLM occupied the "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" for weeks. In Atlanta, the area around the Wendy's (that they also burned down) where drunk driver Rayshard Brooks was killed was also occupied by armed "protesters", and they murdered an 8-year old girl in the process. And in Austin, a leftist protester Garrett Foster was carrying a AK47 and had his "fucking head" blown off because another man, Daniel Perry, felt threatened. Was that justified as well?

 

[Derec]

Who brought up the twerp in this thread?

That would be Patchy all the way back in post #353.

Yes, no doubt. Failure of a lib person to bear arms and use them when feeling threatened by an adolescent punk with a AR other person, is currently held to indemnify the punk threat, should that person go through with killing the threatened party who should have defended Themself.

What are you babbling about? Rosenbaum was the aggressor here. Ritt wasn't threatening him, he just went off because he is a mentally disturbed and violent individual. In addition to raping those boys (9-11 year olds, dude!) he also beat up his fiancée. That is why he could not stay with her after being released from a mental hospital and carried all his worldly possession in a bag he, without provocation, threw at Ritt.

Rosenburg should have shot him for sure.
Saved Huber's life and his own. A Twofer.

Who is "Rosenburg"? Rosenbaum could have saved Huber's life and his own by not attacking somebody.

It's fucked up, fer sure.

Your opinion on this case sure is fucked up.

Again, It's fucked up, but it's simple.
Ritt was the one who was attacked first, by a person who felt threatened by him.

Wrong! Rosenbaum was belligerent toward other people that night. Then he decided to chase and attack a teenager. It has nothing to do with being threatened. And even if he felt threatened, why did he not seek to remove himself from the area, instead of escalating the situation by, as you admit, attacking the person?

Another thing. In 2020, in Austin, there was a leftist #BLM protester who was armed with an AK47.

What We Know About the Austin BLM Protest Shooting
An Uber driver felt threatened and shot him dead. Do you think that was justified? He was convicted of murder but the Texas Governor pardoned him. Do you support the pardon because the very presence of an armed person at a protest is per se threatening in your view? Or do you not support it because this armed person shared your ideology? Is it different because the AK47 is a proper proletarian weapon, while AR15 is an evil imperialist one?

Never bring a knife to a gunfight, y'know. Rittenhouse won an armed encounter with superior weaponry.

That does not change the fact that Ritt was defending himself, and that Rosenbaum was the aggressor.

I'm not sure what happened later with Grosskreutz, but neutralizing the threat initially, would have saved him some trauma too.

Prediger né Grosskreutz pointed his gun at Ritt, after Ritt was already hit with the skateboard by Huber. Then Ritt successfully "disarmed" him.

Of course Ol' Rosenburg would probably still have ended up in jail, given the political climate. A jury would surely side with the poor little boy murdered "unprovoked" by a random commie lib.

Had Rosenbaum killed Ritt after attacking him, he should have been convicted of murder, no question. Although in the current political climate, lefties like you would be supporting the murderer.

 

[Toni]

Yes. Under 18, by law. Under 30 or so if one is thinking of emotional development.

PHYSIOLOGICALLY IMMATURE

Are you with a straight face asserting that a 17 year old human is NOT physically mature?

Some are; some are not. If you were to say, pit the average healthy 17 year old male against an average healthy 28-30 year old male in say, a fist fight or say, a boxing match, the older person would win. Surely you don’t think the star quarterback of an high school football team is physically as mature as his brother who is the star quarterback on his university football team? Same for most competitions requiring skill and strength. On average, a 25-30 year old woman would be more physically ( and emotionally and socially and financially) able to carry a fetus to term and deliver safely.

A lot of 17 year old boys still do not need to shave and have pretty undeveloped musculature. A lot of 17 year girls have very small breasts and a few have not yet started to menstruate. Most still struggle with acne. Some of the boys still are undergoing voice changes.

If you consider emotional stability and maturity, very few 17 year olds are as ‘mature’ as their counterparts parts who are 10 years older or even 5 years older.

Certainly individuals in their mid twenties and above are better equipped to become parents, physically, emotionally, financially.

It’s almost as though being 17 or 18 isn’t the same as reaching full physical, cognitive, psychological or emotional maturity.

Huh.

Or maybe you mean capable of producing offspring? Having well developed secondary sexual characteristics? Are you a sock of Derec?

We ‘decided’ that 18 was ‘adult’ so that we could draft 18 year olds to fight in wars. No one comes back from war without some measure of PTSD. If they are fortunate, that’s the worst of it—not in any way minimizing the ravages of PTSD, which can be long lasting. But the ones who suffer the most, on average, are the very young ones, who have not fully matured, emotionally or psychologically,

 

[Derec]

You're projecting.

I'm not crying about the results of the trial.

Do you even know what "projecting" means?

I am attempting to correct your misconceptions about it and about the events in Kenosha by providing facts and accounts from reliable sources.

LMAO. You and your Ilk are doing the opposite - you are promulgating falsehoods about this case.

I think getting the facts straight is important,

Indeed. So why don't you start?

 

[Derec]

Indeed. I wish I could find my old pal Travis Haley’s video of changing semi auto handgun mags - less than a second between the last shot of one mag and the first shot from the next.

A skilled person with a speedloader could reload a revolver almost as fast.

Also, why is reloading even being brought up? The original statement I was replying was about having a semiauto gun pointed at you.

I agree, actually. But people get pissed/anxious when someone points a semi auto weapon at them.

In that situation, one bullet is all it takes, and a revolver is just as deadly. Even more so, depending on caliber. A .25 ACP semiauto vs. a .45 Magnum revolver for example.

 

[Arctish]

Yes. Under 18, by law. Under 30 or so if one is thinking of emotional development.

PHYSIOLOGICALLY IMMATURE

Are you with a straight face asserting that a 17 year old human is NOT physically mature?

Their outward appearance might not change much after 17 but their brain is still developing, which in turn is reflected in their behavior. Current medical research indicates those changes are pretty much complete at 25 years of age but might take a bit longer in some individuals.