Split Trans Issues, Split from Roe v Wade is on deck

[Emily Lake]

That is the same thing. People (including a mod) complained that it wasn't clear what that meant so I switched to a more common, if slightly misleading, term to describe the same situation. I have never identified as exclusively male, though.

Lol, and you gave me shit about knowing that you're male. It's not like you've tried to hide it.

What part of your physical body is female, Poli? Is it your uterus? Your fallopian tubes? Your ovaries? Your cervix? Your pelvic opening? Not a single part of you is female - every single part of you is male.

Male is not an identity. It's a sex class. And it's based on the reproductive role around which your body is organized. In humans, as in all other mammals and birds, there are only two: male and female.

 

[Emily Lake]

I am really and genuinely curious as to why you think you know what my biological sex is.

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

In other words, that's how I identify, so you assume it is true? Like any normal, decent person would do? Why then do you say "regardless of how you choose to identify"?

The word "choose" is quite possibly one of the most ugly passive aggressive terms regarding transgenders used by people like Emily Lake, TSwizzle, and the like. You see them use it repeatedly.

It's not something hardwired into Poli's body or brain. It's not innate, nor is it immutable. This has been observed over and over and over and over again - people's gender identities change. A very large number of men "discover" their gender identities in middle age, after having married, fathered children, and built a career as a man... and having never shown prior indication of being trans in any way. And a not-insignificant number of men who transition in their late teens and early twenties go on to detranstion when they've gained a bit more maturity.

It's extremely well established that for most youth who express dysphoria at the onset of puberty, it completely resolves all by itself if they're allowed to go through an uninterrupted natural puberty.

Identities in general are NOT immutable, and they absolutely change over time. Sometimes dramatically. To some extent, everyone's psychographic identity is a choice.

 

[Emily Lake]

It was selected by a biology and a process that created a "text" of a person, and now "there is only the text", and there isn't even a viable route for an individual to "choose" otherwise after the fact.

It wasn't selected by biology, no more than any other aspect of psychographic identity is. And given that the majority of men find their "true womanly selves" later in life, it's certainly not innate nor immutable.

Additionally, there's a rather suspicious cohort of men who "discovered" their gendery souls while in prison, after having been incarcerated as a man, for crimes committed as a man. For at least some people, it's absolutely a choice.

 

[Emily Lake]

True, but then, I'm not sure the average person is capable of talking about transgendered folks at all without a little bit of passive aggression. You cannot hate part of yourself without some small part of that hatred landing on someone else, however unintentionally or passively.

Lot of projection in there.

And men and women are not actually different enough that men can freely hate women or women men, without also hating some part of themselves.

Are you kidding me here? Holy fuck, it's like history doesn't exist for you! Or you've just substituted your own current beliefs onto all of it.

Even our genitals are a very slight remix on a common organic theme.

"Very slight remix" that has been in place for millions of years in anisogamous species. As in, those differences literally EVOLVED to perform a particular reproductive role. You're making the mistake of thinking that just because the tissue is undifferentiated for the first 6 weeks of gestation, there's no meaningful difference between a testis and an ovary. It's silly, and it's extremely poor logic if not disingenuous. If your logic were to hold, there's on a "very slight difference" between an eyeball and a big toe.

As for our social roles? There's no one who is wholly without the qualities "assigned" to the supposedly opposite sex. Men care about others sometimes. Women want to win sometimes. Men are capable of handicrafts. Women can do math. Why do you think it's so easy to whip men up about abortion, or custody issues? The maternal instinct isn't absent from them, it's been twisted and deformed by the language of power and money but it is very much there.

I'm all for tearing down the regressive stereotypes foisted on both men and women by society. What I don't approve of is the reinforcement of those regressive stereotypes via the ideology of gender identity.

 

[Emily Lake]

Emily’s position is that this individual is faking the trans; my position is that it doesn’t matter. Everybody should be free and safe to use bathroom facilities and locker rooms and nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Clarification - I don't care if he's faking. I care that he is male. That's all. If he genuinely and sincerely believes he's a girl is irrelevant to me. The fact is that he is male, and he has used his male body and his male strength to assault and rape girls... in the girl's bathroom. All because he claimed to be trans. He said magic words, so he was given the special privilege of entering a female intimate space.

It's largely been the trans privilege activists who insisted he wasn't "real trans". The reason being that he assaulted girls, and a "real trans" would never do that... so the fact that he did means he's not "real trans".

I don't actually care if he's sincere or not. Trans is at best an identity, it's a mindset, it's a desire for what one wishes they could be. It's not a reflection of an observable and independent reality. I care as much about a transgender identity as I do about a catholic identity.

Emily believes. Being trans is a mental disorder. I believe in the science that says there are physical differences in brain Abd genetic structures that create these differences .

I believe that at least some people who claim to be trans have a mental disorder. Some probably not. There is reasonable scientific support (as opposed to the ever-present psudoscientific hypotheses) that a small portion of same-sex attracted males have a neurological aspect to their dysphoria. This occurs at a young age, pre-puberty, and persists throughout time with no material change.

On the other hand, a fairly large portion of males who identify as trans at the onset of puberty are just gay and confused, very often autistic as well. For those, if you just let them complete puberty without intervention, they will become comfortable being gay and will also have a healthy, fully functional body.

The men who discover their gender identity late in life are almost all heterosexual - they're males who are attracted to females. And they're almost entirely men with a cross-dressing or autogynephilic paraphilia. And I absolutely consider that a mental disorder - it's STILL in the DSM V as a disorder.

There's also a very, very, very small number of men who delusionally believe that their body is the wrong body, in very much the same way that someone with a disorder might sincerely believe that the hand on their arm is not their hand, that it's foreign or alien.

Maybe you have us confused.

Maybe you have some issue with me and have decided this is the hill upon which we battle to the death.

Or, since we are cross posting here and I just read your post above, you have decided I’m someone to hate because I’m a woman.

