Immigration Issues

[laughing dog]

Well, Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Jacob Frey have done it again. Stirred up emotions to prompt another soft headed and gullible stooge to interfere with federal agents and tragically, the stooge has been killed. Cannon fodder for the clowns Tim and Frey.

I wish they had mowed you people down on the steps of the Capitol. My SHTF retribution list just keeps getting longer and longer.

“You people”? What are you on about? Interesting that you would be okay with “mowing people down” when you find that behavior objectionable.

In any event, this has been another tragic and totally avoidable incident but unfortunately there will probably more thanks to the irresponsible rhetoric of clowns like Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey.

You people are gleeful when the government kills some “soy boy”. Fair is fair.

Behave yourself.

You're excusing murder and you're telling people to "behave themselves".

The problem is that the ICE agents are strictly following the advice to behave themselves,

 

[TSwizzle]

Dangerous situations? Neither of those siuations were dangerous until ICE escalated it. Escalation blessed by DoJ, DHS, and Trump. They don't regret the deaths at all.

Inserting yourself into ICE operations is not only stupid but incredibly dangerous. These aren’t peaceful protesters, they are deliberately trying to disrupt ICE operations and that is illegal

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well, Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Jacob Frey have done it again. Stirred up emotions to prompt another soft headed and gullible stooge to interfere with federal agents and tragically, the stooge has been killed. Cannon fodder for the clowns Tim and Frey.

I wish they had mowed you people down on the steps of the Capitol. My SHTF retribution list just keeps getting longer and longer.

“You people”? What are you on about? Interesting that you would be okay with “mowing people down” when you find that behavior objectionable.

In any event, this has been another tragic and totally avoidable incident but unfortunately there will probably more thanks to the irresponsible rhetoric of clowns like Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey.

You people are gleeful when the government kills some “soy boy”. Fair is fair.

Behave yourself. I am certainly not gleeful about these poor saps foolishly putting themselves in danger because they have been manipulated by clowns like Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey. They are the ones that will be gleeful, not me.

Of more importance is DHS and DoJ have condoned these killings and abusive attacks on American citizens.

It doesn't matter what you or I think. This immoral shit is going to continue.

It will continue while soft headed saps insert themselves into dangerous situations after being encouraged to do so by the likes of Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey.

It will continue as long as a bunch of mall security guards wearing masks try to do mature work but are allowed to violate the Constitution by fascists and collaborators give Otherism excuses for cover. Only telling the truth can expose these chickenshits.

 

[Bomb#20]

The term "concentration camp" being thrown around is hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did.

That's wrong on so many levels. The term "concentration camp" is entirely apt for places like 'alligator alcatraz', it describes them accurately and correctly.

And Nazis didn't invent the concentration camp; It was a British invention, used in South Africa in the Boer War, two decades before the NSDAP was even thought of.

The novelty the Nazis came up with was the extermination or death camp. Nobody is suggesting that these have been deployed in the US.

Yet.

The implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis.

Not to me. But then, I know some history.

Says the guy who thinks the British invented them. The U.S. and Spain used them decades before the Boer War, and probably many other countries before that in the days when war crimes tended to be less documented.

People throwing the word around are either intending just that and aren't referring to in any other historical context but that.

Are you sure? How do you know this?

Um, because one of the people throwing the word around was Toni, and she straight-up admitted it was intended to evoke Nazis. Godwin rules the interwebs.

And sorry, but hyperbolic liberals are using the term to describe what's happening in the U.S.

As I said, it's not hyperbole. The term "concentration camp" is entirely apt for places like 'alligator alcatraz', it describes them accurately and correctly.

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on? There's always someone who can out-tedious and out-pedantic you. No, describing it accurately and correctly, egregious as it is, Alligator Alcatraz is no more a concentration camp than Andersonville was. As ld said,

"Unapologetic pointed out the US had concentration camps for Japanese Americans in WW2. The first reservations for Native Americans were concentration camps. Spain used concentration camps to detain Cubans during their war. Historically, a concentration camp is a facility with large numbers if persecuted minorities or political prisoners under harsh conditions."​

People were sent to Andersonville not for being Yankees or for opposing slavery, but for making war on the Confederacy. Likewise, people are sent to Alligator Alcatraz not for being Latino or for opposing ICE, but for entering the U.S. without permission or for not leaving when their permission expired. That's why Manzanar was a concentration camp but Alligator Alcatraz is not. You may think entering without permission shouldn't be illegal, but your opinion doesn't make illegal immigrants a persecuted minority, any more than a communist's opinion that private property should be abolished makes burglars a persecuted minority and makes the LA County Jail a concentration camp.[/tedious][/pedantic]

Good job on those deck chairs.

