Yet another war, this time with Iran

[Toni]

Men certainly seem to have a problem with women.

Typical Toni. I mention two politicians, a man and a woman, and you turn it into a "man have a problem with women".

If they speak out strongly, they are strident or schoolmatmish or ball busters.

Well, Warren certainly comes across as schoolmarmish. It is common to talk about politicians' personalities, even or especially in unflattering ways. Why is it ok to describe, for example, Al Gore as wooden, but not Elizabeth Warren as schoolmarmish?

If they speak in more modulated tones, they are wish washy, weak, just fluff.

No, that has nothing to do with "modulated tones". I think Kamala's 2024 campaign was "just fluff" because she eschewed talking about policy until late in the already foreshortened campaign, preferring instead to rely on vibes and memes.
Can Harris win on good vibes alone?: From the Politics Desk
That is a fair criticism, and should not be dismissed just because she happens to be female.

Heaven forbid they be too old or too fat or too thin or too sexy or too maternal or too butch or bitchy or ( insert insult here), while men have zero problem voting for fat, ignorant, privileged blowhards.

No, Chris Christie or Mike Huckabee's weight was never commented on negatively.
Physical, sartorial and personality characteristics, as well as background are always talked about for male politicians. You are living in a phantasy if you believe that only women face such scrutiny. Really, do you have some kind of selective perception?

If you disagree with a position, then you should be able to state where you think the position is incorrect or misguided. I know you never voted for Trump but you have managed to consolidate in a few words exactly what women are up against.

Most relevant to this thread (and we are on very thin ice) would be the opposition of politicians such as AOC, Bernie, Warren, Markey and Kamala to domestic oil and gas production as well as to oil and gas pipelines.
Bernie, Warren and Kamala called for banning fracking when they all ran for president in 2020.

Because I’m sure you never watched the movie, I will simply leave this speech from
The movie Barbie ( which I did not intend to see myself except a dear friend was visiting and wanted to see it plus I liked many of the names attached to the film):

I have not seen the movie, but my understanding is that "Barbieland" is some kind of matriarchy where men like Ken are 2nd class citizens.
And even then, judging from your quote, female characters are complaining about having it harder than men.

Don’t worry, Derec, I can hear your eyes rolling right now as you skip over to the part where you tell me how wrong I am.

Trust me, I am doing all I can to keep my eyeballs from rolling right out of their orbits!

The left has increasingly been reduced to nothing but virtue signalling. I suspect that

At least with Saddam gone is hope for positive change.

don't look now, but Saddam's been gone for over 20 years. Still hoping for that positive change. Here's to another 20 for Iran.

Iraq is doing fine now. ISIS rampaging through their lands is hardly anything anyone could have predicted. The Islamist trend was in hindsight predictable. But not at the time.

Iraq is where central Europe was in 1920. Or UK, France or USA was in the 19th century. Fragile and flawed democracies, slowly developing stronger institutions. Corruption is rampant.

We have a recipe to follow. So far so good. As long as a strongman doesn't take over it might work out great.

Iraq's biggest problem after Saddam (or ISIS) was Iran fueling sectarian divides. If Iran goes then better hope for Iraq

Anyone with half a functioning brain and even a tiny bit of knowledge of history since the 1970’s could have predicted. iSIS.

Extremism, be it religious or political or other rises because it is profitable. (some) People use the profit as evidence that their extremism is what God or the universe or whoever really wants and is righteous.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yeah, how did the people in USA choose a mad person as their president?

The left didn't put up an impressive candidate. Ukraine war caused massive inflation that pissed people off (war is bad for an economy). We left the border open, got focused on woke policies, and didn't emphasize the economy.

The Ukraine war did not cause massive inflation. The generations younger than boomers never saw significant inflation before so they think that it’s shocking. Some inflation as wages rise always happens. Always. They just didn’t think it would happen to them.

What my dog leaves in the back yard is a more impressive candidate than Trump. Sexism coupled with racism, but mostly sexism won Trump the election. And quite possibly outside interference.

I'd agree that sexism was a factor. But as long as we gaslight the reasons for the loss, the longer we will continue to lose elections. (Increases in wages weren't the only reason why inflation spiked).

 

[Shadowy Man]

Trump is preparing for a land war, could start anytime soon, probably with the end of his ultimatum. Iran is not likely to bend down.

