How gays sound like

[DrZoidberg]

In case you were wondering

 

[WAB]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I watched but I really don't hear it. What is the deal? Also, both guys are fabulous but those shirts they're wearing -- strictly from school photo day in fourth grade. Guy #1: honey, you're rocking the beard but you need a mesh muscle shirt if you go clubbing. Guy #2: you haven't been a twink since 2022, but something Hilfiger would pump it up. Trust me, you'd slay.
What am I not hearing, bitches?

 

[pood]

In case you were wondering

Did you have some point in posting this, and in again violating the rules here by not posting a summary of the video?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

But the video isn't about those gays. Its about the gays who are told they have "a gay voice".

Gays not sounding gay hardly needs an explanation. Don't you agree?

 

[pood]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

But the video isn't about those gays. Its about the gays who are told they have "a gay voice".

Gays not sounding gay hardly needs an explanation. Don't you agree?

‘Why is this nonsense even worth talking about? And where is the required summary of the video?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Did you have some point in posting this, and in again violating the rules here by not posting a summary of the video?

Since there is no summary nor heavily scientific discussion, I've tried to get the ball rolling. I watched the video and am now using AI to get a summary: Gemini Pro and ChatGPT. I have sent the same prompt so that we can see commonalities and differences in how they respond. Note that I checked the existence of the 4 scientific papers that Gemini gave, but the fourth link timed out in my browser. Sometimes, these give hallucinations.

All that said, the feedback from AI gives much more to ponder, IMO, than a mere title and video link.

Someone made a post on an Internet discussion forum in a section for social science. It was simply a youtube video:


Could you (1) provide a 2 paragraph summary of the video? (2) They talk about studies in the video, could you suggest a link or two of scientific studies, preferably from peer-reviewed journals that they might be referring to? (3) Are there opposing studies?

(4) One such study they discuss mentions 3 European studies where data was observed, but then the narrator jumps to the conclusion of the finding being cross-cultural and across languages. The 3 mentioned countries all have significant influences over each other and significant shared history, though. Do these observations hold water in any non-Western countries with relatively free gay populations (i.e. can be free to express themselves at least somewhat)? Are there studies in support of this or not?

(5) Can you comment in 1 or 2 paragraphs on whether this is nature or nurture, both, or undetermined?

Video Summary​

The AsapSCIENCE video explores the linguistics and science behind the "gay voice," examining whether it is a quantifiable phenomenon or merely a cultural stereotype. Researchers have found that gay men typically exhibit greater pitch variation—meaning their vocal range from low to high is more extreme than that of straight men—and tend to hold vowel sounds like A, I, and U for longer durations. Additionally, while there is a common misconception that gay men are more likely to have a lisp, studies show they simply over-articulate consonants like "S" more frequently than straight men. These acoustic features have been documented across multiple languages, including English, Dutch, and French.

When examining why these differences exist, the video dismisses biological factors like testosterone levels and instead highlights environmental and social adaptation. Both straight and gay men unconsciously modulate their voices depending on their audience; for example, straight men lower their pitch in leadership roles or around attractive women, while gay men often shift to a higher or more stereotypical vocal range around friends or people they have already come out to. Ultimately, the "gay voice" functions as a sociolinguistic adaptation that helps individuals signal their identity and connect with their community, blending some female speech characteristics with unique auditory features entirely its own.

Scientific Studies & Literature​

Your prompt cut off at the end, but assuming you are looking for links or references to the specific studies mentioned in the video (such as the Italian studies or cross-cultural pitch studies), the academic field studying this is called sociophonetics.

Here are peer-reviewed papers that align with the specific claims made in the video:

• Cross-Linguistic and Italian Studies: The video mentions research involving Italian speakers and how sexual orientation is perceived across languages. Sulpizio et al. (2015) conducted a foundational study on Italian and German speakers, finding that listeners categorize sexual orientation based on vocal stereotypes across different languages, though their actual accuracy relies more on listener expectations than the speaker's true identity.
• Acoustic Properties (Pitch and Vowels): The video's claims about pitch variability and vowel durations are foundational to this research area. Holmes et al. (2024) reviewed voice acoustic properties and confirmed that differences in vowel formants (how vowels are shaped) and articulation are distinct acoustic markers of sexual orientation.
• The "S" Sound Across Cultures: The video notes the over-articulation of the "S" sound. Boyd et al. (2021) examined this across English, French, and German speakers, finding that while English speakers heavily associate a fronted /s/ with gay male speech across all languages, French and German listeners do not—highlighting that some of these vocal cues are culturally learned and language-specific rather than biologically universal.
• Voice Modulation (The "Nurture" Argument): The video's conclusion that the "gay voice" is an environmental adaptation is heavily supported by social signaling research. Gay speakers frequently modulate their voices depending on their conversational goals and interlocutors, serving as a tool to underline social identity or navigate potential stigmatization (Fasoli & Maass, 2018).