Thanks for noticing! In this metaphor, the Titanic is the endless 'AA is a concentration camp' cant, the iceberg is Colonel Sanders, the gash in the hull is 'The term "concentration camp" being thrown around is hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did.', the guy trying to save the ship by rearranging the deck chairs is bilby, and the deck chairs are "Nazis didn't invent the concentration camp; It was a British invention". My job was merely pointing out bilby's rearrangement won't actually save the ship. Of course the implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis.

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on?

ICE has murdered two US civilians with the blessing of the Trump Admin in DHS and DoJ. And this is the pedantic ... you are whining about?

You got a problem with pedantic whining, take it up with bilby.

 

[laughing dog]

The term "

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on?

ICE has murdered two US civilians with the blessing of the Trump Admin in DHS and DoJ. And this is the pedantic ... you are whining about?

You got a problem with pedantic whining, take it up with bilby.

Why are you shifting the buck?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Dangerous situations? Neither of those siuations were dangerous until ICE escalated it. Escalation blessed by DoJ, DHS, and Trump. They don't regret the deaths at all.

Inserting yourself into ICE operations is not only stupid but incredibly dangerous. These aren’t peaceful protesters, they are deliberately trying to disrupt ICE operations and that is illegal

Submit or pay the consequences, the new Right-wing..

 

[TSwizzle]

Dangerous situations? Neither of those siuations were dangerous until ICE escalated it. Escalation blessed by DoJ, DHS, and Trump. They don't regret the deaths at all.

Inserting yourself into ICE operations is not only stupid but incredibly dangerous. These aren’t peaceful protesters, they are deliberately trying to disrupt ICE operations and that is illegal

Submit or pay the consequences, the new Right-wing..

Submit to what exactly? What are you talking about?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes more like.

 

[bilby]

Submit to what exactly?

The abrogation of your first and fourth amendment rights. And now, it seems, your second amendment rights, too.

What's next, ICE agents being quartered in your home?

 

[unapologetic]

Of course the implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis.

As it should.
I don't know about your jurisdiction.
Where I live Due Process Of The Law is that a suspect can not be held more than 24 hours without being seen by a judge.
A judge will; set a trial date, extend the stay in 'holding', set bail, or dismiss the case. and Etc.
Due Process is set up to PREVENT an Alligator Oubliette or a Death Camp.
The lack of Due Process is a red flag that SHOULD evoke concentration camps and Nazis.
Alligator Oubliette was a Concentration Camp.

 

[Bomb#20]

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on?

ICE has murdered two US civilians with the blessing of the Trump Admin in DHS and DoJ. And this is the pedantic ... you are whining about?

You got a problem with pedantic whining, take it up with bilby.

Why are you shifting the buck?

Why would the buck stop with me? Who am I, Harry Truman? Why did you snip the part of my post that answered your question? Why do you have a problem with me being pedantic when you didn't have a problem with bilby being pedantic? When bilby practically begged for some other pedant to correctly point out he was wrong, wouldn't it have been rude to refuse? And above all, why were you ever defending bilby and arguing with Colonel Sanders in the first place? Colonel Sanders was obviously right.

The term "concentration camp" being thrown around is hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did.

That's wrong on so many levels. The term "concentration camp" is entirely apt for places like 'alligator alcatraz', it describes them accurately and correctly.

And Nazis didn't invent the concentration camp; It was a British invention, used in South Africa in the Boer War, two decades before the NSDAP was even thought of.

The novelty the Nazis came up with was the extermination or death camp. Nobody is suggesting that these have been deployed in the US.

Yet.

The implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis. People throwing the word around are either intending just that and aren't referring to in any other historical context but that. And sorry, but hyperbolic liberals are using the term to describe what's happening in the U.S.

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Are you intending that irony?

Sure, it's so ironic to want to discourage hyperbole and depending on the individual the ignorant or willful misuse of a term that has deep historical connotations. But intellectual and linguistic dishonesty is fine as long as you're the one doing it, right?…

So a continuation of clueless irony.

Unapologetic pointed out the US had concentration camps for Japanese Americans in WW2. The first reservations for Native Americans were concentration camps. Spain used concentration camps to detain Cubans during their war.