We all have some amount of self loathing at some point in our lives. The best we can do is to try to love ourselves and be the best we can. And not externalizing it and dumping it in other people.

I do not give a shit which, which combination of those or something entirely different.

Those are all a you problem. I can’t fix it for you.

Alternatively, Poli is so dedicated to making sure that men get the special privilege of overriding female boundaries that any woman who disagrees with even the smallest aspect of his cause is a bigot.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am really and genuinely curious as to why you think you know what my biological sex is.

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

In other words, that's how I identify, so you assume it is true? Like any normal, decent person would do? Why then do you say "regardless of how you choose to identify"?

The word "choose" is quite possibly one of the most ugly passive aggressive terms regarding transgenders used by people like Emily Lake, TSwizzle, and the like. You see them use it repeatedly.

It's not something hardwired into Poli's body or brain. It's not innate, nor is it immutable. This has been observed over and over and over and over again - people's gender identities change.

The sense of taste changes over time. Obviously you wouldn't suggest people choose the tastes that they like.

A very large number of men "discover" their gender identities in middle age, after having married, fathered children, and built a career as a man... and having never shown prior indication of being trans in any way. And a not-insignificant number of men who transition in their late teens and early twenties go on to detranstion when they've gained a bit more maturity.

"A very large number", "a not-insignificant number". Wow! Those terms are definitely leading... without actually demonstrating.

Is this the Emily Lake version of Trump's "People are saying..."

It's extremely well established that for most youth who express dysphoria at the onset of puberty, it completely resolves all by itself if they're allowed to go through an uninterrupted natural puberty.

"Extremely well established". You are loving the adjectives here! You are let them carry all the authority of your statement. Hoping we don't notice that adjectives lack peer publishing.

Identities in general are NOT immutable, and they absolutely change over time. Sometimes dramatically. To some extent, everyone's psychographic identity is a choice.

The self being impermanent seems an odd hat to lay on your claim that people choose their identity. I never decided to be a man. I never chose to be straight. I never selected Asians as a prefered look. I didn't choose to be good at math or problem solving. And I certainly didn't choose to be a slow reader.

The insistence of choice on these people is presumptuous on your part. It is certainly possible some people could be confused. Some people might "go through a phase". But to suggest transgenderism is conspiracy of choice is a massively unestablished leap by you. And certainly an insult by others.

 

[Jarhyn]

"psychographic". Lol. Sounds like someone is trying to sound sciency with their pseudoscience.

Then, I think the whole "chosen-ness" of a thing is immaterial as to whether it should be allowed.

I firmly believe that if there were a pill that existed that could, when taken, physically require a person's neurons and change their "gender heuristic" somehow instantaneously to any of a variety of configurations... If it were a "trivially straightforward choice" from the moment you discovered a choice of pills to take...

There still would be no argument against "transition".

That said, it's no easier to "choose" your gender than it is for a processor to "choose" it's instruction set.

The human processor is going to do something specific, owing to its physical architecture, when it encounters the same abstract instruction, depending on its "gender".

This is what "gender" is as a nonhuman abstract concept.

If I had two X86 processors and took ONE and sent a microcode update to one of them to create a new instruction whose interpretation was to SUBLEQ and another to a different processor that made that same instruction operate an ADDGEQ instruction, I would have created two different GENDERS of the process family.

 

[Toni]

Emily’s position is that this individual is faking the trans; my position is that it doesn’t matter. Everybody should be free and safe to use bathroom facilities and locker rooms and nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Clarification - I don't care if he's faking. I care that he is male. That's all. If he genuinely and sincerely believes he's a girl is irrelevant to me. The fact is that he is male, and he has used his male body and his male strength to assault and rape girls... in the girl's bathroom. All because he claimed to be trans. He said magic words, so he was given the special privilege of entering a female intimate space.

It's largely been the trans privilege activists who insisted he wasn't "real trans". The reason being that he assaulted girls, and a "real trans" would never do that... so the fact that he did means he's not "real trans".

I don't actually care if he's sincere or not. Trans is at best an identity, it's a mindset, it's a desire for what one wishes they could be. It's not a reflection of an observable and independent reality. I care as much about a transgender identity as I do about a catholic identity.

Emily believes. Being trans is a mental disorder. I believe in the science that says there are physical differences in brain Abd genetic structures that create these differences .

I believe that at least some people who claim to be trans have a mental disorder. Some probably not. There is reasonable scientific support (as opposed to the ever-present psudoscientific hypotheses) that a small portion of same-sex attracted males have a neurological aspect to their dysphoria. This occurs at a young age, pre-puberty, and persists throughout time with no material change.

On the other hand, a fairly large portion of males who identify as trans at the onset of puberty are just gay and confused, very often autistic as well. For those, if you just let them complete puberty without intervention, they will become comfortable being gay and will also have a healthy, fully functional body.

The men who discover their gender identity late in life are almost all heterosexual - they're males who are attracted to females. And they're almost entirely men with a cross-dressing or autogynephilic paraphilia. And I absolutely consider that a mental disorder - it's STILL in the DSM V as a disorder.

There's also a very, very, very small number of men who delusionally believe that their body is the wrong body, in very much the same way that someone with a disorder might sincerely believe that the hand on their arm is not their hand, that it's foreign or alien.

Maybe you have us confused.

Maybe you have some issue with me and have decided this is the hill upon which we battle to the death.

Or, since we are cross posting here and I just read your post above, you have decided I’m someone to hate because I’m a woman.

We all have some amount of self loathing at some point in our lives. The best we can do is to try to love ourselves and be the best we can. And not externalizing it and dumping it in other people.

I do not give a shit which, which combination of those or something entirely different.

Those are all a you problem. I can’t fix it for you.

Alternatively, Poli is so dedicated to making sure that men get the special privilege of overriding female boundaries that any woman who disagrees with even the smallest aspect of his cause is a bigot.

I agree that what matters most is that this individual raped other students. At two different schools. Apparently under the guise of being trans which gave them more access to girls in restrooms. And probably greater latitude and ‘understanding.’

