Charlie Kirk shot in Utah

[Toni]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

I just bolded the part that I think is quite important here.

Politesse understands my meaning, as well.

Nah, Poli just enjoys taking part in your harassment campaign.

Poor poor Emily! Expressing an opinion which conflicts with hers is harassment. What a terrible burden that must be!

 

[Toni]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

 

[robnisch]

My Mom was like 6 years older than my dad. Weird.
It was during WWII. He was in the Coast Guard and mature for his age.
She was pretty and worked in San Fran his home port.
6 kids 25 years of marriage, only ended by cancer.

 

[Emily Lake]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

 

[Emily Lake]

My Mom was like 6 years older than my dad. Weird.
It was during WWII. He was in the Coast Guard and mature for his age.
She was pretty and worked in San Fran his home port.
6 kids 25 years of marriage, only ended by cancer.

Obviously your mom was a rapist and your dad was a victim of abuse.

 

[robnisch]

My Mom was like 6 years older than my dad. Weird.
It was during WWII. He was in the Coast Guard and mature for his age.
She was pretty and worked in San Fran his home port.
6 kids 25 years of marriage, only ended by cancer.

Obviously your mom was a rapist and your dad was a victim of abuse.

NO, but we used to joke about her robbing the cradle.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My Mom was like 6 years older than my dad. Weird.
It was during WWII. He was in the Coast Guard and mature for his age.
She was pretty and worked in San Fran his home port.
6 kids 25 years of marriage, only ended by cancer.

Obviously your mom was a rapist and your dad was a victim of abuse.

NO, but we used to joke about her robbing the cradle.

Naw, your Dad was robbing the grave. /stealing from Futurama

 

[Toni]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

I don't know the laws in your state or where you lived when you were 16 dating a 19 year old. It is possible that technically, you were a victim of statutory rape but I don't know. I agree that if you consented, it was not forcible rape. Yes, there is a difference between statutory rape and forcible rape. Statutory rape can be very insidious. Or it can be no big deal, truly depending on the individuals involved I write this as someone who raised a son who was slow to mature emotionally and flat out told him that girls in high school were 100% off limits after he turned 19. He raised the very valid point that they were closer to him, maturity wise, than girls/women his own age and I agreed. But it was still better to avoid any chance of any legal mishaps.


AFAIK, there are no laws against a 16 year old and a 17 year old dating. Again, most R&J laws recognize a narrow age spread which is not criminal. I agree. But my observation is that those who have gone off to college and return to their high school sweethearts generally do so with an increased pressure for sex.

 

[Derec]

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

And there are plenty of fucked up dating situations where this scenario does not apply. I do not think it matters much if one person is barely out of high school while the other one is barely in. Especially since people can graduate high school before turning 18, while others can be still in high school at 18. It depends on birth month, as well as any repeated or skipped grades.
What about college? What if she is senior in college and he already graduated? Or vice versa? Is that "unwise" too?

 

[Toni]

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

And there are plenty of fucked up dating situations where this scenario does not apply. I do not think it matters much if one person is barely out of high school while the other one is barely in. Especially since people can graduate high school before turning 18, while others can be still in high school at 18. It depends on birth month, as well as any repeated or skipped grades.
What about college? What if she is senior in college and he already graduated? Or vice versa? Is that "unwise" too?

Again, I think that there is wisdom in Romeo and Juliet laws because it removes some of the pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person. On average, a boy's sex drive is more insistent than a girls of the same age or younger. Girls in high school often feel pressured to have sex that they are at best ambivalent about and have not prepared for by ensuring that birth control is well in place ahead of sex.

No, I don't think the same 'rules' re: age differential should apply re: those in their 20's, whether or not they went to college. There is a bigger difference between a 22 year old and an 18 year old than there is between a 22 year old and a 26 year old. Most 22 year olds have some experience operating as an independent adult. Most 18 year olds still live at home with their parents and have not had the life experience that put them on par with a 22 year old. That said, I don't see how it is practical to put legal constraints upon mutually consensual sex between an 18 year old and someone who is older than they are, whether I think it is wise or not.

 

[Politesse]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

I think your attitude towards the victims of sex crimes is very unhealthy. It's not a crime to be a victim of a sexual predator. Under the law, it is not even a crime to be a sexual predator, in many situations. Perhaps that included yours. But we all have a right to comment on the morality and social acceptability of sexual predation of the young, and I do have strong opinions about that. I make no apologies for siding with the victim in cases of rape. I don't think you should feel ashamed of having been taken advantage of when you were young. I do think you should feel ashamed to be defending the rights rapists over their victims now, however.

I can understand why you might not want to talk about these experiences, let alone have other comment on them. But when you bring your experiences into a forum discussion as evidence for a certain ideology, the other participants in the conversation are not obliged to agree with your interpretation of events just because they are on a sensitive topic. You shouldn't have brought up an incident you did not want discussed critically.