References

Boyd, Z., Fruehwald, J., & Hall-Lew, L. (2021). Crosslinguistic perceptions of /s/ among English, French, and German listeners. Language Variation and Change, 33, 165–191. https://doi.org/10.1017/s0954394521000089

Cited by: 24

Fasoli, F., & Maass, A. (2018). Voice and Prejudice: The Social Costs of Auditory Gaydar. Atlantic Journal of Communication, 26, 98–110. https://doi.org/10.1080/15456870.2018.1432617

Cited by: 22

Holmes, L., Rieger, G., & Paulmann, S. (2024). The effect of sexual orientation on voice acoustic properties. Frontiers in Psychology, 15. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2024.1412372

Cited by: 4

Sulpizio, S., Fasoli, F., Maass, A., Paladino, M. P., Vespignani, F., Eyssel, F., & Bentler, D. (2015). The Sound of Voice: Voice-Based Categorization of Speakers’ Sexual Orientation within and across Languages. PLOS ONE, 10(e0128882). https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0128882

Cited by: 109

I watched the transcript and tracked down several of the studies and review papers that are relevant to what the video discusses.

1. Two-paragraph summary of the video​

The video, "Why do gay people sound like that?" by AsapSCIENCE, examines whether there is scientific evidence for what is sometimes called a "gay voice." The narrator explains that researchers have studied various acoustic features of speech, including pitch variation, vowel duration, and the pronunciation of sounds such as /s/. According to the video, some studies have found that gay men, on average, use a wider pitch range, hold certain vowels longer, and may articulate the /s/ sound differently than heterosexual men. The video notes that these patterns have been reported in studies involving English, Dutch, and French speakers, leading the narrator to suggest that the phenomenon is not limited to a single language or culture. (Scribe)

The second half of the video emphasizes that these are statistical tendencies rather than universal traits. Many gay men do not exhibit these speech patterns, and many straight men do. The narrator also discusses research suggesting that speech style may become more pronounced after coming out, which has led some researchers to propose that speech can function as a social signal of identity. The video briefly mentions that lesbian speech has also been studied, though much less extensively, and concludes that sexual orientation cannot be reliably determined from speech alone. (Scribe)

---

2. Peer-reviewed studies they are probably referring to​

A few good candidates are:

Speech production studies​

Sulpizio et al. (2015)
"The Sound of Voice: Voice-Based Categorization of Speakers' Sexual Orientation within and across Languages"

This study examined German and Italian speakers and listeners. An interesting finding was that listeners often thought they could identify sexual orientation from speech, but their actual accuracy was limited. (PMC)

Perception and cross-language studies​

Boyd, Fruehwald & Hall-Lew (2021)
"Crosslinguistic perceptions of /s/ among English, French, and German listeners"

Published in Language Variation and Change (Cambridge University Press). This paper examines how listeners in different languages interpret pitch and /s/ pronunciation as cues associated with sexual orientation. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

Review article​

"The effect of sexual orientation on voice acoustic properties" (review article)

This paper reviews roughly ten studies from multiple languages and summarizes findings on pitch variation, vowel duration, sibilants (/s/ sounds), and related acoustic features. It is useful because it discusses both positive and negative findings. (PMC)

---

3. Are there opposing studies?​

Yes, and this is important.

A common media summary is that "gay men sound different." The literature is actually much more nuanced.

For example:

• Some studies find statistically significant differences in pitch variation, vowel duration, or /s/ pronunciation. (PMC)
• Other studies find little or no difference in some of those same acoustic measures. (PMC)
• Several studies conclude that listeners are often relying on stereotypes rather than accurately detecting orientation. (PMC)

One particularly interesting result is that people consistently classify some voices as "gay-sounding," but those classifications are not necessarily accurate reflections of the speaker's actual sexual orientation. (PMC)

So the evidence is not that there is a single objective "gay voice." Rather, there appear to be certain speech patterns that are statistically associated with some groups of gay men, but the overlap between groups is enormous.