No one deserves to be raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by anyone.

Full stop.

There is no justification. It dies t matter if the victim is male, female, intersex, trans, old, young, virgin, sex worker, whatever. No one should ever be sexually assaulted. Under any circumstance.

Currently a traveling and have an iffy internet connection but you are incorrect re: science of gender expression and determination. Even straight forward genetics from decades ago shows that not all makes are XY and not all females are XX. And that having either of those chromosomal configurations does not always lead to exteriorly obvious penis/testes or vagina/labia.

It is much more important that :
1. People not sexually assault or otherwise harm others

2. People get to be who they are, unless it involves harming others. Growing up with an apparently female body but always feeling masculine or the other way around may seem strange but it doesn’t hurt anyone else.

 

[Emily Lake]

I am really and genuinely curious as to why you think you know what my biological sex is.

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

In other words, that's how I identify, so you assume it is true? Like any normal, decent person would do? Why then do you say "regardless of how you choose to identify"?

The word "choose" is quite possibly one of the most ugly passive aggressive terms regarding transgenders used by people like Emily Lake, TSwizzle, and the like. You see them use it repeatedly.

It's not something hardwired into Poli's body or brain. It's not innate, nor is it immutable. This has been observed over and over and over and over again - people's gender identities change.

The sense of taste changes over time. Obviously you wouldn't suggest people choose the tastes that they like.

"It's an acquired taste"

A very large number of men "discover" their gender identities in middle age, after having married, fathered children, and built a career as a man... and having never shown prior indication of being trans in any way. And a not-insignificant number of men who transition in their late teens and early twenties go on to detranstion when they've gained a bit more maturity.

"A very large number", "a not-insignificant number". Wow! Those terms are definitely leading... without actually demonstrating.

Is this the Emily Lake version of Trump's "People are saying..."

It's extremely well established that for most youth who express dysphoria at the onset of puberty, it completely resolves all by itself if they're allowed to go through an uninterrupted natural puberty.

"Extremely well established". You are loving the adjectives here! You are let them carry all the authority of your statement. Hoping we don't notice that adjectives lack peer publishing.

Identities in general are NOT immutable, and they absolutely change over time. Sometimes dramatically. To some extent, everyone's psychographic identity is a choice.

The self being impermanent seems an odd hat to lay on your claim that people choose their identity. I never decided to be a man.

No, you were simply born male and didn't form your identity around regressive stereotypes.

I never chose to be straight. I never selected Asians as a prefered look. I didn't choose to be good at math or problem solving. And I certainly didn't choose to be a slow reader.

The insistence of choice on these people is presumptuous on your part. It is certainly possible some people could be confused. Some people might "go through a phase". But to suggest transgenderism is conspiracy of choice is a massively unestablished leap by you. And certainly an insult by others.

Do you think that preferences are identities?

At the end of the day, males are males Jimmy. Males aren't females, nor can they become females. Gender identity is completely, 100%, unequivally an internal subjective thing. There is absolutely no possible way to determine whether a person's actual gender identity is what they say it is, or if they even have one. It's taken entirely on faith, and faith alone. There is no way to verify it.

When you support policies that allow males to violate female boundaries on the basis of their claim to a subjective feeling, you are supporting a policy that allows any male to violate female boundaries at any time, with impunity. You end up supporting the privilege of males to expose themselves to nonconsenting women on their whim - as long as they do so in a female-only intimate space. You end up supporting the privilege of males to engage in voyeurism and you deny women the right to deny them that privilege.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your advocacy has the net result of decriminalizing an entire set of sex offenses, and allows for the continued and furthered victimization of women.

 

[Emily Lake]

Emily’s position is that this individual is faking the trans; my position is that it doesn’t matter. Everybody should be free and safe to use bathroom facilities and locker rooms and nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Clarification - I don't care if he's faking. I care that he is male. That's all. If he genuinely and sincerely believes he's a girl is irrelevant to me. The fact is that he is male, and he has used his male body and his male strength to assault and rape girls... in the girl's bathroom. All because he claimed to be trans. He said magic words, so he was given the special privilege of entering a female intimate space.

It's largely been the trans privilege activists who insisted he wasn't "real trans". The reason being that he assaulted girls, and a "real trans" would never do that... so the fact that he did means he's not "real trans".

I don't actually care if he's sincere or not. Trans is at best an identity, it's a mindset, it's a desire for what one wishes they could be. It's not a reflection of an observable and independent reality. I care as much about a transgender identity as I do about a catholic identity.

Emily believes. Being trans is a mental disorder. I believe in the science that says there are physical differences in brain Abd genetic structures that create these differences .

I believe that at least some people who claim to be trans have a mental disorder. Some probably not. There is reasonable scientific support (as opposed to the ever-present psudoscientific hypotheses) that a small portion of same-sex attracted males have a neurological aspect to their dysphoria. This occurs at a young age, pre-puberty, and persists throughout time with no material change.

On the other hand, a fairly large portion of males who identify as trans at the onset of puberty are just gay and confused, very often autistic as well. For those, if you just let them complete puberty without intervention, they will become comfortable being gay and will also have a healthy, fully functional body.

The men who discover their gender identity late in life are almost all heterosexual - they're males who are attracted to females. And they're almost entirely men with a cross-dressing or autogynephilic paraphilia. And I absolutely consider that a mental disorder - it's STILL in the DSM V as a disorder.

There's also a very, very, very small number of men who delusionally believe that their body is the wrong body, in very much the same way that someone with a disorder might sincerely believe that the hand on their arm is not their hand, that it's foreign or alien.

Maybe you have us confused.

Maybe you have some issue with me and have decided this is the hill upon which we battle to the death.

Or, since we are cross posting here and I just read your post above, you have decided I’m someone to hate because I’m a woman.

We all have some amount of self loathing at some point in our lives. The best we can do is to try to love ourselves and be the best we can. And not externalizing it and dumping it in other people.

I do not give a shit which, which combination of those or something entirely different.

