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How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
Latvian government monkeys implicitly admited that Ukrainian Drones which fell on (abandoned) fuel/oil storage were hacked by russians :)
 
Harry Bosch said:
Yea right. Probably should give you guys Alaska and Sarah Palin also right?
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Moscow Bob would probably spew some irrelevant bullshit like "historically it was ours so therefore yada yada".

Historically Africa owns everything. But I do love how Moscow Bob is trying to lecture former British colonies about the importance of history when it comes to borders.
 
From reporting and the analysts it looks like Russia may win he war of attrition.

Trump does not care and has alienated Europe. Europe has not yet learned to organize itself militarily without the US at the top.

Ukraine is going to have to cede telemetry. An then without Europe's militarily backing eventually Russia will find excuses to try and take more.

People are thing about FIFA, baseball, NBA, and the start of the NFL season. And rusing cost of living.
 
steve_bank said:
From reporting and the analysts it looks like Russia may win he war of attrition.

Trump does not care and has alienated Europe. Europe has not yet learned to organize itself militarily without the US at the top.

Ukraine is going to have to cede telemetry. An then without Europe's militarily backing eventually Russia will find excuses to try and take more.

People are thing about FIFA, baseball, NBA, and the start of the NFL season. And rusing cost of living.
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The problem is that Ukraine does not trust Russia to keep any agreements, for very good reasons. If Ukraine cedes the Donbas, they would have to abandon their most heavily fortified defensive lines. Then Russia would most likely attack again and take another slice of Ukraine.
 
Undoubtedly.

Putin first took Crimea, and there was little response. Then infiltrated border regions with Ukraine leading to a full scale invasion.

I think Europe could have prevented or stopped the invasion. They could have mobilized and threatened to attack if Russia crossed the border. I don't think Russia could have withstood the combined European air power.

It is all moot at this point.
 
steve_bank said:
Undoubtedly.

Putin first took Crimea, and there was little response. Then infiltrated border regions with Ukraine leading to a full scale invasion.

I think Europe could have prevented or stopped the invasion. They could have mobilized and threatened to attack if Russia crossed the border. I don't think Russia could have withstood the combined European air power.

It is all moot at this point.
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Some good news:


Ukraine has already signed defense agreements with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Emigrates. More countries are in the works. And now they are very close to signing one with the US. This will bring Ukranian expertise to the west; and hopefully help Ukraine with more drones. Unfortunately for Ukraine, I personally think that Russia will continue fighting and expanding in Europe until Putin dies. But the silver lining is that Ukraine is learning and teaching the west on how to fight Russia. This will benefit and save lives in the future.
 
From what I heard it is mostly about buying Ukraine anti-drone drones.

No one is going to go to Ukraine and fight Russians.

NK has people to spare to send to Ukraine to fight with Russia.
 
steve_bank said:
From what I heard it is mostly about buying Ukraine anti-drone drones.

No one is going to go to Ukraine and fight Russians.

NK has people to spare to send to Ukraine to fight with Russia.
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Agreed. It is acceptable for Russia to send in foreign replacements from NK and Africa. But not for Ukraine sadly. This is all about drones. But Russia has made Ukraine to be the best drone warefare experts in the world.
 
steve_bank said:
No one is going to go to Ukraine and fight Russians.
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There's lots of people that go on their own. We had a local that went. Came back in a box. Malcolm Nance joined the Foreign Legion and spent three months (IIRC) fighting with the Ukrainians. He said a big thing needed is ambulances to transport wounded.
 
Ukraine, Gaza, and Iran are dystopian nightmare realities.

The final step is battlefield nuclear weapons leading to full scale nuclear war.
 
Despite the opinions of our correspondent from the 1950s, nuclear weapons seem very unlikely to feature in the war in Ukraine - there are no big targets for big weapons, just a long stretch of killing ground with occasional small groups of soldiers and maybe the odd armored vehicle trying to run the gauntlet of the drones.

Imagine you were the Russian commander in the field, and had permission to use nukes against a y tactical target you thought would significantly improve the Russian position. What would your target be?

Six men and a tank is too small a target for a nuke. A town or city might make a viable target, but how would hitting it help your objectives? Instead of having to fight through the difficult terrain of a ruined city, you now have to fight through the even more difficult terrain of a ruined and radioactive city.

Nukes are useless weapons in this fight. Indeed, nukes seem to me to be pretty useless overall; They "worked" in Japan, but Japan was already defeated, needed an excuse to surrender, and was taken by surprise by a new weapon that only one nation posessed. It's hard to envisage a plausible circumstance where using nukes helps the side that deploys them - and given that their use will make you instantly the most villainized regime in history, you really need them to help a lot.

There's very little you can achieve with a nuke that can't be better achieved by conventional means.
 
Harry Bosch said:

The problem is that Ukraine does not trust Russia to keep any agreements, for very good reasons. If Ukraine cedes the Donbas, they would have to abandon their most heavily fortified defensive lines. Then Russia would most likely attack again and take another slice of Ukraine.
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And Russia doesn't trust West with any agreements becasue if we leave any significant part of Ukraine to the West you will arm that scum again and use them to attack Russia as they did in the first place.
Putin made a mistake in 2014 when he decided to not interfere with the nazy coup.
The west violated all the agreements with Russia.
 
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Meanwhile the NABU (funded and controlled by US/EU) arrested Ermak (the brain of Elensky).
People speculate that Trump administration decided to end or postpone this war before elections.
Putin might step into trap of having an agreement with the west again.
But the rest of his administration think that Ukraine and really the relations with the West should be finished.
 
bilby said:
Despite the opinions of our correspondent from the 1950s, nuclear weapons seem very unlikely to feature in the war in Ukraine - there are no big targets for big weapons, just a long stretch of killing ground with occasional small groups of soldiers and maybe the odd armored vehicle trying to run the gauntlet of the drones.
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First of all, nukes can be used as a demonstration of willingness to use them to force the other side to surrender.
Second of all, what some hardliners (Karaganov being the most vocal and unfiltered) suggest is nuking sites in EU, specifically Germany, Poland and Romania. Obviously non american sites. Rhine-metal factories is an obvious candidate for a hit.
First Oreshnik and then if message is not understood a nuclear strike.
Problem is, Putin has been too rational and predictable throughout this western aggression.
If he had a little of Kim Jon Uhn in him we would not have this thing last that long.
West would have backed off at the first sign of threat of retaliation from the Moscow.
Now, threats are not working anymore (if they had ever worked), The West needs to get bloody nose. And Putin is too peace loving for that.
 
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Putin has this weird aversion to assassination of leaders, specifically Elenslky.
US does not have that, you assassinate/kidnap leaders all the time.
Putin promised Israeli PM at the time to not assassinate Elensky.
That promise should be revoked and action should be taken.
This would be the first step in demonstrating that Russian threats are not as empty as West came to think.
 
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