---

4. Does the cross-cultural claim hold up outside Western countries?​

This is where I think the video becomes somewhat overstated.

The narrator mentions findings from English, Dutch, and French. From that he suggests the effect is "beyond language" and cross-cultural. Strictly speaking, that's a much stronger claim than the evidence supports.

English, Dutch, and French speakers are all:

• Indo-European languages
• Western societies
• Heavily interconnected culturally
• Exposed to similar media environments

Demonstrating a pattern in those three populations does not automatically establish universality.

In fact, some of the literature explicitly warns against overgeneralization. The large cross-national study by Rahman, Xu, and Lippa notes that cross-cultural research on sexual orientation is complicated because identity labels and social meanings differ dramatically across cultures. The authors caution that Western categories do not always map cleanly onto non-Western societies. (PMC)

There is some evidence that certain speech cues (especially pitch variation) are noticed across several European languages. However, researchers have also found cultural differences in how listeners interpret those cues. For example, English listeners associated certain /s/ pronunciations with sounding gay, while French and German listeners often did not—even when the speech production differences existed. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

As for non-Western countries, the evidence is much thinner. There are studies including participants from countries such as India, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Turkey, and the Philippines when looking at broader sexual-orientation prevalence and expression, but the specific "gay voice" literature is still heavily concentrated in Europe and North America. (PMC)

So my assessment would be:

Evidence supports the existence of some recurring speech patterns across several Western languages, but the claim that these patterns are universally cross-cultural remains only partially established.

That is a considerably weaker conclusion than the video implies.

---

5. Nature, nurture, both, or undetermined?​

The current evidence points most strongly toward both biological and social influences, with neither side providing a complete explanation.

Regarding sexual orientation itself, the mainstream scientific view is that there is no evidence it is simply a voluntary choice. Genetic studies, prenatal hormone research, twin studies, and cross-cultural observations all suggest substantial biological influences. At the same time, no single "gay gene" or simple biological mechanism has been found. Most researchers view sexual orientation as arising from a complex interaction of multiple biological factors. (DW News)

The question of a "gay voice" is somewhat different. Even if sexual orientation has strong biological components, speech patterns are learned behaviors shaped by culture, peer groups, identity, and self-expression. Some researchers have proposed that certain speech features may emerge as social markers within gay communities, while others emphasize that listeners often project stereotypes onto speakers. The evidence therefore seems strongest for a mixed model: biology may influence orientation, while speech style is likely influenced by both individual disposition and social environment. The precise balance remains unresolved. (PMC)

My overall takeaway is that the video is broadly consistent with some published research, but it presents the findings with more certainty and broader cross-cultural implications than the underlying literature currently justifies. The strongest scientific position today is not "all gay men sound different," but rather:

Some speech characteristics show statistical associations with sexual orientation in certain populations, but the effects are modest, variable, culturally mediated, and far from universal.

 

[steve_bank]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

But the video isn't about those gays. Its about the gays who are told they have "a gay voice".

Gays not sounding gay hardly needs an explanation. Don't you agree?

Who cares? Is it ok to be gay and not sound gay, and not ok to be gay and sound gay?

Do gays need your approval as to how they talk?

I walk around Capitol Hill a few times a week for grocery shopping, the center of Seattle's gay community. I hear all kinds of speech. To me t is all nominal. Gays, Latinos, East Europe immigrants. Spice for the gumbo.


I am friends with a gay guy in my building, if he did not tell you you would not know he was gay.


As to the OP I don't think it is a mystery. Hetero men have vocal ranges fro, feminine and high pitched to heavy masculine, same with hetero women. I believe it comes down to genetics and hormones.

And how much of the speech of any group is nature versus culture. Nothing profound with that.

Old news,

AI Overview
Contrary to his tough-guy reputation and George C. Scott's deep, gravelly portrayal in the 1970 film Patton, the real General George S. Patton had a noticeably high-pitched, nasal, and sometimes squeaky voice.

His voice was a massive source of insecurity. To compensate for it and command the attention of his troops, Patton strategically cultivated an aggressive persona. He purposely used excessive, colorful profanity and shock-value language to sound more intimidating and masculine.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I wonder if that is why Mike Tyson became so aggressive in his life.

 

[thebeave]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

But the video isn't about those gays. Its about the gays who are told they have "a gay voice".