Those are all a you problem. I can’t fix it for you.

Alternatively, Poli is so dedicated to making sure that men get the special privilege of overriding female boundaries that any woman who disagrees with even the smallest aspect of his cause is a bigot.

I agree that what matters most is that this individual raped other students. At two different schools. Apparently under the guise of being trans which gave them more access to girls in restrooms. And probably greater latitude and ‘understanding.’

No one deserves to be raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by anyone.

Full stop.

There is no justification. It dies t matter if the victim is male, female, intersex, trans, old, young, virgin, sex worker, whatever. No one should ever be sexually assaulted. Under any circumstance.

Agreed. I just take it one step further than you. I actively object to removing safeguards that help to mitigate those assaults against women and girls. I don't want people who identify as trans to be harmed, and I sincerely hope they aren't. But the policies being pushed in the name of trans rights are ones that eradicate safeguards that we rely on to mitigate our already too high risks. Removing those barriers in order to affirm the subjective feelings of some males at the cost of all females is something I can't get behind.

This is also not the only case of trans status being abused. Richard Cox is a sex offender with a felony record who exposed his dick to women and girls in two different counties. One county decided that since he said he's trans, it was perfectly fine, because he was in female locker rooms. The other initially arrested him because his pre-existing sex offender status precludes him from loitering within 100 feet of schools. He exposed his dick in a high school locker room (how the hell he got in there in the first place is something I haven't managed to figure out). His case was thrown out because the judge decided that "loitering" is poorly defined. Cox has previously sexually assaulted women, and was found in possession of child porn. But he says he's a transwoman... so the risk he presents to women and girls is not taken into consideration.

Arlington judge throws out indictments against sex offender Richard Cox

There are several new developments to a sex offender case that 7News has extensively covered for more than a year.Registered sex offender Richard Cox is facing

wjla.com

Darren Merager had a history of repeated felony sex offenses, including indecent exposure and flashing. He decided to change the marker on his driver's license. Then he went to a Korean spa, stripped down, and marched his dick right on into the female side of the nude spa. When the women there complained, they were called bigots for noticing the dick in the dick-less side of the spa. They were hounded and harassed and received death threats for it. Merager was arrested... but despite his history of exposure and felony level offenses, he was found "not guilty" because he said he was trans. So a sex offender with multiple felonies related to flashing was deemed to not be flashing because he was only showing his dick to nonconsenting women in a women-only nude spa.

Transgender Acquitted in LA Korean Spa Exposure Case Despite Past Sex Crime Convictions

Transgender acquitted in LA Korean spa exposure case despite prior sex crime convictions. Korean spa in Washington loses related court battle.

en.koreadaily.com

This is the crux of the issue for me. The feelings of males with histories of sex offenses against women are being prioritized in law above the safety and rights of women. Neither of these men is "trans" in any meaningful or rational way - they're "women" solely because they say they are. There's no objective measure, it's completely based on their say so.

And the net result is that two sex offenders are now LEGALLY allowed to continue offending against women, as long as they commit their offenses in spaces reserved for women.

It's a predator's daydream.

 

[ZiprHead]

I am really and genuinely curious as to why you think you know what my biological sex is.

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

In other words, that's how I identify, so you assume it is true? Like any normal, decent person would do? Why then do you say "regardless of how you choose to identify"?

The word "choose" is quite possibly one of the most ugly passive aggressive terms regarding transgenders used by people like Emily Lake, TSwizzle, and the like. You see them use it repeatedly.

It's not something hardwired into Poli's body or brain. It's not innate, nor is it immutable. This has been observed over and over and over and over again - people's gender identities change.

The sense of taste changes over time. Obviously you wouldn't suggest people choose the tastes that they like.

A very large number of men "discover" their gender identities in middle age, after having married, fathered children, and built a career as a man... and having never shown prior indication of being trans in any way. And a not-insignificant number of men who transition in their late teens and early twenties go on to detranstion when they've gained a bit more maturity.

"A very large number", "a not-insignificant number". Wow! Those terms are definitely leading... without actually demonstrating.

Is this the Emily Lake version of Trump's "People are saying..."

It's extremely well established that for most youth who express dysphoria at the onset of puberty, it completely resolves all by itself if they're allowed to go through an uninterrupted natural puberty.

"Extremely well established". You are loving the adjectives here! You are let them carry all the authority of your statement. Hoping we don't notice that adjectives lack peer publishing.

Identities in general are NOT immutable, and they absolutely change over time. Sometimes dramatically. To some extent, everyone's psychographic identity is a choice.

The self being impermanent seems an odd hat to lay on your claim that people choose their identity. I never decided to be a man. I never chose to be straight. I never selected Asians as a prefered look. I didn't choose to be good at math or problem solving. And I certainly didn't choose to be a slow reader.

The insistence of choice on these people is presumptuous on your part. It is certainly possible some people could be confused. Some people might "go through a phase". But to suggest transgenderism is conspiracy of choice is a massively unestablished leap by you. And certainly an insult by others.

I've already posted the facts that very few people once they've committed to their trans nature go back. Apparently she is also unaware of the stigma attached to coming out as trans in middle aged people and what it could do to their families.

 

[Bomb#20]

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

But also, my little pronoun box has always said "nonbinary", I have never changed it, there's no pretending involved.

It hasn't always. It used to say "All pronouns fine." Can't say whether you're the one who changed it, but someone did.

You've just always misgendered me.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Meh, I don't care if Poli thinks I've "misgendered" him.

Suit yourself, but I care. Let us call things by their right names -- what you committed was blasphemy, not misgendering. When people trump up false accusations, especially when they're chronic because there's a whole ideological infrastructure of false premises being peddled in support of those false accusations, I have a problem with that. It puts us all at risk of being silenced by anti-blasphemy practices.

Pretty much everyone refers to Poli as "he", because Poli is a male of the human species.

And this is proof that Poli's gender is male. Gender is a social construct, and society evidently constructs the male gender as including people like Poli. I know you don't care about gender, but care or no, you gendered him rightly. "Mis" means "wrongly".

