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Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to the previous question. If you think you could justify forcing a mother to vaccinate her child because of the needless suffering of her child if she doesn't, and her child dies immediately after the vaccine, tell me how you could justify forcing every vaccine, now up to 90 doses throughout childhood (from what I gathered), if you look at the ones that have two and three vaccines in one jab. Could you justify this force by saying it was for the greater good? Or by saying that her child was just one of the unfortunate ones, but that it was a noble act? Tell me, bilby how you would justify force, and please don't give me your platitudes that won't help you from feeling tremendous guilt
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to my concerns in the previous post. Why? Is it that you can't answer them without giving a knee-jerk reaction to the thought that someone may have concerns over 90 doses of vaccine from birth through the teenage years? What if you were the enforcer of that mandate and you told a mother that she must follow the guidelines because it's for her child's own good? She grudgingly complies because she doesn't have a real choice (since her child will be thrown out of school) and then the unimaginable happens: her child dies from complications. No association that it could have been the vaccine; it was a direct cause of this child's death. Would you tell her that it was unfortunate that her child died, but it was a noble act? Would you tell her that sometimes these things happen but it was for the greater good? Do you think that would satisfy her, especially when she had concerns about that very vaccine? How would you feel? Do you think you would be able to rationalize it in your own mind and feel no remorse? Really? I don't think so. I think you would have nightmares if you had even a little bit of conscience.
 
These derails are diverting attention away form the most serious and impactful discussion on the revolutionary new thoughts on free will and determinism.

It is no less than the future and survival of the human race.

Started a vaccination thread on Natural Science 'Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions'

Suggest Peacegirl take it there, there will probably be a wider response.
I have no desire to start a vaccination thread. I didn’t bring this topic up. Pood did to try to get people to question my credibility.

Your credibility was shot long ago, with the babble about light and sight.
 
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.


And why should anyone consider your opinion?
 
RFKjr is not a reuiabale credible source for health an medical information.


Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said at a Senate hearing on Thursday that children receive up to 92 vaccine doses in early childhood "in order to be fully compliant between maternity and 18 years."

But doctors tell ABC News that that number isn't accurate. Excluding annual flu and COVID-19 shots, children generally receive roughly 30 vaccine doses – many in combined injections – before the age of 18

Combination vaccines are single shots that include two or more vaccines that might otherwise be given separately: the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine is a common example. This reduces the number of shots children get while protecting them from the same number of infectious diseases.

Additionally, vaccines given today contain far fewer antigens – that is, substances that trigger an immune response in the body – than vaccines did decades ago. Research has shown these vaccines are safe and effective and do not overwhelm the immune system, as Kennedy has previously suggested.
 
Could this be true?

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.
I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.
I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

Next you'll be telling me how smoke detectors cause brain tumors and airbags cause acne.

If the reasons to vaccinate aren't good enough for you, that's really not my concern. If you don't want to be vaccinated or vaccinate your children, don't mistake the threat of a quarantine for force. It's just society's way of dealing with people who are a threat to others. It's not personal.

If you want to convince me there's a general hazard in vaccines, you'll need to bring more to the table than RKFjr Children's Health Defense. As it is, all you have is vague doubts and libertarian pabulum.
Didn't answer my questions. Just more of the same fake disgust by vaccinators that anyone would have the nerve to argue with the science. Don’t they know the science has been settled and there’s nothing more to say? HOW DARE THEM!!!
 
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Didn't answer my questions. Just more of the same fake disgust by vaccinators that anyone would dare argue with what appears to be an affront to science itself. HOW DARE THEM!!!

You don’t have any legitimate questions to answer. Just like with light and sight, you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Didn't answer my questions. Just more of the same fake disgust by vaccinators that anyone would dare argue with what appears to be an affront to science itself. HOW DARE THEM!!!

You don’t have any legitimate questions to answer. Just like with light and sight, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I won’t let you bring a controversial topic into the discussion that is not at all related. You’re being extremely underhanded.
 
Could this be true?

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.
I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.
I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

Next you'll be telling me how smoke detectors cause brain tumors and airbags cause acne.

If the reasons to vaccinate aren't good enough for you, that's really not my concern. If you don't want to be vaccinated or vaccinate your children, don't mistake the threat of a quarantine for force. It's just society's way of dealing with people who are a threat to others. It's not personal.

If you want to convince me there's a general hazard in vaccines, you'll need to bring more to the table than RKFjr Children's Health Defense. As it is, all you have is vague doubts and libertarian pabulum.
Didn't answer my questions. Just more of the same fake disgust by vaccinators that anyone would have the nerve to argue with the science. Don’t they know the science has been settled and there’s nothing more to say? HOW DARE THEM!!!
You didn't ask any questions and you didn't raise any issues worth more discussion.
 
Could this be true?

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.
I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.
I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

Next you'll be telling me how smoke detectors cause brain tumors and airbags cause acne.

