We Need More Kids

[DBT]

Given similar ratios of wealth, lifestyle, etc, a world population of two billion is not going to place the same demand on environment and resources as a population of ten billion or more.

Why would we assume similar ratios of wealth? We could have two billion people with similar wealth to the wealthiest quarter of our current population. After all, they have access to all the resources that quarter used to get wealthy, and then some.

How do you propose to stop people from wanting nice things, and why do you think that would be worth doing, even if we could?

I'm not proposing that anyone should be stopped from raising their standard of living. We can't deny anyone that right.

I'm just pointing to the problem as it appears to be, that we are not living sustainably, that some are pushing for business as usual, which is preventing effective economic reforms, climate mitigation, etc...with some claiming that there is no problem, that anthropomorphic climate change is a hoax, and so on.

 

[KCFlyer]

There is a white elephant in the room, which is to say, the wrong people are having kids.

And the administration's latest move to defund Planned Parenthood will result if a dramatic increase in two things - abortions, or for those who can't afford an abortion, have more of "the wrong people" having kids. Planned Parenthood had 1,600,000 contraceptive clients in a year. These are people who don't want to have kids for whatever reason. A lot of then are "the wrong people". The get $16 million from Title X family planning (the bulk of the government money going there). For $10 per client "the wrong people" are not having babies. But we want to defund them. And with nothing to replace them, well...we will end up with more kids.

I guess they are relying on a lot of babies being born to adopt. But can a woman who can't afford an abortion afford the prenatal care and delivery costs, which average about $19,000.? We currently give them $16 million to provide contraception for 1.6 million clients. IF we want them to have "adoptable" babies, we would likely need to make prenatal care and delivery available to them. With $16 million, we could pay for about 900 babies. If the pregnancy rate was to rise by 5% of those clients (80,000)...prenatal care would cost us $1.5 billion.

 

[Toni]

Gifting this article and posting it here because it is a good example of the fact that this administration has its head up its ass re: women, families and healthcare ( and everything else) plus is an excellent example of the rural-urban divide. Nice to see laud plain that this is not an exclusive Democrat issue and if they are even a little bit clever, they will jump all over this with both feet and run with it hard:

https://wapo.st/3HWkA3o

The Medicaid cuts are only one of several changes across the federal government that are making it harder to safely have a baby — especially for low-income women, according to hospital administrators, maternal health researchers, obstetricians and health care advocates. The changes come even as Trump and his allies have embraced a pro-natalist agenda, with Trump floating a $5,000 “baby bonus” and Vice President JD Vance saying he wants “more babies in the United States of America.”
Trump, who has repeatedly vowed to protect Medicaid benefits, has cast the cuts as targeting only “waste, fraud and abuse.” The savings are achieved primarily by imposing federal work requirements for the first time on Medicaid recipients. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects 10 million people will lose coverage in the next decade, an estimate the White House has disputed.

Medicaid is the largest source of funding for pregnancy services nationwide, covering 41 percent of births and almost half of births in rural areas, according to KFF. The work requirements, set to go into effect in 2027, mandate that able-bodied adults between 19 and 64 work at least 80 hours a month or complete other qualifying activities, such as volunteering or schooling, to qualify for Medicaid, which is jointly funded by the states and the federal government.

I will share that my grandchild was safely delivered, despite some increasing health complications for the mother, including both pre term Preeclampsia and postpartum preeclampsia, which threatened the mother’s life and the baby!/ life ( pre-term) and continued to threaten the mother’s life post partum, resulting in re-hospitalization for a short period, the day after they were home from the hospital. I am extremely grateful that Medicare covered the prenatal, labor and delivery and postnatal care of mother and baby. This care included in home visits by a nurse in the post partum period which were frankly responsible for saving the health and quite possibly the life of the mother when the nurse noticed an uptick in BP which sent them back to the hospital. I shudder to think what would have happened if they were living in a rural area with hours to the hospital or if home visits had not been part of the care they received. The mother could easily have suffered a serious stroke before delivery or after, leaving the family with only one parent or one parent plus a seriously disabled parent.

If you want to know why women are having fewer babies, this is a huge reason. Health care is increasingly less accessible for women seeking ob-gyn services, and particularly so in rural areas.

The US is one of only twenty countries in the world to report a significant increase in maternal mortality since 2000.

Maternal Mortality in the United States: A Primer

A decades-long focus on improving hospital maternity care may have diminished the importance of community-based care and overlooked racial/ethnic disparities.

www.commonwealthfund.org

• The most recent U.S. maternal mortality ratio, or rate, of 17.4 per 100,000 pregnancies represented approximately 660 maternal deaths in 2018. This ranks last overall among industrialized countries.
• More than half of recorded maternal deaths occur after the day of birth.