Among the facts not in evidence assumed in Poli's trumped-up accusation are (1) that gender is the same thing as gender identity, (2) that what someone's gender is is up to him or her to decide and that's binding on the rest of us, and (3) that gender ideology's adherents' fervent wish to control how society constructs gender is enough to make them experts on how society constructs gender.

At the end of the day, I am not an adherent of the religion of gender. I don't give a crap what Poli's claimed gender is. I only care about his sex. So I prefer to say that I've accurately sexed him.

You did that too.

 

[Toni]

Emily’s position is that this individual is faking the trans; my position is that it doesn’t matter. Everybody should be free and safe to use bathroom facilities and locker rooms and nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Clarification - I don't care if he's faking. I care that he is male. That's all. If he genuinely and sincerely believes he's a girl is irrelevant to me. The fact is that he is male, and he has used his male body and his male strength to assault and rape girls... in the girl's bathroom. All because he claimed to be trans. He said magic words, so he was given the special privilege of entering a female intimate space.

It's largely been the trans privilege activists who insisted he wasn't "real trans". The reason being that he assaulted girls, and a "real trans" would never do that... so the fact that he did means he's not "real trans".

I don't actually care if he's sincere or not. Trans is at best an identity, it's a mindset, it's a desire for what one wishes they could be. It's not a reflection of an observable and independent reality. I care as much about a transgender identity as I do about a catholic identity.

Emily believes. Being trans is a mental disorder. I believe in the science that says there are physical differences in brain Abd genetic structures that create these differences .

I believe that at least some people who claim to be trans have a mental disorder. Some probably not. There is reasonable scientific support (as opposed to the ever-present psudoscientific hypotheses) that a small portion of same-sex attracted males have a neurological aspect to their dysphoria. This occurs at a young age, pre-puberty, and persists throughout time with no material change.

On the other hand, a fairly large portion of males who identify as trans at the onset of puberty are just gay and confused, very often autistic as well. For those, if you just let them complete puberty without intervention, they will become comfortable being gay and will also have a healthy, fully functional body.

The men who discover their gender identity late in life are almost all heterosexual - they're males who are attracted to females. And they're almost entirely men with a cross-dressing or autogynephilic paraphilia. And I absolutely consider that a mental disorder - it's STILL in the DSM V as a disorder.

There's also a very, very, very small number of men who delusionally believe that their body is the wrong body, in very much the same way that someone with a disorder might sincerely believe that the hand on their arm is not their hand, that it's foreign or alien.

Maybe you have us confused.

Maybe you have some issue with me and have decided this is the hill upon which we battle to the death.

Or, since we are cross posting here and I just read your post above, you have decided I’m someone to hate because I’m a woman.

We all have some amount of self loathing at some point in our lives. The best we can do is to try to love ourselves and be the best we can. And not externalizing it and dumping it in other people.

I do not give a shit which, which combination of those or something entirely different.

Those are all a you problem. I can’t fix it for you.

Alternatively, Poli is so dedicated to making sure that men get the special privilege of overriding female boundaries that any woman who disagrees with even the smallest aspect of his cause is a bigot.

I agree that what matters most is that this individual raped other students. At two different schools. Apparently under the guise of being trans which gave them more access to girls in restrooms. And probably greater latitude and ‘understanding.’

No one deserves to be raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by anyone.

Full stop.

There is no justification. It dies t matter if the victim is male, female, intersex, trans, old, young, virgin, sex worker, whatever. No one should ever be sexually assaulted. Under any circumstance.

Agreed. I just take it one step further than you. I actively object to removing safeguards that help to mitigate those assaults against women and girls. I don't want people who identify as trans to be harmed, and I sincerely hope they aren't. But the policies being pushed in the name of trans rights are ones that eradicate safeguards that we rely on to mitigate our already too high risks. Removing those barriers in order to affirm the subjective feelings of some males at the cost of all females is something I can't get behind.

This is also not the only case of trans status being abused. Richard Cox is a sex offender with a felony record who exposed his dick to women and girls in two different counties. One county decided that since he said he's trans, it was perfectly fine, because he was in female locker rooms. The other initially arrested him because his pre-existing sex offender status precludes him from loitering within 100 feet of schools. He exposed his dick in a high school locker room (how the hell he got in there in the first place is something I haven't managed to figure out). His case was thrown out because the judge decided that "loitering" is poorly defined. Cox has previously sexually assaulted women, and was found in possession of child porn. But he says he's a transwoman... so the risk he presents to women and girls is not taken into consideration.

Arlington judge throws out indictments against sex offender Richard Cox

There are several new developments to a sex offender case that 7News has extensively covered for more than a year.Registered sex offender Richard Cox is facing

wjla.com

View attachment 54379

Darren Merager had a history of repeated felony sex offenses, including indecent exposure and flashing. He decided to change the marker on his driver's license. Then he went to a Korean spa, stripped down, and marched his dick right on into the female side of the nude spa. When the women there complained, they were called bigots for noticing the dick in the dick-less side of the spa. They were hounded and harassed and received death threats for it. Merager was arrested... but despite his history of exposure and felony level offenses, he was found "not guilty" because he said he was trans. So a sex offender with multiple felonies related to flashing was deemed to not be flashing because he was only showing his dick to nonconsenting women in a women-only nude spa.

Transgender Acquitted in LA Korean Spa Exposure Case Despite Past Sex Crime Convictions

Transgender acquitted in LA Korean spa exposure case despite prior sex crime convictions. Korean spa in Washington loses related court battle.

en.koreadaily.com

View attachment 54380


This is the crux of the issue for me. The feelings of males with histories of sex offenses against women are being prioritized in law above the safety and rights of women. Neither of these men is "trans" in any meaningful or rational way - they're "women" solely because they say they are. There's no objective measure, it's completely based on their say so.

And the net result is that two sex offenders are now LEGALLY allowed to continue offending against women, as long as they commit their offenses in spaces reserved for women.