Historically, a concentration camp is a facility with large numbers if persecuted minorities or political prisoners under harsh conditions. There is no necessary intellectual or linguistic dishonesty in describing internment camps as “concentration camps” if they fit the historical definition.

Why did you point those facts out as though they justify bilby and refute Colonel Sanders? AA is not an internment camp; it does not fit the historical definition of "concentration camp"; its inmates are neither persecuted minorities nor political prisoners.

 

[Toni]

It’s inmates exactly are persecuted minoriti

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on?

ICE has murdered two US civilians with the blessing of the Trump Admin in DHS and DoJ. And this is the pedantic ... you are whining about?

You got a problem with pedantic whining, take it up with bilby.

Why are you shifting the buck?

Why would the buck stop with me? Who am I, Harry Truman? Why did you snip the part of my post that answered your question? Why do you have a problem with me being pedantic when you didn't have a problem with bilby being pedantic? When bilby practically begged for some other pedant to correctly point out he was wrong, wouldn't it have been rude to refuse? And above all, why were you ever defending bilby and arguing with Colonel Sanders in the first place? Colonel Sanders was obviously right.

The term "concentration camp" being thrown around is hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did.

That's wrong on so many levels. The term "concentration camp" is entirely apt for places like 'alligator alcatraz', it describes them accurately and correctly.

And Nazis didn't invent the concentration camp; It was a British invention, used in South Africa in the Boer War, two decades before the NSDAP was even thought of.

The novelty the Nazis came up with was the extermination or death camp. Nobody is suggesting that these have been deployed in the US.

Yet.

The implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis. People throwing the word around are either intending just that and aren't referring to in any other historical context but that. And sorry, but hyperbolic liberals are using the term to describe what's happening in the U.S.

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Are you intending that irony?

Sure, it's so ironic to want to discourage hyperbole and depending on the individual the ignorant or willful misuse of a term that has deep historical connotations. But intellectual and linguistic dishonesty is fine as long as you're the one doing it, right?…

So a continuation of clueless irony.

Unapologetic pointed out the US had concentration camps for Japanese Americans in WW2. The first reservations for Native Americans were concentration camps. Spain used concentration camps to detain Cubans during their war.

Historically, a concentration camp is a facility with large numbers if persecuted minorities or political prisoners under harsh conditions. There is no necessary intellectual or linguistic dishonesty in describing internment camps as “concentration camps” if they fit the historical definition.

Why did you point those facts out as though they justify bilby and refute Colonel Sanders? AA is not an internment camp; it does not fit the historical definition of "concentration camp"; its inmates are neither persecuted minorities nor political prisoners.

Those incarcerated at Alligator Alcatraz ARE persecuted minorities and political prisoners.

 

[Bomb#20]

Oh for the love of god. A quarter of the people sent to Dachau died there. How many inmates have died at Alligator Alcatraz?

I agree the comparison is flawed

Glad to hear it.

, but your metric is also a bit misleading. You are looking at the end result of a 12-year process and applying it to the beginning. <rest snipped>

Fair enough. So, do you expect AA will have a similar death rate if it stays in operation for 12 years?

 

[Toni]

Oh for the love of god. A quarter of the people sent to Dachau died there. How many inmates have died at Alligator Alcatraz?

I agree the comparison is flawed

Glad to hear it.

, but your metric is also a bit misleading. You are looking at the end result of a 12-year process and applying it to the beginning. <rest snipped>

Fair enough. So, do you expect AA will have a similar death rate if it stays in operation for 12 years?

We will never actually know the death rate at Alligator Alcatraz.

 

[Bomb#20]

ARE

Good argument.

 

[Bomb#20]

Oh for the love of god. A quarter of the people sent to Dachau died there. How many inmates have died at Alligator Alcatraz?

I agree the comparison is flawed

Glad to hear it.

, but your metric is also a bit misleading. You are looking at the end result of a 12-year process and applying it to the beginning. <rest snipped>

Fair enough. So, do you expect AA will have a similar death rate if it stays in operation for 12 years?

We will never actually know the death rate at Alligator Alcatraz.

Quite possibly. I asked about expectations, not knowledge.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Oh for the love of god. A quarter of the people sent to Dachau died there. How many inmates have died at Alligator Alcatraz?

I agree the comparison is flawed

Glad to hear it.