If the reasons to vaccinate aren't good enough for you, that's really not my concern. If you don't want to be vaccinated or vaccinate your children, don't mistake the threat of a quarantine for force. It's just society's way of dealing with people who are a threat to others. It's not personal.

If you want to convince me there's a general hazard in vaccines, you'll need to bring more to the table than RKFjr Children's Health Defense. As it is, all you have is vague doubts and libertarian pabulum.
Didn't answer my questions. Just more of the same fake disgust by vaccinators that anyone would have the nerve to argue with the science. Don’t they know the science has been settled and there’s nothing more to say? HOW DARE THEM!!!
You didn't ask any questions and you didn't raise any issues worth more discussion.
I guess you didn't read the summary of the book "Forbidden Facts." You are entitled to dispute his research and take it up with him.

Have Government agencies and big corporations ever created and promoted outright lies and cover-ups?

Of course they have. When they do it together, that is the definition of conspiracy.

Internationally recognized criminologist and bestselling author of The Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker, investigates how the Government ‘debunks’ inconvenient and unwanted truths. This story of true crime includes bogus research, bribes, compromised experts, paid conspirators, destruction of evidence, and massive publicity campaigns to discredit people and truths that don’t fit official wishes.

Readers are provided real-time access to original source material that clearly details how Government agencies and Big Pharma have routinely conspired to deceive the public on matters of profound importance.
 
So it is true!. ET bodies found in a spaceship crash have been dissected at Area 51.

I knew it, a government coverup.
 
So it is true!. ET bodies found in a spaceship crash have been dissected at Area 51.

I knew it, a government coverup.
It boils down to whether we should trust everything the government is telling us and if there are legitimate concerns. He writes: "Hyperlinks throughout this book link directly to original source material that can be assessed for accuracy and credibility. This way, each reader can decide what's promotion, what's marketing, what's propaganda, what's plain lies, and what is truth.
 
The born-agains in my extended family are not only anti-vaxxers but climate change deniers. That fits together well, dunnit? One of my cousins told me, at the height of the covid epidemic, that she was proudly not going to vax and that she was doing all the right things to be healthy. (At this time, between 3000 and 4000 Americans were dying from covid daily.) I don't argue with people like her, it's a waste of breath. All I could think was, you careless idiot, you could feel fine and pass the virus on to some elderly person on your block -- and in effect kill that person. Good little Christian. Here was a perfectly magnificent achievement, a vaccine arriving in less than a year's time, exhibiting the best of man's scientific expertise and the dedication of hundreds of research scientists, and she had some dumbass ideological reason to reject it. RFK Jr. is the same kind of reckless nutcase, only in his case, he will be responsible for untold numbers of deaths (as will Trump/Musk, for an unrelated action.) I can't believe anyone on this thread would defend him. In each of his appearances before Congressional committees, his Trump-level ignorance and belligerence has been amply on display. This is dark ages stuff. Hard to watch the ascendancy of stupidity in this country.
I had family members that did the same. Two of them died.
 
Could this be true?

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.
I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.
I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

No one is FORCED to vaccinate now, so what are you going on about??
 
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to the previous question. If you think you could justify forcing a mother to vaccinate her child because of the needless suffering of her child if she doesn't, and her child dies immediately after the vaccine, tell me how you could justify forcing every vaccine, now up to 90 doses throughout childhood (from what I gathered), if you look at the ones that have two and three vaccines in one jab. Could you justify this force by saying it was for the greater good? Or by saying that her child was just one of the unfortunate ones, but that it was a noble act? Tell me, bilby how you would justify force, and please don't give me your platitudes that won't help you from feeling tremendous guilt
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to my concerns in the previous post. Why? Is it that you can't answer them without giving a knee-jerk reaction to the thought that someone may have concerns over 90 doses of vaccine from birth through the teenage years? What if you were the enforcer of that mandate and you told a mother that she must follow the guidelines because it's for her child's own good? She grudgingly complies because she doesn't have a real choice (since her child will be thrown out of school) and then the unimaginable happens: her child dies from complications. No association that it could have been the vaccine; it was a direct cause of this child's death. Would you tell her that it was unfortunate that her child died, but it was a noble act? Would you tell her that sometimes these things happen but it was for the greater good? Do you think that would satisfy her, especially when she had concerns about that very vaccine? How would you feel? Do you think you would be able to rationalize it in your own mind and feel no remorse? Really? I don't think so. I think you would have nightmares if you had even a little bit of conscience.
Again, no one is FORCING a vaccine. However, if you choose not to vaccinate, you may have consequences such as quarantine or being unable to attend public school. No one has EVER held someone down and FORCED a vaccine into their arm. Your "what if...." is bullshit because the premise does not exist.
 
So it is true!. ET bodies found in a spaceship crash have been dissected at Area 51.