It's a predator's daydream.

The actual issue is that jail or prison should not involve physical or sexual violence as part of the sentence.

This applies to everyone: male, female, intersex, trans, etc.

When the state incarcerates anyone, they have an absolute duty to prevent violence against inmates by anyone, and to provide decent food and water, medical care, clean and safe accommodations that provide adequate temperature control.

 

[Politesse]

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

But also, my little pronoun box has always said "nonbinary", I have never changed it, there's no pretending involved.

It hasn't always. It used to say "All pronouns fine." Can't say whether you're the one who changed it, but someone did.

You've just always misgendered me.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Meh, I don't care if Poli thinks I've "misgendered" him.

Suit yourself, but I care. Let us call things by their right names -- what you committed was blasphemy, not misgendering. When people trump up false accusations, especially when they're chronic because there's a whole ideological infrastructure of false premises being peddled in support of those false accusations, I have a problem with that. It puts us all at risk of being silenced by anti-blasphemy practices.

Pretty much everyone refers to Poli as "he", because Poli is a male of the human species.

And this is proof that Poli's gender is male. Gender is a social construct, and society evidently constructs the male gender as including people like Poli. I know you don't care about gender, but care or no, you gendered him rightly. "Mis" means "wrongly".

Among the facts not in evidence assumed in Poli's trumped-up accusation are (1) that gender is the same thing as gender identity, (2) that what someone's gender is is up to him or her to decide and that's binding on the rest of us, and (3) that gender ideology's adherents' fervent wish to control how society constructs gender is enough to make them experts on how society constructs gender.

At the end of the day, I am not an adherent of the religion of gender. I don't give a crap what Poli's claimed gender is. I only care about his sex. So I prefer to say that I've accurately sexed him.

You did that too.

If your philosophy is, essentially, fuck what other people think or how they feel if it conflicts with your faith, don't be surprised if people likwewise stop caring about your own pearl-clutching emotional appeals. You're one of the few people on this thread I haven't got on ignore, but there's always room for more.

 

[Jarhyn]

Because you've been posting here for nearly a decade, and for the majority of that you didn't bother to try to hide your sex as a male. There's nothing curious about it.

But also, my little pronoun box has always said "nonbinary", I have never changed it, there's no pretending involved.

It hasn't always. It used to say "All pronouns fine." Can't say whether you're the one who changed it, but someone did.

You've just always misgendered me.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Meh, I don't care if Poli thinks I've "misgendered" him.

Suit yourself, but I care. Let us call things by their right names -- what you committed was blasphemy, not misgendering. When people trump up false accusations, especially when they're chronic because there's a whole ideological infrastructure of false premises being peddled in support of those false accusations, I have a problem with that. It puts us all at risk of being silenced by anti-blasphemy practices.

Pretty much everyone refers to Poli as "he", because Poli is a male of the human species.

And this is proof that Poli's gender is male. Gender is a social construct, and society evidently constructs the male gender as including people like Poli. I know you don't care about gender, but care or no, you gendered him rightly. "Mis" means "wrongly".

Among the facts not in evidence assumed in Poli's trumped-up accusation are (1) that gender is the same thing as gender identity, (2) that what someone's gender is is up to him or her to decide and that's binding on the rest of us, and (3) that gender ideology's adherents' fervent wish to control how society constructs gender is enough to make them experts on how society constructs gender.

At the end of the day, I am not an adherent of the religion of gender. I don't give a crap what Poli's claimed gender is. I only care about his sex. So I prefer to say that I've accurately sexed him.

You did that too.

If your philosophy is, essentially, fuck what other people think or how they feel if it conflicts with your faith, don't be surprised if people likwewise stop caring about your own pearl-clutching emotional appeals. You're one of the few people on this thread I haven't got on ignore, but there's always room for more.

That's always been Bomb, though.

I mean shit, it took me how many years before I realized that the way he uses the term "newspeak" is itself "newspeak"? I'm a bit disappointed in how long that took me -- and in everyone else for not seeing it sooner and cluing me in (and chastising him for it) earlier.

I mean seriously, the guy throws a GD tantrum every time anyone tries to use "gender" as a concept distinct from sex, and then accuses all the other people of preventing conversations through the control of language on account that they use words that allow accessing meanings that Bomb doesn't think should be capable of being discussed.

And no, you aren't being silenced by "abti-blashemy practices", you are being silenced by "anti-anti-social-asshole practices", Bomb. I'll let you make the connections as to why, assuming you can.

 

[Bomb#20]

That's always been Bomb, though.
... it took me how many years before I realized that the way he uses the term "newspeak" is itself "newspeak"?

That's opinion, not fact.

I mean seriously, the guy throws a GD tantrum every time anyone tries to use "gender" as a concept distinct from sex, and then accuses all the other people of preventing conversations through the control of language on account that they use words that allow accessing meanings that Bomb doesn't think should be capable of being discussed.

That, in contrast, is a verifiably false claim. It never happened. Jarhyn made it up. I have consistently distinguished gender from sex and when I've corrected people who used "gender" incorrectly it wasn't for using it as a concept distinct from sex, but for using it to mean some other concept distinct from gender -- usually "gender identity", which is a third thing different from both gender and sex. There is nothing about those corrections that disallows accessing any meaning; all they disallow is equivocation fallacies. Whatever meaning about gender identity people are trying to access, they can perfectly well access it by calling it "gender identity". And of course none of my corrections was "a GD tantrum"; neither are there meanings I don't think should be capable of being discussed. Jarhyn is simply slandering me. Funny story about that...

All slander is an attempt to get someone else to do violence of some kind and is itself attempted violence.

And no, you aren't being silenced by "abti-blashemy practices",

Didn't say I was. I said gender ideology puts us at risk of that. Gender ideologues have a long track record of attempting to silence those who dispute their contentions, and often succeeding in private forums in the US, and in public forums too in countries without robust free-speech guarantees, most infamously, in Britain.

you are being silenced by "anti-anti-social-asshole practices", Bomb. I'll let you make the connections as to why, assuming you can.