 

[Emily Lake]

My Mom was like 6 years older than my dad. Weird.
It was during WWII. He was in the Coast Guard and mature for his age.
She was pretty and worked in San Fran his home port.
6 kids 25 years of marriage, only ended by cancer.

Obviously your mom was a rapist and your dad was a victim of abuse.

NO, but we used to joke about her robbing the cradle.

My grandma was 5 years older than my grandpa... we had the same joke.

 

[Emily Lake]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

I don't know the laws in your state or where you lived when you were 16 dating a 19 year old. It is possible that technically, you were a victim of statutory rape but I don't know. I agree that if you consented, it was not forcible rape. Yes, there is a difference between statutory rape and forcible rape. Statutory rape can be very insidious. Or it can be no big deal, truly depending on the individuals involved I write this as someone who raised a son who was slow to mature emotionally and flat out told him that girls in high school were 100% off limits after he turned 19. He raised the very valid point that they were closer to him, maturity wise, than girls/women his own age and I agreed. But it was still better to avoid any chance of any legal mishaps.


AFAIK, there are no laws against a 16 year old and a 17 year old dating. Again, most R&J laws recognize a narrow age spread which is not criminal. I agree. But my observation is that those who have gone off to college and return to their high school sweethearts generally do so with an increased pressure for sex.

Interesting implicit assumption that the person who has left high school as gone away to college.

 

[Emily Lake]

Again, I think that there is wisdom in Romeo and Juliet laws because it removes some of the pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person.

How so? I don't get how making it legally allowable for a minor and a legal adult to have sex when they're close in age removes pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person. Are you assuming that without R&J laws, 16 year olds would be actively on the prowl for 40 year olds?

On average, a boy's sex drive is more insistent than a girls of the same age or younger. Girls in high school often feel pressured to have sex that they are at best ambivalent about and have not prepared for by ensuring that birth control is well in place ahead of sex.

I mean, I suppose some of this is true. But again, the notion that girls in high school are ambivalent about sex as well as being entirely unprepared to take basic precautions against pregnancy and STIs seems a bit weird to me. I don't think I'm an outlier in this, and in the late 80s/early 90s when I was in HS there wasn't as much pressure as you seem to imply, nor were girls unprepared, and we pretty much all knew how to use condoms and weren't shy about insisting on them.

 

[Toni]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

I don't know the laws in your state or where you lived when you were 16 dating a 19 year old. It is possible that technically, you were a victim of statutory rape but I don't know. I agree that if you consented, it was not forcible rape. Yes, there is a difference between statutory rape and forcible rape. Statutory rape can be very insidious. Or it can be no big deal, truly depending on the individuals involved I write this as someone who raised a son who was slow to mature emotionally and flat out told him that girls in high school were 100% off limits after he turned 19. He raised the very valid point that they were closer to him, maturity wise, than girls/women his own age and I agreed. But it was still better to avoid any chance of any legal mishaps.


AFAIK, there are no laws against a 16 year old and a 17 year old dating. Again, most R&J laws recognize a narrow age spread which is not criminal. I agree. But my observation is that those who have gone off to college and return to their high school sweethearts generally do so with an increased pressure for sex.

Interesting implicit assumption that the person who has left high school as gone away to college.

That was a follow up to a previous post referencing college.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think your attitude towards the victims of sex crimes is very unhealthy.

What attitude are you talking about?

It's not a crime to be a victim of a sexual predator. Under the law, it is not even a crime to be a sexual predator, in many situations. Perhaps that included yours.

What the hell are you even talking about? FFS, I was the victim of TWO attempted rapes. But neither of those was perpetrated by my barely 19 yo bf when I was 16 closing in on 17. It's irrational and insulting that you and Jarhyn seem to be insisting that I was a victim of something I was all in on. No crimes were committed, consent was enthusiastic, there was no predation.

But we all have a right to comment on the morality and social acceptability of sexual predation of the young, and I do have strong opinions about that. I make no apologies for siding with the victim in cases of rape. I don't think you should feel ashamed of having been taken advantage of when you were young. I do think you should feel ashamed to be defending the rights rapists over their victims now, however.

Seriously, what the actual fuck is wrong with you? I am in no way defending the rights of rapists, and it's beyond insulting and offensive for you to say such maliciously false things about me.

I can understand why you might not want to talk about these experiences, let alone have other comment on them. But when you bring your experiences into a forum discussion as evidence for a certain ideology, the other participants in the conversation are not obliged to agree with your interpretation of events just because they are on a sensitive topic. You shouldn't have brought up an incident you did not want discussed critically.

Oh the horrible, shameful experience of being a month away from 17 and having an enthusiastically consenting good time with my bf who was a month over 19! Oh the horror, how ever shall I live down the terrible abuse that I experienced!