At this rate he’ll soon be going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

 

[Patooka]

Trump is preparing for a land war, could start anytime soon, probably with the end of his ultimatum. Iran is not likely to bend down.

At this rate he’ll soon be going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

As much as I would like to see that happen, I suspect that would be inconceivable.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, how did the people in USA choose a mad person as their president?

The left didn't put up an impressive candidate. Ukraine war caused massive inflation that pissed people off (war is bad for an economy). We left the border open, got focused on woke policies, and didn't emphasize the economy.

The Ukraine war did not cause massive inflation. The generations younger than boomers never saw significant inflation before so they think that it’s shocking. Some inflation as wages rise always happens. Always. They just didn’t think it would happen to them.

What my dog leaves in the back yard is a more impressive candidate than Trump. Sexism coupled with racism, but mostly sexism won Trump the election. And quite possibly outside interference.

I'd agree that sexism was a factor. But as long as we gaslight the reasons for the loss, the longer we will continue to lose elections. (Increases in wages weren't the only reason why inflation spiked).

Gaslight? I’m not sure that means what you think it does. I was dismayed when Biden dropped out, especially so late. He beat Trump before and I still feel sure he. Like have beat him again. Sexism was enough to lose Hillary the race and Harris had to contend with her skin color as well. Trump
voters were voting against a woman and against another black person, not on Trump’s performance the first time around. Except that he voiced their sexism and racism and xenophobia. So nice to be able to spew your hate and see it as politically good.

Please do not bore me with your complaints re: Harris or Clinton. They certainly were neither perfect nor my first choice. So what? It all boiled down to not wanting to vote for a woman who was imperfect so let’s just vote for the biggest most crass disgusting morally corrupt incompetent sleazebag around. We survived COVID the first time, right?

Here’s the Wiki re: inflation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–2023_inflation_surge

I have a baby sleeping on my arm so. I won’t bullet the points.

Folks younger than me have never had to deal with very significant inflation before 2021-3. There was a perfect storm of events that lead to it, quite predictably. Covid created a lot of pent up demand and stimulus added cash to the economy. I do get the pain: I’m retired and I won’t have what I thought I would going forward. Poor me. I’m certain that Trump’s economic collapse andworldwide famine, multiple pandemics and climate disaster will be so much better for those that survive his nuclear war.

I am so sick of people rejecting good because it’s not perfect so thst we end up with a hellscape.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Iraq is doing fine now. ISIS rampaging through their lands is hardly anything anyone could have predicted.

Both George Bush Snr and Dick Cheney used exactly that reason as to why they didn't topple Saddam during the Gulf War. It was pretty fucking obvious a power vacuum would form went Saddam was topple and it was equally fucking obvious Islamic extremism would fill that void given the region's history.

What's in Iraq's history that would predispose it to Islamic extremism? They've had centuries of secular rule. The Ottomans did their damndest to extinguish Islamic extremism. So did the Brits. So did Saddam. And so did the Abassids way back when.

I think you need a better explanation

 

[Derec]

Russia participated in a regime change in the US.

Russia made Biden select Kamala as Veep and then made him not drop out until 108 before the election, ensuring that she would be foisted onto the top of the ticket and not somebody who actually won the primaries?

 

[Derec]

Gaslight? I’m not sure that means what you think it does.

He is referring to your attempts to reduce Kamala's (and Hillary's) failure to their sex and skin color (for Kamala).

I was dismayed when Biden dropped out, especially so late.

I was dismayed that it was necessary. By that first debate, it was clear that Biden was not capable of campaigning for president, much less being president for the next four years. But his inner circle should have been aware of his decline well before then, and he should have dropped out long before. That would have allowed for a primary season and a much better chance of winning in 2024.

He beat Trump before and I still feel sure he. Like have beat him again.

Not in his state. I still think it was a big mistake that Biden did not run in 2016. Apparently, Obama encouraged him to sit that one out in favor of Hillary, because it was "her turn". Biden was a much better politician than Hillary, and in 2016 he was much closer to his prime. I am convinced that if he was on top of that ticket, we would have been spared the phrase "President Trump" entirely.

Sexism was enough to lose Hillary the race and Harris had to contend with her skin color as well.