Gays not sounding gay hardly needs an explanation. Don't you agree?

Who cares? Is it ok to be gay and not sound gay, and not ok to be gay and sound gay?

Do gays need your approval as to how they talk?

I walk around Capitol Hill a few times a week for grocery shopping, the center of Seattle's gay community. I hear all kinds of speech. To me t is all nominal. Gays, Latinos, East Europe immigrants. Spice for the gumbo.


I am friends with a gay guy in my building, if he did not tell you you would not know he was gay.


As to the OP I don't think it is a mystery. Hetero men have vocal ranges fro, feminine and high pitched to heavy masculine, same with hetero women. I believe it comes down to genetics and hormones.

And how much of the speech of any group is nature versus culture. Nothing profound with that.

Old news,

AI Overview
Contrary to his tough-guy reputation and George C. Scott's deep, gravelly portrayal in the 1970 film Patton, the real General George S. Patton had a noticeably high-pitched, nasal, and sometimes squeaky voice.

His voice was a massive source of insecurity. To compensate for it and command the attention of his troops, Patton strategically cultivated an aggressive persona. He purposely used excessive, colorful profanity and shock-value language to sound more intimidating and masculine.

Lighten up, Francis. Its most likely that Dr. Z just has a scientific curiousity about it. Much like wondering why yawns are contagious, or why dogs like to spin in circles before they lay down. If I remember correctly, Dr. Z hangs out in gay/queer communities at times, so if you think its some sort of bigotry or shaming on his part, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[steve_bank]

I doubt Z has any real curiosity. He seems to start OPs more for shock value.

Shallow, opinionated, and ignorant. Tends to speak in terms of stereotypes.

 

[Elixir]

the feedback from AI gives much more to ponder, IMO, than a mere title and video link.

Nice effort, and thanks. My summary of the summary is it’s exactly what you see and hear. There are vocal peculiarities to every preference that gains a community of adherents.

 

[Jarhyn]

the feedback from AI gives much more to ponder, IMO, than a mere title and video link.

Nice effort, and thanks. My summary of the summary is it’s exactly what you see and hear. There are vocal peculiarities to every preference that gains a community of adherents.

So, I know for my own part -- and I don't talk like that, though I could so easily push on myself and make it happen -- it's that part of me really wants to be a way at times: gossipy, prissy, aloof, even ditzy.

These things are typified by a particular affect, and a lot of older LGBT folks picked "feminine" role models, and dare I say,.grew up like my uncle feeling betrayed they were not born a woman.

The "sass and yass" is a part of throwing off, or perhaps an inverting of an expectation, against the more "Basso Bro" 'masculine trait' voice, which is itself born of the phenempnena of hamming up and performatively demonstrating a lowered voice and the "big, round low range" that those seeking masculine recognition would pick up.

I would say it's going to be a fairly apparent outcome of those that reject "Men" that they also reject the trappings of being "Men", like "Basso-bro" voice, I'll call it; that leaves very few directions to go, and the most clear is the most opposite of that.

It's going to be an emergent, common outcome for those who find themselves rejecting the expectations and culture of Men to distance themselves from its trappings, and if Men lean into a deep voice change, that's one of the things that's going to be leaned away from, often quite dramatically, and quite probably subconsciously.

Combine this natural tendency to lean away from the expectations of "Men" and the tendency of people to flock together toward such "community traits" and I think the effect can be fairly well explained despite a lack of clear reasoning why otherwise.

It would amount to a biological element, albeit a very indirect one.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

Did you have some point in posting this, and in again violating the rules here by not posting a summary of the video?

Since there is no summary nor heavily scientific discussion, I've tried to get the ball rolling. I watched the video and am now using AI to get a summary: Gemini Pro and ChatGPT. I have sent the same prompt so that we can see commonalities and differences in how they respond. Note that I checked the existence of the 4 scientific papers that Gemini gave, but the fourth link timed out in my browser. Sometimes, these give hallucinations.

All that said, the feedback from AI gives much more to ponder, IMO, than a mere title and video link.

Someone made a post on an Internet discussion forum in a section for social science. It was simply a youtube video:


Could you (1) provide a 2 paragraph summary of the video? (2) They talk about studies in the video, could you suggest a link or two of scientific studies, preferably from peer-reviewed journals that they might be referring to? (3) Are there opposing studies?