The second statement above is especially noteworthy with the increase in trend of sending mothers home the day of or day after giving birth.

 

[unapologetic]

The home schooling croud is getting dumber.
Unschooling on TikTok is out of control

 

[SLD]

A late post here, but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague. It had a huge impact on economic development because suddenly there was still the same amount of gold in Europe, but 1/3 the population, so on average people were 3 times wealthier. They also could demand more for their labor and kings tried to stop that by demanding more for their wages.

A falling population could create a variety of issues and problems. For the United States and much of Western Europe, we need more workers to support an elderly population, which wasn’t the issue during the plague. Demographic changes matter far more than tax policy. Trump is destroying our economic base by deporting necessary workers and discouraging immigration. The future belongs to countries that welcome immigrants from countries with high youth unemployment.

 

[unapologetic]

but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague.

I have been wondering, What is the impact of Covid? How many died?

 

[Jarhyn]

A late post here, but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague. It had a huge impact on economic development because suddenly there was still the same amount of gold in Europe, but 1/3 the population, so on average people were 3 times wealthier. They also could demand more for their labor and kings tried to stop that by demanding more for their wages.

A falling population could create a variety of issues and problems. For the United States and much of Western Europe, we need more workers to support an elderly population, which wasn’t the issue during the plague. Demographic changes matter far more than tax policy. Trump is destroying our economic base by deporting necessary workers and discouraging immigration. The future belongs to countries that welcome immigrants from countries with high youth unemployment.

I don't actually think our economy is at a loss for the hands to care for the elderly. Few people can care for many people.

The question is really: will those who control the economy tolerate spending the money on this skilled work?

 

[SLD]

A late post here, but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague. It had a huge impact on economic development because suddenly there was still the same amount of gold in Europe, but 1/3 the population, so on average people were 3 times wealthier. They also could demand more for their labor and kings tried to stop that by demanding more for their wages.

A falling population could create a variety of issues and problems. For the United States and much of Western Europe, we need more workers to support an elderly population, which wasn’t the issue during the plague. Demographic changes matter far more than tax policy. Trump is destroying our economic base by deporting necessary workers and discouraging immigration. The future belongs to countries that welcome immigrants from countries with high youth unemployment.

I don't actually think our economy is at a loss for the hands to care for the elderly. Few people can care for many people.

The question is really: will those who control the economy tolerate spending the money on this skilled work?

No. No. No! You totally missed the point. We need workers to pay taxes so elderly will have social security and Medicare. Not to simply provide elder care. Yes that too is necessary and a growing industry for sure. But without a strong worker base, we don’t have tax dollars to pay for our elderly social services.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague.

I have been wondering, What is the impact of Covid? How many died?

Covid killed something like a half or a third of a percent (the data is very bad--recent study found 38% reduction in heart attacks from Covid vaccination, for that to make any sense we must be missing a lot of Covid deaths), but it skewed towards retirees so the effect on the labor pool is less.

 

[Politesse]

but I was reading about the economic impact of the plague.

I have been wondering, What is the impact of Covid? How many died?

So many polities never collected that information at all, let alone reliably, that we will never really know.

 

[Tigers!]

The home schooling croud is getting dumber.
Unschooling on TikTok is out of control

Hmm.
Spending 10 odd years in the state based schooling sausage machine do not guarantee that those forced out the other end will be able to read, write either.

 

[laughing dog]

The home schooling croud is getting dumber.
Unschooling on TikTok is out of control

Hmm.
Spending 10 odd years in the state based schooling sausage machine do not guarantee that those forced out the other end will be able to read, write either.

Not being able to read is a serious deficiency regardless of the cause. IMO, every child should be given the opportunity to learn.

Denying a child that opportunity is a crime.

 

[Tigers!]

The home schooling croud is getting dumber.
Unschooling on TikTok is out of control

Hmm.
Spending 10 odd years in the state based schooling sausage machine do not guarantee that those forced out the other end will be able to read, write either.

Not being able to read is a serious deficiency regardless of the cause. IMO, every child should be given the opportunity to learn.

Denying a child that opportunity is a crime.

No argument from me.
I am more concerned about the mindset that thinks that home schooling automatically produces nothing of value for children yet ignore the state system is not covering itself with glory.
I have worked with too many people straight out of school who might have their VCE (year 12 certificate) but are functionally illiterate or innumerate. And it is not improving.

 

[laughing dog]

The home schooling croud is getting dumber.
Unschooling on TikTok is out of control

Hmm.
Spending 10 odd years in the state based schooling sausage machine do not guarantee that those forced out the other end will be able to read, write either.