Again, you are making it too simplistic. Were some voters turned off by Hillary being a woman? Surely. But others were excited to vote for a woman. In the end, she was an unpopular candidate. Her campaign made strategic blunders. And after 8 years of Obama, it was an uphill battle to have a third term from the same party. And despite all that, it was a close election.
Compare with Gore. He was also not very popular. He was running after two Clinton terms. And he still made it very close, but lost.
Note that he was on receiving end of "not a dime's worth of difference" campaigning by Nader and was also unlucky that a number of Broward County Dems could not figure out the butterfly ballot.
So I see no reason to blame Hillary's loss on sexism. And same goes for Kamala. She had a number of disadvantages going in. She was not very popular, and without the George Floyd riots, I doubt she would have been Veep. Biden dropped out very late, leaving her with only 108 days to campaign. And she did not run a very good campaign. She was also unlucky that Gaza attacked Israel which led to a "Genocide Joe" campaign by the far-left and Muslims. None of this has anything to do with her sex or skin color.

Please do not bore me with your complaints re: Harris or Clinton. They certainly were neither perfect nor my first choice. So what? It all boiled down to not wanting to vote for a woman who was imperfect so let’s just vote for the biggest most crass disgusting morally corrupt incompetent sleazebag around. We survived COVID the first time, right?

Again, you are making it too simplistic by reducing it to race and sex.

Folks younger than me have never had to deal with very significant inflation before 2021-3. There was a perfect storm of events that lead to it, quite predictably. Covid created a lot of pent up demand and stimulus added cash to the economy. I do get the pain: I’m retired and I won’t have what I thought I would going forward. Poor me. I’m certain that Trump’s economic collapse andworldwide famine, multiple pandemics and climate disaster will be so much better for those that survive his nuclear war.

Nuclear war? Worldwide famine? Quite a grim prognosis.

 

[Toni]

Gaslight? I’m not sure that means what you think it does.

He is referring to your attempts to reduce Kamala's (and Hillary's) failure to their sex and skin color (for Kamala).

I was dismayed when Biden dropped out, especially so late.

I was dismayed that it was necessary. By that first debate, it was clear that Biden was not capable of campaigning for president, much less being president for the next four years. But his inner circle should have been aware of his decline well before then, and he should have dropped out long before. That would have allowed for a primary season and a much better chance of winning in 2024.

He beat Trump before and I still feel sure he. Like have beat him again.

Not in his state. I still think it was a big mistake that Biden did not run in 2016. Apparently, Obama encouraged him to sit that one out in favor of Hillary, because it was "her turn". Biden was a much better politician than Hillary, and in 2016 he was much closer to his prime. I am convinced that if he was on top of that ticket, we would have been spared the phrase "President Trump" entirely.

Sexism was enough to lose Hillary the race and Harris had to contend with her skin color as well.

Again, you are making it too simplistic. Were some voters turned off by Hillary being a woman? Surely. But others were excited to vote for a woman. In the end, she was an unpopular candidate. Her campaign made strategic blunders. And after 8 years of Obama, it was an uphill battle to have a third term from the same party. And despite all that, it was a close election.
Compare with Gore. He was also not very popular. He was running after two Clinton terms. And he still made it very close, but lost.
Note that he was on receiving end of "not a dime's worth of difference" campaigning by Nader and was also unlucky that a number of Broward County Dems could not figure out the butterfly ballot.
So I see no reason to blame Hillary's loss on sexism. And same goes for Kamala. She had a number of disadvantages going in. She was not very popular, and without the George Floyd riots, I doubt she would have been Veep. Biden dropped out very late, leaving her with only 108 days to campaign. And she did not run a very good campaign. She was also unlucky that Gaza attacked Israel which led to a "Genocide Joe" campaign by the far-left and Muslims. None of this has anything to do with her sex or skin color.

Please do not bore me with your complaints re: Harris or Clinton. They certainly were neither perfect nor my first choice. So what? It all boiled down to not wanting to vote for a woman who was imperfect so let’s just vote for the biggest most crass disgusting morally corrupt incompetent sleazebag around. We survived COVID the first time, right?

Again, you are making it too simplistic by reducing it to race and sex.

Folks younger than me have never had to deal with very significant inflation before 2021-3. There was a perfect storm of events that lead to it, quite predictably. Covid created a lot of pent up demand and stimulus added cash to the economy. I do get the pain: I’m retired and I won’t have what I thought I would going forward. Poor me. I’m certain that Trump’s economic collapse andworldwide famine, multiple pandemics and climate disaster will be so much better for those that survive his nuclear war.