I knew it, a government coverup.
It boils down to whether we should trust everything the government is telling us and if there are legitimate concerns. He writes: "Hyperlinks throughout this book link directly to original source material that can be assessed for accuracy and credibility. This way, each reader can decide what's promotion, what's marketing, what's propaganda, what's plain lies, and what is truth.
I trust my physicians and scientists. I'm intelligent enough to review/interpret their research if so desired (unlike RFK).
 
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to the previous question. If you think you could justify forcing a mother to vaccinate her child because of the needless suffering of her child if she doesn't, and her child dies immediately after the vaccine, tell me how you could justify forcing every vaccine, now up to 90 doses throughout childhood (from what I gathered), if you look at the ones that have two and three vaccines in one jab. Could you justify this force by saying it was for the greater good? Or by saying that her child was just one of the unfortunate ones, but that it was a noble act? Tell me, bilby how you would justify force, and please don't give me your platitudes that won't help you from feeling tremendous guilt
As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.
As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?
You didn't respond to my concerns in the previous post. Why? Is it that you can't answer them without giving a knee-jerk reaction to the thought that someone may have concerns over 90 doses of vaccine from birth through the teenage years? What if you were the enforcer of that mandate and you told a mother that she must follow the guidelines because it's for her child's own good? She grudgingly complies because she doesn't have a real choice (since her child will be thrown out of school) and then the unimaginable happens: her child dies from complications. No association that it could have been the vaccine; it was a direct cause of this child's death. Would you tell her that it was unfortunate that her child died, but it was a noble act? Would you tell her that sometimes these things happen but it was for the greater good? Do you think that would satisfy her, especially when she had concerns about that very vaccine? How would you feel? Do you think you would be able to rationalize it in your own mind and feel no remorse? Really? I don't think so. I think you would have nightmares if you had even a little bit of conscience.
Again, no one is FORCING a vaccine. However, if you choose not to vaccinate, you may have consequences such as quarantine or being unable to attend public school. No one has EVER held someone down and FORCED a vaccine into their arm. Your "what if...." is bullshit because the premise does not exist.
No one has held someone down, true. This isn't about quarantining a person; it's about preventing him from attending altogether. I am not anti-vaccine or pro-vaccine. I'm for informed consent and free choice. The science is not as settled as you may think. And if I dare question the safety and efficacy of all these vaccines that are growing in number, I'm considered a baby killer? :rolleyes:

 
So it is true!. ET bodies found in a spaceship crash have been dissected at Area 51.

I knew it, a government coverup.
It boils down to whether we should trust everything the government is telling us and if there are legitimate concerns.
We shouldn't trust everything the government is telling us. We should trust several decades of data proving the effectiveness of vaccinations.
He writes: "Hyperlinks throughout this book link directly to original source material that can be assessed for accuracy and credibility. This way, each reader can decide what's promotion, what's marketing, what's propaganda, what's plain lies, and what is truth.
Yes and I saw footnotes for claims of abortion causing breast cancer or issues on fluoride. I've seen people burn a snowball with a torch and think it meant something. I've seen someone stack paper loops and washers to prove the WTC collapse was an inside job.

Numerical superscripts aren't magic.

The US has a dreadful infant mortality rate for the first world. It isn't because of vaccinations. We have issues with the presence of micro-plastics and PFAS in our aquifers.

It'd be nice is the anti-vaxxer movement would support trying to fix actual problems instead of playing poor man's medical detective trying to connect dots that do not exist, trying to convince people to let their children get sicker than they need to.
 
You didn't respond to the previous question. If you think you could justify forcing a mother to vaccinate her child because of the needless suffering of her child if she doesn't, and her child dies immediately after the vaccine, tell me...
First provide evidence that this is even a vague possibility.

If a child dies immediately after a vaccination, it is far more likely to ve because it was hit by a bus while its mum was pushing it across the road in a pram, than it is that the vaccine somehow caused the death.

So you need to show:

a) That children can die immediately after vaccination;
b) From causes directly related to the vaccination; and
c) That this is likely enough to justify caution before vaccinating a child.

You have shown NONE of these things.

You are emoting, and you are throwing every cognitive error and logical fallacy you can come up with out, in the desperate hope that someone will forgive you for your frankly evil stance on this issue.

You need to learn how to think. Logic is not something you can just wing.

And you need to stop encouraging people to cause direct and avoidable harm to children by failing to vaccinate them against preventable diseases.

You never responded to my earlier question, "What if rocks fall upwards?".

If you think about why you didn't respond, then you might just get an inkling about why I didn't respond to your equally sensible question. But then, thinking is hard, and you seem disinclined to even attempt to learn how to do it effectively.
 
I won’t let you bring a controversial topic into the discussion that is not at all related.
You won't LET him?

You seem to have a very inflated idea of your own worth.

By the way, literally anyone can and is welcome to question anything in science. That's what makes it science. But they need to being reproducible evidence. And you have none.
 
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