(4) One such study they discuss mentions 3 European studies where data was observed, but then the narrator jumps to the conclusion of the finding being cross-cultural and across languages. The 3 mentioned countries all have significant influences over each other and significant shared history, though. Do these observations hold water in any non-Western countries with relatively free gay populations (i.e. can be free to express themselves at least somewhat)? Are there studies in support of this or not?

(5) Can you comment in 1 or 2 paragraphs on whether this is nature or nurture, both, or undetermined?

Video Summary​

The AsapSCIENCE video explores the linguistics and science behind the "gay voice," examining whether it is a quantifiable phenomenon or merely a cultural stereotype. Researchers have found that gay men typically exhibit greater pitch variation—meaning their vocal range from low to high is more extreme than that of straight men—and tend to hold vowel sounds like A, I, and U for longer durations. Additionally, while there is a common misconception that gay men are more likely to have a lisp, studies show they simply over-articulate consonants like "S" more frequently than straight men. These acoustic features have been documented across multiple languages, including English, Dutch, and French.

When examining why these differences exist, the video dismisses biological factors like testosterone levels and instead highlights environmental and social adaptation. Both straight and gay men unconsciously modulate their voices depending on their audience; for example, straight men lower their pitch in leadership roles or around attractive women, while gay men often shift to a higher or more stereotypical vocal range around friends or people they have already come out to. Ultimately, the "gay voice" functions as a sociolinguistic adaptation that helps individuals signal their identity and connect with their community, blending some female speech characteristics with unique auditory features entirely its own.

Scientific Studies & Literature​

Your prompt cut off at the end, but assuming you are looking for links or references to the specific studies mentioned in the video (such as the Italian studies or cross-cultural pitch studies), the academic field studying this is called sociophonetics.

Here are peer-reviewed papers that align with the specific claims made in the video:

• Cross-Linguistic and Italian Studies: The video mentions research involving Italian speakers and how sexual orientation is perceived across languages. Sulpizio et al. (2015) conducted a foundational study on Italian and German speakers, finding that listeners categorize sexual orientation based on vocal stereotypes across different languages, though their actual accuracy relies more on listener expectations than the speaker's true identity.
• Acoustic Properties (Pitch and Vowels): The video's claims about pitch variability and vowel durations are foundational to this research area. Holmes et al. (2024) reviewed voice acoustic properties and confirmed that differences in vowel formants (how vowels are shaped) and articulation are distinct acoustic markers of sexual orientation.
• The "S" Sound Across Cultures: The video notes the over-articulation of the "S" sound. Boyd et al. (2021) examined this across English, French, and German speakers, finding that while English speakers heavily associate a fronted /s/ with gay male speech across all languages, French and German listeners do not—highlighting that some of these vocal cues are culturally learned and language-specific rather than biologically universal.
• Voice Modulation (The "Nurture" Argument): The video's conclusion that the "gay voice" is an environmental adaptation is heavily supported by social signaling research. Gay speakers frequently modulate their voices depending on their conversational goals and interlocutors, serving as a tool to underline social identity or navigate potential stigmatization (Fasoli & Maass, 2018).

References

Boyd, Z., Fruehwald, J., & Hall-Lew, L. (2021). Crosslinguistic perceptions of /s/ among English, French, and German listeners. Language Variation and Change, 33, 165–191. https://doi.org/10.1017/s0954394521000089

Cited by: 24

Fasoli, F., & Maass, A. (2018). Voice and Prejudice: The Social Costs of Auditory Gaydar. Atlantic Journal of Communication, 26, 98–110. https://doi.org/10.1080/15456870.2018.1432617

Cited by: 22

Holmes, L., Rieger, G., & Paulmann, S. (2024). The effect of sexual orientation on voice acoustic properties. Frontiers in Psychology, 15. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2024.1412372

Cited by: 4

Sulpizio, S., Fasoli, F., Maass, A., Paladino, M. P., Vespignani, F., Eyssel, F., & Bentler, D. (2015). The Sound of Voice: Voice-Based Categorization of Speakers’ Sexual Orientation within and across Languages. PLOS ONE, 10(e0128882). https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0128882

Cited by: 109

I watched the transcript and tracked down several of the studies and review papers that are relevant to what the video discusses.