Nuclear war? Worldwide famine? Quite a grim prognosis.

You make some good points re: Harris and Clinton, even if I do not fully agree. It is always difficult for someone of the same party as a two time POTUS of the same party to win . People want a change

I cannot think of a single female candidate that you have not maligned for reasons related to her sex or color.

I’d be much more inclined to to agree with you about their campaigns—neither Harris nor Clinton were my favorite candidates—but in a race that included someone who us as a complete incompetent as Donald Trump? Whose entire campaign was one huge racist misogynist xenophobic set of lies? It cannot be that people actually believed the man who gave the world COVID was the better candidate.

It is pretty obvious that with Trump, people who are inclined towards racism, misogyny and xenophobia have felt very much emboldened during his first presidency and since.

It has been a very rare occurrence that I have been able to vote for a candidate about whom I had no or few reservations. People need to grow the fuck up and realize that it is far better to vote for the better candidate than to say fuck it—the party isn’t nominating a perfect human being so I’m gonna just vote for a toxic waste dump instead. Btw, voting third party is a vote for the worst candidate 100% of the time. Written by someone who has voted 3rd party more than once—and who regrets it.

 

[thebeave]

Obama won twice (both landslides), despite being black. Hillary won the popular vote, and probably would have won the EC if she had played her cards right. It's a little weak to be continuing to trot out the racism and sexism card.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia participated in a regime change in the US.

Russia made Biden select Kamala as Veep and then made him not drop out until 108 before the election, ensuring that she would be foisted onto the top of the ticket and not somebody who actually won the primaries?

The 2016 election, silly.

 

[laughing dog]

Obama won twice (both landslides), despite being black. Hillary won the popular vote, and probably would have won the EC if she had played her cards right. It's a little weak to be continuing to trot out the racism and sexism card.

Why? Your man Trump played it twice and won both times. And the one time he couldn’t, he lost.

Are you that naive to think it didn’t play a role?

 

[barbos]

Russia participated in a regime change in the US.

Russia made Biden select Kamala as Veep and then made him not drop out until 108 before the election, ensuring that she would be foisted onto the top of the ticket and not somebody who actually won the primaries?

The 2016 election, silly.

Dude, you really need to see a brain doctor.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I cannot think of a single female candidate that you have not maligned for reasons related to her sex or color.

I’m sure that Derec would refer to any male candidate who slept his way to the top with the moniker “heels up”, don’t you think?

 

[SLD]

We don't have a ground force large enough to deploy in the first place.

Full occupation of Iran is unrealistic. More limited use of ground forces (for example on Kharg) is not.

Only way to "finish this" is a deal with IRGC for a secular government.

The raison d'être for IRGC is to guard the "Islamic Revolution". They won't allow a secular government, which means they need to be defeated.

Are you seriously suggesting that by taking Kharg this will defeat the IRGC?

Without a full occupation of Iran. They won’t be defeated. And we’re not going to even take Kharg with a simple Marine Battalion that is being sent there.

Not that Trump is smart enough to know that it’s not enough. He’s such a moron, I wouldn’t put it past him to invade with too few troops.

And what the fuck would be the point of taking it? It’s not going to give him control over the oil. The infrastructure will be destroyed. We would just take over a hulk of a city.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Obama won twice (both landslides), despite being black. Hillary won the popular vote, and probably would have won the EC if she had played her cards right. It's a little weak to be continuing to trot out the racism and sexism card.

The left today has become reduced to only caring about race and gender. As if that's the only thing that matters.

I'm on the left and I find it frustrating.

I think the lefts obsession with race and gender is costing it elections. The funny thing is that the left keeps accusing the right of being obsessed by race and gender. I don't see it. Not anymore. I think the world of western racist and misogynistic men is gone. Conservatives care about money. There's no money in racism and misogyny anymore. There used to me. There's not now

 

[jonatha]

I think the world of western racist and misogynistic men is gone.

What sort of Great Firewall do they have in Denmark?

 

[Derec]

IRGC has started using child soldiers.

11-year-old Alireza Jafari killed at checkpoint after IRGC recruitment call involving children

Is the UN going to say anything about it, I wonder ...

 

[TV and credit cards]

We don't have a ground force large enough to deploy in the first place.