Not being able to read is a serious deficiency regardless of the cause. IMO, every child should be given the opportunity to learn.

Denying a child that opportunity is a crime.

No argument from me.
I am more concerned about the mindset that thinks that home schooling automatically produces nothing of value for children yet ignore the state system is not covering itself with glory.
I have worked with too many people straight out of school who might have their VCE (year 12 certificate) but are functionally illiterate or innumerate. And it is not improving.

The video was about a particular form of home schooling called “unschooling”. The intro to the video explicitly said the presenters had no issue with homeschooling.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No argument from me.
I am more concerned about the mindset that thinks that home schooling automatically produces nothing of value for children yet ignore the state system is not covering itself with glory.
I have worked with too many people straight out of school who might have their VCE (year 12 certificate) but are functionally illiterate or innumerate. And it is not improving.

The thing is there is almost zero overlap between those who are competent to homeschool and those who actually homeschool.

It makes good sense when there's a competent parent and some good reason they can't be in a regular school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Apparently we don't need more kids:

More Than 770,000 Children Are No Longer Receiving SNAP Benefits After Trump Changes Federal Food Program

Republican backers of Trump’s signature domestic policy bill repeatedly claimed that revisions to the food benefits program wouldn’t affect the most vulnerable. But reports from a dozen states show children are losing access.

www.propublica.org

770k lost their SNAP benefits.

 

[Jarhyn]

No argument from me.
I am more concerned about the mindset that thinks that home schooling automatically produces nothing of value for children yet ignore the state system is not covering itself with glory.
I have worked with too many people straight out of school who might have their VCE (year 12 certificate) but are functionally illiterate or innumerate. And it is not improving.

The thing is there is almost zero overlap between those who are competent to homeschool and those who actually homeschool.

It makes good sense when there's a competent parent and some good reason they can't be in a regular school.

I mean, parents are usually competent enough to know how incompetent they are in most educational tasks.

No parent is generally going to be widely competent at broad education.

Even those who have gone to college for competence in educating children are only able to pick up enough competence to be able to teach a narrow range of topics or ages or both, usually.

Of course, there are folks who slip through the cracks, but too often this is because they persistently avoided their lessons as individuals.

Trusting that all to parents is asking a lot of people who probably have professions and hobbies that are not "elementary and secondary education"

 

[Toni]

Parents can be well educated, good decent well meaning people and not be good teachers. Or not be good teachers for their children with regards to certain academic subjects or any academic subject.

Usually, it is a very good thing that children are exposed to a number of different teachers who offer different perspectives on learning itself, in addition to the subject.

But it is a mistake to believe that all learning takes place in schools and that parents can abdicate the responsibility for their children's learning and education to the school system.

Too often schools, starting as early as middle school and continuing through universities mistake job training for education. Too often politicians and some segments of society and the general population make the same mistake.

Education is different than job training. I studied a long time to be qualified for the last job I held and after being hired, I still was trained initially for the better part of a year before I was deemed competent on all aspects of my job. In addition, we were expected to maintain a certain number of continuing education credits/year as well as on the job training as new systems were brought on board. Other reading and education was highly encouraged.

Actually, at every job I held except a couple when I was very young, we were encouraged to learn more, in order to be able to expand our knowledge and our roles.

 

[unapologetic]

recent study found 38% reduction in heart attacks from Covid vaccination,

Am I reading that right? Covid vaccination led to a 38% reduction in heart attacks?

Covid killed something like a half or a third of a percent

How many is that?

Spending 10 odd years in the state based schooling sausage machine do not guarantee that those forced out the other end will be able to read, write either.

Nothing is guaranteed. But formal schooling is pro-active. You should at least try to teach basic skills. Not leave it up to the whim of someone who has no responsibilty for their own wellfare.
I got my appreacion of reading, and most of my reading skills, from comics. (It shows, I know). But it started in school. And I resisted learning anything from my parents.

 

[southernhybrid]

There used to be a member here who I met in person. She was a member of a group of women who home schooled their children nd they did a great job. They were mostly atheists and they did a lot of group things and took day trips as well. It's been so long that I don't recall all of the details, but they probably did a much better job than some public schools do. I didn't home school my son, but when his first grade teacher couldn't teach him how to read, I did it on my own. I had him reading within a few weeks. Without me, he would never have eventually gone on to first get an Associate degree in computer technology and then go on to get a BS in computer science. He is now a very accomplished programmer/developer, but due to his Associate degree, he can also build a computer or fix most tech things.

How parents participate in a child's education is very important when it comes to the end result. This should start in infancy by exposing the child to many different things. Children have different levels of intelligence but parental involvement in their development is as important as formal education, when it comes to the success of the child over time.