1. Two-paragraph summary of the video​

The video, "Why do gay people sound like that?" by AsapSCIENCE, examines whether there is scientific evidence for what is sometimes called a "gay voice." The narrator explains that researchers have studied various acoustic features of speech, including pitch variation, vowel duration, and the pronunciation of sounds such as /s/. According to the video, some studies have found that gay men, on average, use a wider pitch range, hold certain vowels longer, and may articulate the /s/ sound differently than heterosexual men. The video notes that these patterns have been reported in studies involving English, Dutch, and French speakers, leading the narrator to suggest that the phenomenon is not limited to a single language or culture. (Scribe)

The second half of the video emphasizes that these are statistical tendencies rather than universal traits. Many gay men do not exhibit these speech patterns, and many straight men do. The narrator also discusses research suggesting that speech style may become more pronounced after coming out, which has led some researchers to propose that speech can function as a social signal of identity. The video briefly mentions that lesbian speech has also been studied, though much less extensively, and concludes that sexual orientation cannot be reliably determined from speech alone. (Scribe)

---

2. Peer-reviewed studies they are probably referring to​

A few good candidates are:

Speech production studies​

Sulpizio et al. (2015)
"The Sound of Voice: Voice-Based Categorization of Speakers' Sexual Orientation within and across Languages"

This study examined German and Italian speakers and listeners. An interesting finding was that listeners often thought they could identify sexual orientation from speech, but their actual accuracy was limited. (PMC)

Perception and cross-language studies​

Boyd, Fruehwald & Hall-Lew (2021)
"Crosslinguistic perceptions of /s/ among English, French, and German listeners"

Published in Language Variation and Change (Cambridge University Press). This paper examines how listeners in different languages interpret pitch and /s/ pronunciation as cues associated with sexual orientation. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

Review article​

"The effect of sexual orientation on voice acoustic properties" (review article)

This paper reviews roughly ten studies from multiple languages and summarizes findings on pitch variation, vowel duration, sibilants (/s/ sounds), and related acoustic features. It is useful because it discusses both positive and negative findings. (PMC)

---

3. Are there opposing studies?​

Yes, and this is important.

A common media summary is that "gay men sound different." The literature is actually much more nuanced.

For example:

• Some studies find statistically significant differences in pitch variation, vowel duration, or /s/ pronunciation. (PMC)
• Other studies find little or no difference in some of those same acoustic measures. (PMC)
• Several studies conclude that listeners are often relying on stereotypes rather than accurately detecting orientation. (PMC)

One particularly interesting result is that people consistently classify some voices as "gay-sounding," but those classifications are not necessarily accurate reflections of the speaker's actual sexual orientation. (PMC)

So the evidence is not that there is a single objective "gay voice." Rather, there appear to be certain speech patterns that are statistically associated with some groups of gay men, but the overlap between groups is enormous.

---

4. Does the cross-cultural claim hold up outside Western countries?​

This is where I think the video becomes somewhat overstated.

The narrator mentions findings from English, Dutch, and French. From that he suggests the effect is "beyond language" and cross-cultural. Strictly speaking, that's a much stronger claim than the evidence supports.

English, Dutch, and French speakers are all:

• Indo-European languages
• Western societies
• Heavily interconnected culturally
• Exposed to similar media environments

Demonstrating a pattern in those three populations does not automatically establish universality.

In fact, some of the literature explicitly warns against overgeneralization. The large cross-national study by Rahman, Xu, and Lippa notes that cross-cultural research on sexual orientation is complicated because identity labels and social meanings differ dramatically across cultures. The authors caution that Western categories do not always map cleanly onto non-Western societies. (PMC)

There is some evidence that certain speech cues (especially pitch variation) are noticed across several European languages. However, researchers have also found cultural differences in how listeners interpret those cues. For example, English listeners associated certain /s/ pronunciations with sounding gay, while French and German listeners often did not—even when the speech production differences existed. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

As for non-Western countries, the evidence is much thinner. There are studies including participants from countries such as India, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Turkey, and the Philippines when looking at broader sexual-orientation prevalence and expression, but the specific "gay voice" literature is still heavily concentrated in Europe and North America. (PMC)

So my assessment would be:

Evidence supports the existence of some recurring speech patterns across several Western languages, but the claim that these patterns are universally cross-cultural remains only partially established.

That is a considerably weaker conclusion than the video implies.

---

5. Nature, nurture, both, or undetermined?​

The current evidence points most strongly toward both biological and social influences, with neither side providing a complete explanation.

