Fraud in Minnesomalia

[bilby]

Welcome to the RMS Titanic deckchair committee meeting. Our first agenda item is the chairs on the Promenade Deck, which are for the use of Second Class passengers; The Chief steward has asked whether these should be arranged in two rows of eight, or in three rows, with an off-set spacing...

HEY! THE SHIP IS SINKING!

... Really? You are engaging in tired old "every thread should be about the giant hole in the ship" whataboutisms. This is not the forum for such discussions, so I would thank you to stick to the topic.

 

[Derec]

See Derec, right here is where you were talking about compatibility and assimilation!

Many Somalis and other migrants from Islamic cultures do not integrate well. That is still true despite your obsession with inserting Trump into every thread.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Let's review, Derec.

You initiated a discussion on the compatibility and assimilation of Somalis, specifically framing it around perceived differences in levels of corruption. The concepts of "compatibility" and "assimilation" are inherently comparative; they require measuring one culture against the host culture.

I challenged your premise by introducing concrete data regarding corruption in Minnesota from an external source--in this case, the context of Donald Trump--to provide a necessary point of comparison. A contrast between Culture A and Culture B was already on the table as a matter of your own assumption, yet you only categorized it as a "derail" once I provided actual, measurable evidence for Culture B.

If you did not want to debate the comparative nuances of corruption, you should not have made it the cornerstone of your argument on assimilation. Shouting me down with accusations of a "derail" is not a substitute for addressing the data or the logic of the comparison I am making.

Likewise, claiming I have TDS or an "obsession" is a fallacious ad hominem argument that utterly fails to address your missing argument.

 

[Derec]

Just because there are non-Somali individuals that engage in corruption does not disprove the point that rates of corruption among Somalis are very high.

 

[laughing dog]

Just because there are non-Somali individuals that engage in corruption does not disprove the point that rates of corruption among Somalis are very high.

I’m interested on how a rate of corruption is measured and what evidence do you base the observation that such a rate among Somalis is “very high”.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Just because there are non-Somali individuals that engage in corruption does not disprove the point that rates of corruption among Somalis are very high.

You are shifting the burden of proof. You made the initial claim regarding incompatibility and a lack of assimilation; therefore, the burden to substantiate that claim rests with you.

Your argument currently relies on an incomplete dataset. For example, if we are going to discuss "rates" of corruption, we must look at the full picture. Beyond the specific cases you've cited, there are ongoing, widespread allegations of corruption involving other political figures—such as the massive settlements impacting taxpayers across Minnesota—which, when adjusted proportionally by population, reveal significant financial impacts.

Furthermore, the vast majority of Somalis in Minnesota have no connection to fraud, yet you are using the actions of a few to characterize an entire group’s ability to assimilate. You are essentially demanding that I disprove a generalization that lacks the necessary statistical rigor to be proven in the first place. You have a lot of "missing math" to justify why this specific group is uniquely incompatible with the West while ignoring similar patterns of corruption elsewhere.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just because there are non-Somali individuals that engage in corruption does not disprove the point that rates of corruption among Somalis are very high.

Really??? There are almost 110 thousand Somalis in Minnesota. 85 have been swept up the the fraud scheme.

Did the white lady who was the ring leader not assimilate too?

 

[Bomb#20]

The Midwest mother who masterminded the roughly $250 million Somali-linked fraud in Minnesota was sentenced to more than 41 years in prison on Thursday morning. Aimee Bock, 45, was convicted last March of multiple counts involving conspiracy, wire fraud and bribery for her role in the Feeding Our Future scam, which prosecutors called the country's largest COVID-era fraud.

Daily Mail

That's a pretty heavy sentence.

“Do you understand what I'm saying?" shouted Moist. "You can't just go around killing people!"
"Why Not? You Do." The golem lowered his arm.
"What?" snapped Moist. "I do not! Who told you that?"
"I Worked It Out. You Have Killed Two Point Three Three Eight People," said the golem calmly.
"I have never laid a finger on anyone in my life, Mr Pump. I may be–– all the things you know I am, but I am not a killer! I have never so much as drawn a sword!"
"No, You Have Not. But You Have Stolen, Embezzled, Defrauded And Swindled Without Discrimination, Mr Lipvig. You Have Ruined Businesses And Destroyed Jobs. When Banks Fail, It Is Seldom Bankers Who Starve. Your Actions Have Taken Money From Those Who Had Little Enough To Begin With. In A Myriad Small Ways You Have Hastened The Deaths Of Many. You Do Not Know Them. You Did Not See Them Bleed. But You Snatched Bread From Their Mouths And Tore Clothes From Their Backs. For Sport, Mr Lipvig. For Sport. For The Joy Of The Game.”
― Terry Pratchett

 

[Derec]

And another one ...