Full occupation of Iran is unrealistic. More limited use of ground forces (for example on Kharg) is not.

Only way to "finish this" is a deal with IRGC for a secular government.

The raison d'être for IRGC is to guard the "Islamic Revolution". They won't allow a secular government, which means they need to be defeated.

Are you seriously suggesting that by taking Kharg this will defeat the IRGC?

Without a full occupation of Iran. They won’t be defeated. And we’re not going to even take Kharg with a simple Marine Battalion that is being sent there.

Not that Trump is smart enough to know that it’s not enough. He’s such a moron, I wouldn’t put it past him to invade with too few troops.

And what the fuck would be the point of taking it? It’s not going to give him control over the oil. The infrastructure will be destroyed. We would just take over a hulk of a city.

Kharg Island is how Iran makes payroll. We don't have to seize it. For these purposes, we just have to destroy it.

 

[Tigers!]

Gaslight? I’m not sure that means what you think it does.

He is referring to your attempts to reduce Kamala's (and Hillary's) failure to their sex and skin color (for Kamala).

I was dismayed when Biden dropped out, especially so late.

I was dismayed that it was necessary. By that first debate, it was clear that Biden was not capable of campaigning for president, much less being president for the next four years. But his inner circle should have been aware of his decline well before then, and he should have dropped out long before. That would have allowed for a primary season and a much better chance of winning in 2024.

He beat Trump before and I still feel sure he. Like have beat him again.

Not in his state. I still think it was a big mistake that Biden did not run in 2016. Apparently, Obama encouraged him to sit that one out in favor of Hillary, because it was "her turn". Biden was a much better politician than Hillary, and in 2016 he was much closer to his prime. I am convinced that if he was on top of that ticket, we would have been spared the phrase "President Trump" entirely.

Sexism was enough to lose Hillary the race and Harris had to contend with her skin color as well.

Again, you are making it too simplistic. Were some voters turned off by Hillary being a woman? Surely. But others were excited to vote for a woman. In the end, she was an unpopular candidate. Her campaign made strategic blunders. And after 8 years of Obama, it was an uphill battle to have a third term from the same party. And despite all that, it was a close election.
Compare with Gore. He was also not very popular. He was running after two Clinton terms. And he still made it very close, but lost.
Note that he was on receiving end of "not a dime's worth of difference" campaigning by Nader and was also unlucky that a number of Broward County Dems could not figure out the butterfly ballot.
So I see no reason to blame Hillary's loss on sexism. And same goes for Kamala. She had a number of disadvantages going in. She was not very popular, and without the George Floyd riots, I doubt she would have been Veep. Biden dropped out very late, leaving her with only 108 days to campaign. And she did not run a very good campaign. She was also unlucky that Gaza attacked Israel which led to a "Genocide Joe" campaign by the far-left and Muslims. None of this has anything to do with her sex or skin color.

Please do not bore me with your complaints re: Harris or Clinton. They certainly were neither perfect nor my first choice. So what? It all boiled down to not wanting to vote for a woman who was imperfect so let’s just vote for the biggest most crass disgusting morally corrupt incompetent sleazebag around. We survived COVID the first time, right?

Again, you are making it too simplistic by reducing it to race and sex.

Folks younger than me have never had to deal with very significant inflation before 2021-3. There was a perfect storm of events that lead to it, quite predictably. Covid created a lot of pent up demand and stimulus added cash to the economy. I do get the pain: I’m retired and I won’t have what I thought I would going forward. Poor me. I’m certain that Trump’s economic collapse andworldwide famine, multiple pandemics and climate disaster will be so much better for those that survive his nuclear war.

Nuclear war? Worldwide famine? Quite a grim prognosis.

You make some good points re: Harris and Clinton, even if I do not fully agree. It is always difficult for someone of the same party as a two time POTUS of the same party to win . People want a change

I cannot think of a single female candidate that you have not maligned for reasons related to her sex or color.

I’d be much more inclined to to agree with you about their campaigns—neither Harris nor Clinton were my favorite candidates—but in a race that included someone who us as a complete incompetent as Donald Trump? Whose entire campaign was one huge racist misogynist xenophobic set of lies? It cannot be that people actually believed the man who gave the world COVID was the better candidate.

I did not realise that Trump gave the world COVID. Got a link?