Regarding sexual orientation itself, the mainstream scientific view is that there is no evidence it is simply a voluntary choice. Genetic studies, prenatal hormone research, twin studies, and cross-cultural observations all suggest substantial biological influences. At the same time, no single "gay gene" or simple biological mechanism has been found. Most researchers view sexual orientation as arising from a complex interaction of multiple biological factors. (DW News)

The question of a "gay voice" is somewhat different. Even if sexual orientation has strong biological components, speech patterns are learned behaviors shaped by culture, peer groups, identity, and self-expression. Some researchers have proposed that certain speech features may emerge as social markers within gay communities, while others emphasize that listeners often project stereotypes onto speakers. The evidence therefore seems strongest for a mixed model: biology may influence orientation, while speech style is likely influenced by both individual disposition and social environment. The precise balance remains unresolved. (PMC)

My overall takeaway is that the video is broadly consistent with some published research, but it presents the findings with more certainty and broader cross-cultural implications than the underlying literature currently justifies. The strongest scientific position today is not "all gay men sound different," but rather:

Some speech characteristics show statistical associations with sexual orientation in certain populations, but the effects are modest, variable, culturally mediated, and far from universal.

As far as I'm concerned people, everyone, can talk however they want. The only reason you would want to quantify that stuff is as a precursor to some sort of judgement.

I, too, have wondered about the change in Dr Z's posting style.

But, Don 2, what you have done is convince me that AI may not be entirely counterproductive.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

But the video isn't about those gays. Its about the gays who are told they have "a gay voice".

Gays not sounding gay hardly needs an explanation. Don't you agree?

Who cares? Is it ok to be gay and not sound gay, and not ok to be gay and sound gay?

Do gays need your approval as to how they talk?

I walk around Capitol Hill a few times a week for grocery shopping, the center of Seattle's gay community. I hear all kinds of speech. To me t is all nominal. Gays, Latinos, East Europe immigrants. Spice for the gumbo.


I am friends with a gay guy in my building, if he did not tell you you would not know he was gay.


As to the OP I don't think it is a mystery. Hetero men have vocal ranges fro, feminine and high pitched to heavy masculine, same with hetero women. I believe it comes down to genetics and hormones.

And how much of the speech of any group is nature versus culture. Nothing profound with that.

Old news,

AI Overview
Contrary to his tough-guy reputation and George C. Scott's deep, gravelly portrayal in the 1970 film Patton, the real General George S. Patton had a noticeably high-pitched, nasal, and sometimes squeaky voice.

His voice was a massive source of insecurity. To compensate for it and command the attention of his troops, Patton strategically cultivated an aggressive persona. He purposely used excessive, colorful profanity and shock-value language to sound more intimidating and masculine.

What are you on about? Who would have a problem with people sounding gay?

You seem upset about something?

 

[Jarhyn]

Who would have a problem with people sounding gay?

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what the facts are like on the ground of a small town.

Secondly, there are major issues about people calling a vocal sound pattern "gay". I'm sure plenty of straight folks would talk however they pleased if people don't casually say the speaking pattern is 'gay'.

But it's not like the cultural association is going to go away any time this century...

 

[steve_bank]

Ant comments on my saying speech quality and attributes are part genetics and and part culture?

Gay, straight, black, white, brown, Native American, Italians, Jews, Germans....

Odd that gays are singled out. Some gays sounds straight, why do some gays not sound straight? You can ask the same question about speech and vocalizations about any culture.

Please, no videos as a response. What do you think?

 

[thebeave]

For those who do enjoy videos, here is another one that goes into a little more depth on the gay voice. If you don't like videos, well then...don't watch it



This guy, Ken LaCorte, has a lot of videos related to things we discuss on IIDB. I find him to be pretty fair, reasonable and interesting. YMMV.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Yeah unless your Rob Halford, or literally thousands and thousands of other gay guys who could beat the daylights out of you with one arm in a sling.

Just what we need- more schoolyard bullies.

 

[TomC]

My partner of over 30 years is extremely gay. Came out in a Podunk small town in southern Indiana.
Several years back he was there visiting, while wearing a shirt that said "How dare you assume I'm straight?"
His ex f-i-l commented that only he could get away with that shirt. Because while he's not big, he's scrappy. After school fights were his favorite sport. He'd kicked the butts of most people who would have given him a hard time. Everyone knew better than to pick a fight with Doug.

My point is that stereotypes about almost everything, particularly gay guys, are dangerously wrong.
Tom