It's not a sensitive topic, it was a stupid comment made by Jarhyn that 16 year olds are not ready to date 18 or 19 year olds. It's a dumb comment because it's incredibly common, legal in most areas, and very rarely represents any sort of predation or poor behavior.

Counsel caution? Sure by all means.
Insist that I'm a victim because of it? Nah, you're talking out your ass on that.
Frame it as me defending the rights of rapists over victims because of it? You have lost your entire goddamned mind.

 

[Emily Lake]

16 year olds will not be ready to date 18, 19, 20 years olds, and certainly not 30 or 40 or 50 year olds (yuck!), and 18, 19, 20 years olds will not be ready to date someone in their 30's, and so on.

Huh. Apparently me dating a 19 year old when I was 16 makes me some kind of freak.

It does not make you any kind of freak. I’m glad if it turned out well for you.

I even get it: I remember very well what boys in high school were like —made fresher by raising sons of my own and seeing it through different lenses.

Sometimes it works out well, whether the relationship lasts or does not. Just like any other relationship. But the age difference can create a power difference that does not work out well for the younger person.

It can, sure. But similarly an age difference between a 16 year old and a 17 year old can create a power difference in some circumstances. A 3 year age difference in teens is neither uncommon nor particularly dangerous. A lot of states have romeo & juliet laws in recognition of this. You don't have to agree with those laws - if you want to take the position that an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is a rapist, you can take that view. But it certainly doesn't support the assertion that a 16 year old dating someone 2 to 3 years older is being abused, nor that they're not "ready" to do so.

I recognize and agree with Romeo and Juliet laws.

Hold on a moment.

You agree with R&J laws... but you also agree with Jarhyn that I'm a rape victim for having dated (and yes, had sex with) a 19 year old when I was 16? Please explain how those views make sense.

But I’ve lived my life, made plenty of mistakes and ill advised choices and mostly things have worked out well for me, despite some particularly spectacularly poor decisions. I’ve raised children, had plenty of friends and I’ve seen some unlikely situations work out well —and some that ended in some unnecessary and protracted pain. Once or twice worse.

In general, I think it unwise for those who have completed high school to date someone who is still in high school. I have friends who are still married 50+ years after such. And friends whose life was pretty much upended because of this sort of situation.

Well that's going to create a lot of issues when the 16.75 year old junior and the 17.75 year old senior finish the school year. Seems pretty arbitrary.

I don't know the laws in your state or where you lived when you were 16 dating a 19 year old. It is possible that technically, you were a victim of statutory rape but I don't know. I agree that if you consented, it was not forcible rape. Yes, there is a difference between statutory rape and forcible rape. Statutory rape can be very insidious. Or it can be no big deal, truly depending on the individuals involved I write this as someone who raised a son who was slow to mature emotionally and flat out told him that girls in high school were 100% off limits after he turned 19. He raised the very valid point that they were closer to him, maturity wise, than girls/women his own age and I agreed. But it was still better to avoid any chance of any legal mishaps.


AFAIK, there are no laws against a 16 year old and a 17 year old dating. Again, most R&J laws recognize a narrow age spread which is not criminal. I agree. But my observation is that those who have gone off to college and return to their high school sweethearts generally do so with an increased pressure for sex.

Interesting implicit assumption that the person who has left high school as gone away to college.

That was a follow up to a previous post referencing college.

Um... I'm not seeing it. You introduced "gone off to college" in the post I responded to, and so far as I can tell, all of the previous posts are embedded. So perhaps you're responding to me with something you said to someone else entirely?

 

[Toni]

Again, I think that there is wisdom in Romeo and Juliet laws because it removes some of the pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person.

How so? I don't get how making it legally allowable for a minor and a legal adult to have sex when they're close in age removes pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person. Are you assuming that without R&J laws, 16 year olds would be actively on the prowl for 40 year olds?

On average, a boy's sex drive is more insistent than a girls of the same age or younger. Girls in high school often feel pressured to have sex that they are at best ambivalent about and have not prepared for by ensuring that birth control is well in place ahead of sex.

I mean, I suppose some of this is true. But again, the notion that girls in high school are ambivalent about sex as well as being entirely unprepared to take basic precautions against pregnancy and STIs seems a bit weird to me. I don't think I'm an outlier in this, and in the late 80s/early 90s when I was in HS there wasn't as much pressure as you seem to imply, nor were girls unprepared, and we pretty much all knew how to use condoms and weren't shy about insisting on them.

Lucky you. I remember my daughter coming home from school(8th grade) upset about girls in 7th grade who became pregnant by 15 year olds and older. There were detailed conversations between us about sex, reproduction, birth control, STIs, consent. Some of this was apparent toy shared with her friend/acquaintance group because she later complained about being asked so many questions about those topics. Her high school biology teacher told the class that girls could only get pregnant 2 or 3 days a month. His son was later charged with rape.