Utter bosh. It should be self-evident that I am not being silenced.

Which all raises a follow-up question to the two of you who "Like"d Jarhyn's post: What on earth did you like about it?

 

[Jarhyn]

That's always been Bomb, though.
... it took me how many years before I realized that the way he uses the term "newspeak" is itself "newspeak"?

That's opinion, not fact.

No, it is materially a satisfaction of the original definition of newspeak, which is, paraphrased:

Prevention of access to meanings that someone doesn't think should be capable of being discussed, through the policing of meanings.

I mean seriously, the guy throws a GD tantrum every time anyone tries to use "gender" as a concept distinct from sex, and then accuses all the other people of preventing conversations through the control of language on account that they use words that allow accessing meanings that Bomb doesn't think should be capable of being discussed.

That, in contrast, is a verifiably false claim. It never happened. Jarhyn made it up. I have consistently distinguished gender from sex and when I've corrected people who used "gender" incorrectly it wasn't for using it as a concept distinct from sex, but for using it to mean some other concept distinct from gender -- usually "gender identity"

Ok, so, now you're going to get into hair-splitting to attempt to pretend that you haven't equates gender and sex.

Gender is specifically here the set of behaviors driven by the structure of the brain as distinctly formed by specific biological processes.

Gender identity is the behavioral manifestation of that inner gender, and pretending that it's inappropriate to identify the gender through its expression on identity, when that's literally what the function of gender is there to create, is excessive policing of language with the intent to prevent the discussion of concepts you don't want to acknowledge.

It

Is

Newspeak.

<Snip whinges and bullshit>

​

All slander is an attempt to get someone else to do violence of some kind and is itself attempted violence.

Bring it. I've dissected your fucking newspeak in realtime when you spewed it, including your accusations of "newspeak" in an attempt to shut down conversation!

And no, you aren't being silenced by "abti-blashemy practices",

Didn't say I was.

You said it through implication.

I said gender ideology puts us at risk of that.

So, the belief that gender exists.

Gender ideologues

People who believe gender exists, by my measure of your hyperbole

have a long track record of attempting to silence those who dispute their contentions,

No, that would be the people literally silencing folks are the CAS review and silencing all the actual research and silencing anyone who disagrees.

and often succeeding in private forums in the US,

Oh, succeeding, in private forums to silence... Tens of individuals, I am sure. You have been anything but silent for decades, and mostly on behalf of fascist interests, and loudest when it allows you to silence by sheer volume of your screeching and disagreement with the very nature of the conversation any real discussion on the topic.

Congratulations, because you and derec Emily have managed to shit on and silence literally every conversation we have had on the issue because you wanted to bowl in and complain about the language we used!

and in public forums too in countries without robust free-speech guarantees, most infamously, in Britain.

And lest we forget, the CAS review has led to, most infamously, the failure of free access to medical transition.

Or where JK Rowlings is dumping a fortune freely into trans-exclusion.

you are being silenced by "anti-anti-social-asshole practices", Bomb. I'll let you make the connections as to why, assuming you can.

Utter bosh. It should be self-evident that I am not being silenced.

Nope. You and others are using your loudness to silence others.

I would prefer if you and some others coild just let people have a conversation without sea-lioning or some equivalent.

Which all raises a follow-up question to the two of you who "Like"d Jarhyn's post: What on earth did you like about it?

The fact that I'm right, mostly, I think, and that you are everything you have accused me of being as a very skillful projectionist.

 

[Emily Lake]

Emily’s position is that this individual is faking the trans; my position is that it doesn’t matter. Everybody should be free and safe to use bathroom facilities and locker rooms and nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted.

Clarification - I don't care if he's faking. I care that he is male. That's all. If he genuinely and sincerely believes he's a girl is irrelevant to me. The fact is that he is male, and he has used his male body and his male strength to assault and rape girls... in the girl's bathroom. All because he claimed to be trans. He said magic words, so he was given the special privilege of entering a female intimate space.

It's largely been the trans privilege activists who insisted he wasn't "real trans". The reason being that he assaulted girls, and a "real trans" would never do that... so the fact that he did means he's not "real trans".

I don't actually care if he's sincere or not. Trans is at best an identity, it's a mindset, it's a desire for what one wishes they could be. It's not a reflection of an observable and independent reality. I care as much about a transgender identity as I do about a catholic identity.

Emily believes. Being trans is a mental disorder. I believe in the science that says there are physical differences in brain Abd genetic structures that create these differences .

I believe that at least some people who claim to be trans have a mental disorder. Some probably not. There is reasonable scientific support (as opposed to the ever-present psudoscientific hypotheses) that a small portion of same-sex attracted males have a neurological aspect to their dysphoria. This occurs at a young age, pre-puberty, and persists throughout time with no material change.

On the other hand, a fairly large portion of males who identify as trans at the onset of puberty are just gay and confused, very often autistic as well. For those, if you just let them complete puberty without intervention, they will become comfortable being gay and will also have a healthy, fully functional body.

The men who discover their gender identity late in life are almost all heterosexual - they're males who are attracted to females. And they're almost entirely men with a cross-dressing or autogynephilic paraphilia. And I absolutely consider that a mental disorder - it's STILL in the DSM V as a disorder.

There's also a very, very, very small number of men who delusionally believe that their body is the wrong body, in very much the same way that someone with a disorder might sincerely believe that the hand on their arm is not their hand, that it's foreign or alien.

Maybe you have us confused.

Maybe you have some issue with me and have decided this is the hill upon which we battle to the death.

Or, since we are cross posting here and I just read your post above, you have decided I’m someone to hate because I’m a woman.

We all have some amount of self loathing at some point in our lives. The best we can do is to try to love ourselves and be the best we can. And not externalizing it and dumping it in other people.

I do not give a shit which, which combination of those or something entirely different.

Those are all a you problem. I can’t fix it for you.