, but your metric is also a bit misleading. You are looking at the end result of a 12-year process and applying it to the beginning. <rest snipped>

Fair enough. So, do you expect AA will have a similar death rate if it stays in operation for 12 years?

What are the rules of this prediction? Are we assuming that the fascism continues to creep at about the same rate as it has been over that 12 year period?

 

[laughing dog]

Let's not get tedious and pedantic with this one.

Indeed. It's always tedious and pedantic when someone correctly points out that you are wrong, isn't it.

This really the hill you want to die on?

ICE has murdered two US civilians with the blessing of the Trump Admin in DHS and DoJ. And this is the pedantic ... you are whining about?

You got a problem with pedantic whining, take it up with bilby.

Why are you shifting the buck?

Why would the buck stop with me? Who am I, Harry Truman? Why did you snip the part of my post that answered your question?

I didn’t say the buck stopped with you. I snipped the pointless stuff.

Colonel Sanders was obviously right.

No, he wasn’t as I pointed out in the part you quoted.

 

[Bomb#20]

so they're being detained pending hearings

No hearings were scheduled. No lawyers were allowed. No due process. No oversight. Not a 'jail'. A 'camp', out in the middle of nowhere. Like Alcatraz, not a 'holding' place, a final PRISON.

That doesn't make any sense. These are people Trump wants to deport, not people he wants to hold endlessly and keep blowing money on. If he didn't intend to hold hearings why wouldn't he have deported them already? What makes sense is he hasn't got around to staffing a hearing system yet and he's not letting that get in the way of mass arrests because he's a ready-fire-aim kind of guy. The no-lawyers/due process/oversight is because he's an asshole, but that isn't a reason to think most of the prisoners have a legal right to stay.

If none have had their hearings then how could you possibly know there's no evidence to support any of that?

You don't ... know either. No records. There wasn't gonna BE hearings. That's the point. No oversight. No due process.

And? You didn't say "Prove it."; you said "NOT TRUE ". So now you're shifting burden-of-proof.

Have you read the Wikipedia page on AA? It has a long list of criticisms and legal challenges. "inadequate sanitation facilities", "unbearable living conditions", "insect infestations", "essentially packed into cages", "indiscriminately beating detainees", "Native American tribal rights", "sacred lands", "no environmental impact research", "the Florida panther", "the Florida bonneted bat", "First Amendment and Fifth Amendment rights", "lack of medical care", "minimal access to lawyers", and so forth. Like I said before, the place is egregious. But you know what criticism was conspicuously absent from that long list of allegations? There was no claim that the inmates were US citizens, or green card holders, or visitors with valid unexpired visas or other temporary permission. I'm pretty sure if the inmates hadn't come without permission or overstayed, somebody would have mentioned that detail. Wikipedia is not noted for its pro-Trump bias.

How many inmates have died at Alligator Alcatraz?

Fourtinately they weren't there long enough.

Of course the implication when using "concentration camp" evokes the Nazis.

As it should.
I don't know about your jurisdiction.
Where I live Due Process Of The Law is that a suspect can not be held more than 24 hours without being seen by a judge.
A judge will; set a trial date, extend the stay in 'holding', set bail, or dismiss the case. and Etc.
Due Process is set up to PREVENT an Alligator Oubliette or a Death Camp.
The lack of Due Process is a red flag that SHOULD evoke concentration camps and Nazis.
Alligator Oubliette was a Concentration Camp.

Like Col. Sanders said, "hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did."

 

[Elixir]

Nobody died.
Anyone claiming a precise number of inmates who have died at Alligator Alcatraz is relying on unverified information. Since you can’t verify a single death, the important thing is that those hypothetical dead people no longer pose a threat - assuming anyone died.
Such statistics don’t exist, so get over it. AA inmates are a net detriment to society so there is no reason to catalog their removals by whatever means. All that matters is that such removals provide a net benefit to America, aka the Shithole of Trumpistan.
A death count specific to Alligator Alcatraz is not established, nor should it be so it can remain at zero*
MAGA!!!

* coincidentally the same number of people murdered in Minneapolis by ICE!
What are the chances??

 

[Bomb#20]

, but your metric is also a bit misleading. You are looking at the end result of a 12-year process and applying it to the beginning. <rest snipped>

Fair enough. So, do you expect AA will have a similar death rate if it stays in operation for 12 years?

What are the rules of this prediction? Are we assuming that the fascism continues to creep at about the same rate as it has been over that 12 year period?

Only one rule: that it be introspective rather than rhetorical.