 

[Emily Lake]

Again, I think that there is wisdom in Romeo and Juliet laws because it removes some of the pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person.

How so? I don't get how making it legally allowable for a minor and a legal adult to have sex when they're close in age removes pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person. Are you assuming that without R&J laws, 16 year olds would be actively on the prowl for 40 year olds?

On average, a boy's sex drive is more insistent than a girls of the same age or younger. Girls in high school often feel pressured to have sex that they are at best ambivalent about and have not prepared for by ensuring that birth control is well in place ahead of sex.

I mean, I suppose some of this is true. But again, the notion that girls in high school are ambivalent about sex as well as being entirely unprepared to take basic precautions against pregnancy and STIs seems a bit weird to me. I don't think I'm an outlier in this, and in the late 80s/early 90s when I was in HS there wasn't as much pressure as you seem to imply, nor were girls unprepared, and we pretty much all knew how to use condoms and weren't shy about insisting on them.

Lucky you. I remember my daughter coming home from school(8th grade) upset about girls in 7th grade who became pregnant by 15 year olds and older. There were detailed conversations between us about sex, reproduction, birth control, STIs, consent. Some of this was apparent toy shared with her friend/acquaintance group because she later complained about being asked so many questions about those topics. Her high school biology teacher told the class that girls could only get pregnant 2 or 3 days a month. His son was later charged with rape.

What do you think 7th graders have to do with this discussion? 7th graders are 12 to 13 years old, which is monumentally different from 16 years old, both in terms of the physical and cognitive development.

R&J laws don’t extend that young, I believe they all have a lower end consideration of 15, and no more than a 3 year age difference.

Personally I think 15-18 is a substantial gap at the extreme outer edge of plausible, 16-19 much less so, 17-20 virtually nothing.

I don’t know if you’re just conversing with a bit of wander to the topic or what. I’m not seeing how 12/13 yo joins together with high school biology noting that the ovulation window is usually only a few days, nor how that dovetails into the teacher’s offspring being charged with rape at some unspecified “later” date.

Can you please take a step back and summarize what you’re trying to convey and add some clarity?

 

[Toni]

Again, I think that there is wisdom in Romeo and Juliet laws because it removes some of the pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person.

How so? I don't get how making it legally allowable for a minor and a legal adult to have sex when they're close in age removes pressure for a younger person to have sex with an older person. Are you assuming that without R&J laws, 16 year olds would be actively on the prowl for 40 year olds?

On average, a boy's sex drive is more insistent than a girls of the same age or younger. Girls in high school often feel pressured to have sex that they are at best ambivalent about and have not prepared for by ensuring that birth control is well in place ahead of sex.

I mean, I suppose some of this is true. But again, the notion that girls in high school are ambivalent about sex as well as being entirely unprepared to take basic precautions against pregnancy and STIs seems a bit weird to me. I don't think I'm an outlier in this, and in the late 80s/early 90s when I was in HS there wasn't as much pressure as you seem to imply, nor were girls unprepared, and we pretty much all knew how to use condoms and weren't shy about insisting on them.

Lucky you. I remember my daughter coming home from school(8th grade) upset about girls in 7th grade who became pregnant by 15 year olds and older. There were detailed conversations between us about sex, reproduction, birth control, STIs, consent. Some of this was apparent toy shared with her friend/acquaintance group because she later complained about being asked so many questions about those topics. Her high school biology teacher told the class that girls could only get pregnant 2 or 3 days a month. His son was later charged with rape.

What do you think 7th graders have to do with this discussion? 7th graders are 12 to 13 years old, which is monumentally different from 16 years old, both in terms of the physical and cognitive development.

R&J laws don’t extend that young, I believe they all have a lower end consideration of 15, and no more than a 3 year age difference.

Personally I think 15-18 is a substantial gap at the extreme outer edge of plausible, 16-19 much less so, 17-20 virtually nothing.

I don’t know if you’re just conversing with a bit of wander to the topic or what. I’m not seeing how 12/13 yo joins together with high school biology noting that the ovulation window is usually only a few days, nor how that dovetails into the teacher’s offspring being charged with rape at some unspecified “later” date.

Can you please take a step back and summarize what you’re trying to convey and add some clarity?

That there exists a very wide range in accurate information about sex, sexuality and birth control and issues such as consent. You offered your experiences. I offered my observations.

I personally figured out the mechanics of sex from reading Playboys I found hidden under the sofa of a house where I babysat ( child’s ball rolled under the sofa and I pulled them out after she went to bed).

If you had a good experience with your older boyfriend I am happy for you. A couple of girls I went to school with ended up dating guys who were about 28 to their 14. One got pregnant, married the guy and the last I heard they were still married. I suppose that worked out well. AFAIK, she never finished school. Which was a shame, she was quite bright.