Alternatively, Poli is so dedicated to making sure that men get the special privilege of overriding female boundaries that any woman who disagrees with even the smallest aspect of his cause is a bigot.

I agree that what matters most is that this individual raped other students. At two different schools. Apparently under the guise of being trans which gave them more access to girls in restrooms. And probably greater latitude and ‘understanding.’

No one deserves to be raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by anyone.

Full stop.

There is no justification. It dies t matter if the victim is male, female, intersex, trans, old, young, virgin, sex worker, whatever. No one should ever be sexually assaulted. Under any circumstance.

Agreed. I just take it one step further than you. I actively object to removing safeguards that help to mitigate those assaults against women and girls. I don't want people who identify as trans to be harmed, and I sincerely hope they aren't. But the policies being pushed in the name of trans rights are ones that eradicate safeguards that we rely on to mitigate our already too high risks. Removing those barriers in order to affirm the subjective feelings of some males at the cost of all females is something I can't get behind.

This is also not the only case of trans status being abused. Richard Cox is a sex offender with a felony record who exposed his dick to women and girls in two different counties. One county decided that since he said he's trans, it was perfectly fine, because he was in female locker rooms. The other initially arrested him because his pre-existing sex offender status precludes him from loitering within 100 feet of schools. He exposed his dick in a high school locker room (how the hell he got in there in the first place is something I haven't managed to figure out). His case was thrown out because the judge decided that "loitering" is poorly defined. Cox has previously sexually assaulted women, and was found in possession of child porn. But he says he's a transwoman... so the risk he presents to women and girls is not taken into consideration.

Arlington judge throws out indictments against sex offender Richard Cox

There are several new developments to a sex offender case that 7News has extensively covered for more than a year.Registered sex offender Richard Cox is facing

wjla.com

View attachment 54379

Darren Merager had a history of repeated felony sex offenses, including indecent exposure and flashing. He decided to change the marker on his driver's license. Then he went to a Korean spa, stripped down, and marched his dick right on into the female side of the nude spa. When the women there complained, they were called bigots for noticing the dick in the dick-less side of the spa. They were hounded and harassed and received death threats for it. Merager was arrested... but despite his history of exposure and felony level offenses, he was found "not guilty" because he said he was trans. So a sex offender with multiple felonies related to flashing was deemed to not be flashing because he was only showing his dick to nonconsenting women in a women-only nude spa.

Transgender Acquitted in LA Korean Spa Exposure Case Despite Past Sex Crime Convictions

Transgender acquitted in LA Korean spa exposure case despite prior sex crime convictions. Korean spa in Washington loses related court battle.

en.koreadaily.com

View attachment 54380


This is the crux of the issue for me. The feelings of males with histories of sex offenses against women are being prioritized in law above the safety and rights of women. Neither of these men is "trans" in any meaningful or rational way - they're "women" solely because they say they are. There's no objective measure, it's completely based on their say so.

And the net result is that two sex offenders are now LEGALLY allowed to continue offending against women, as long as they commit their offenses in spaces reserved for women.

It's a predator's daydream.

The actual issue is that jail or prison should not involve physical or sexual violence as part of the sentence.

This applies to everyone: male, female, intersex, trans, etc.

When the state incarcerates anyone, they have an absolute duty to prevent violence against inmates by anyone, and to provide decent food and water, medical care, clean and safe accommodations that provide adequate temperature control.

I don't know why you're talking about jail here.

I agree that nobody should be subjected to physical or sexual violence while incarcerated, but that's not at all related to my post.

 

[Emily Lake]

The fact that I'm right, mostly, I think, and that you are everything you have accused me of being as a very skillful projectionist.

Nah, you just have a rich inner life and some people are fans of your fiction.

 

[Emily Lake]

I find it... interesting I guess... that the many proponents of trans rights, who insist that there is no risk at all to women by allowing men into female spaces if those men say they're women... have nothing at all to say about these two cases.

This is also not the only case of trans status being abused. Richard Cox is a sex offender with a felony record who exposed his dick to women and girls in two different counties. One county decided that since he said he's trans, it was perfectly fine, because he was in female locker rooms. The other initially arrested him because his pre-existing sex offender status precludes him from loitering within 100 feet of schools. He exposed his dick in a high school locker room (how the hell he got in there in the first place is something I haven't managed to figure out). His case was thrown out because the judge decided that "loitering" is poorly defined. Cox has previously sexually assaulted women, and was found in possession of child porn. But he says he's a transwoman... so the risk he presents to women and girls is not taken into consideration.

Arlington judge throws out indictments against sex offender Richard Cox

There are several new developments to a sex offender case that 7News has extensively covered for more than a year.Registered sex offender Richard Cox is facing

wjla.com

View attachment 54379

Darren Merager had a history of repeated felony sex offenses, including indecent exposure and flashing. He decided to change the marker on his driver's license. Then he went to a Korean spa, stripped down, and marched his dick right on into the female side of the nude spa. When the women there complained, they were called bigots for noticing the dick in the dick-less side of the spa. They were hounded and harassed and received death threats for it. Merager was arrested... but despite his history of exposure and felony level offenses, he was found "not guilty" because he said he was trans. So a sex offender with multiple felonies related to flashing was deemed to not be flashing because he was only showing his dick to nonconsenting women in a women-only nude spa.

Transgender Acquitted in LA Korean Spa Exposure Case Despite Past Sex Crime Convictions

Transgender acquitted in LA Korean spa exposure case despite prior sex crime convictions. Korean spa in Washington loses related court battle.

en.koreadaily.com

View attachment 54380


This is the crux of the issue for me. The feelings of males with histories of sex offenses against women are being prioritized in law above the safety and rights of women. Neither of these men is "trans" in any meaningful or rational way - they're "women" solely because they say they are. There's no objective measure, it's completely based on their say so.

And the net result is that two sex offenders are now LEGALLY allowed to continue offending against women, as long as they commit their offenses in spaces reserved for women.

It's a predator's daydream.