Former Safari Restaurant owner Salim Said sentenced to 30 years for role in Feeding Our Future fraud case

 

[Toni]

I honestly cannot be assed to investigate myself but the programs that were developed and defrauded the government did so under what federal program? Authorized by which administration?

How does the fraud in Minnesota compare to similar fraud in other states?

 

[Emily Lake]

I honestly cannot be assed to investigate myself but the programs that were developed and defrauded the government did so under what federal program? Authorized by which administration?

How does the fraud in Minnesota compare to similar fraud in other states?

It really depends what kind of fraud. For example, there's been a LOT of medical fraud in the southwest, because there's an exploit that allowed it to happen very fast and very extreme in a relatively short amount of time. It's been largely associated with residential treatment centers for alcohol and drug rehab, and the victims of it have largely been homeless and native americans. The high population of very rural (more frontier than rural) native americans combined with a higher prevalence of alcoholism resulted in a concentration of them being more or less kidnapped, bussed in to re-purposed motels, and then essentially held hostage with no real treatment while the evil (and I don't say that lightly) providers bill the crap out of medicaid and ACA carriers.

For ACA there was also a weakness created when congress expanded the subsidies during covid, and a lot more people ended up being fully subsidized and had no premiums that they were responsible for. Brokers would bribe homeless and low-income people with money and with alcohol for them to sign a piece of paper, then enroll them into an ACA plan. In the least extreme cases, the brokers were just collecting commissions on people who had no idea they were enrolled at all. In the more extreme cases, those brokers colluded with providers to submit fraudulent claims on behalf of those people too. Just for my company alone, we had over $20 million in fraudulent claims in 2024.

State level mandates and laws have a lot to do with where and what kind of fraud can occur. There's no single factor that can be identified. California has problems with hospice fraud, Arizona has autism therapy fraud, Florida has a lot of home health care fraud, Minnesota has a lot of daycare fraud.

If a loophole exists, someone is going to exploit it. Even if most people are good people who would never take advantage of others... a relatively small number of bad actors can have an enormous impact and cause a lot of harm.

 

[Toni]

I honestly cannot be assed to investigate myself but the programs that were developed and defrauded the government did so under what federal program? Authorized by which administration?

How does the fraud in Minnesota compare to similar fraud in other states?

It really depends what kind of fraud. For example, there's been a LOT of medical fraud in the southwest, because there's an exploit that allowed it to happen very fast and very extreme in a relatively short amount of time. It's been largely associated with residential treatment centers for alcohol and drug rehab, and the victims of it have largely been homeless and native americans. The high population of very rural (more frontier than rural) native americans combined with a higher prevalence of alcoholism resulted in a concentration of them being more or less kidnapped, bussed in to re-purposed motels, and then essentially held hostage with no real treatment while the evil (and I don't say that lightly) providers bill the crap out of medicaid and ACA carriers.

For ACA there was also a weakness created when congress expanded the subsidies during covid, and a lot more people ended up being fully subsidized and had no premiums that they were responsible for. Brokers would bribe homeless and low-income people with money and with alcohol for them to sign a piece of paper, then enroll them into an ACA plan. In the least extreme cases, the brokers were just collecting commissions on people who had no idea they were enrolled at all. In the more extreme cases, those brokers colluded with providers to submit fraudulent claims on behalf of those people too. Just for my company alone, we had over $20 million in fraudulent claims in 2024.

State level mandates and laws have a lot to do with where and what kind of fraud can occur. There's no single factor that can be identified. California has problems with hospice fraud, Arizona has autism therapy fraud, Florida has a lot of home health care fraud, Minnesota has a lot of daycare fraud.

If a loophole exists, someone is going to exploit it. Even if most people are good people who would never take advantage of others... a relatively small number of bad actors can have an enormous impact and cause a lot of harm.

The fraud in Minnesota is connected to the fake charitable organization Feeding Our Future. Some of that fraud was connected to supposed food aid to daycares.

 

[Patooka]

I honestly cannot be assed to investigate myself but the programs that were developed and defrauded the government did so under what federal program? Authorized by which administration?

How does the fraud in Minnesota compare to similar fraud in other states?

Who gives a shit? There are Somalis in Minnesota! Do you know what they do to dogs and cats?

 

[Toni]

I honestly cannot be assed to investigate myself but the programs that were developed and defrauded the government did so under what federal program? Authorized by which administration?

How does the fraud in Minnesota compare to similar fraud in other states?

Who gives a shit? There are Somalis in Minnesota! Do you know what they do to dogs and cats?

Avoid them, I imagine. Many Muslims consider dogs to be unclean.

 

[scombrid]

GOP likes fraud. They pardon fraudsters that pay a little tribute to them. Their ascendent 2025 Heritage Foundation wing was largely funded by the AmWay Pyramid Scheme from the 1970s until about a decade ago and the perpetrators of that scheme still hold a lot of power in the GOP.

 

[scombrid]

My idiot neighbors got taken in by the Nerium MLM scam and tried to scam us with it. But hey, they’ll keep the trannies and dog eaters at bay so they’re the best.

 

[Toni]

See Derec, right here is where you were talking about compatibility and assimilation!

Many Somalis and other migrants from Islamic cultures do not integrate well. That is still true despite your obsession with inserting Trump into every thread.

Sigh. The ONLY reason you area aware of the fraud scandal in Minnesota is because of Trump who has a grudge against the state because of Tim Walz and because Minneapolis/St. Paul pushed back hard against ICE and in that small way, helped other states push back against ICE. It's a grudge thing on the part of Trump, who doesn't give a shit about fraud and in fact, ignores the massive amounts of fraud in other (red) states, such as Florida and the fraud committed by himself and his family members.

I am not completely certain what you call 'assimilating well.' If you mean that many immigrants who are from Muslim majority countries still continue to practice their religion and eat the same food and at least sometimes wear some traditional dress (mostly older folks or on special occasions) then you have just described every single immigrant group in the US ever.

Given how European settlers/descendants wiped out a majority of indigenous peoples here, impoverished them and tried to confine them to reservations, stole their children and punished them for speaking their own language and attempting to practice their own religion, I get how some people are afraid of that happening now in the US by other groups.

 

[laughing dog]

See Derec, right here is where you were talking about compatibility and assimilation!

Many Somalis and other migrants from Islamic cultures do not integrate well. That is still true despite your obsession with inserting Trump into every thread.

Sigh. The ONLY reason you area aware of the fraud scandal in Minnesota is because of Trump who has a grudge against the state because of Tim Walz and because Minneapolis/St. Paul pushed back hard against ICE and in that small way, helped other states push back against ICE. It's a grudge thing on the part of Trump, who doesn't give a shit about fraud and in fact, ignores the massive amounts of fraud in other (red) states, such as Florida and the fraud committed by himself and his family members.

Trump is pro-fraud as long as he or his family benefits.

Recalling that "many" is in the eye of the beholder, it is the idealogue's favorite rhetorical descriptor, even though it may very well be meaningless in any objective sense, simply reflecting the feelings of the ideologue.

 

[scombrid]

They never assimilate. Said about every immigrant ever. It’s bullshit. Not sure what level of custom adoption constitutes assimilation. I know the Boston and NYC cultures differed a lot from the inbred southern descendants of English colonists where I grew up.

I never met a Catholic until I got sent to Catholic High School. Were they not assimilated because they hadn’t adopted the WASP religion that founded the southern colonies?

I guess you could say that I unassimilated given my philosophy and lifestyle.

If people go to work and do their fucking job and obey laws that is good enough. I love having a full Mexican grocery and bakery in Fellsmere.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And another one ...

Former Safari Restaurant owner Salim Said sentenced to 30 years for role in Feeding Our Future fraud case

So, what I'm reading is, "The system is working in catching up to these fraudulent schemes." Or am I supposed to whip out my broad-brush and start waving it around about "those immigrants"?