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Iran chooses to remain an enemy

Axulus

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Right leaning skeptic
I had really hoped Iran was turning the corner, and that the latest round of negotiations was actually going to bear fruit. However, the past few days have demonstrated that Iran is once again back to its old ways. Not really sure what to make of it other than that the deal is falling through. It may be time to ratchet up sanctions again. War also seems far more likely at this juncture.

Beyond all the talk of centrifuges and enrichment capacities, President Obama’s deal with Iran is really a giant gamble on the nature of the Iranian regime. The core question is: Are the men who control that country more like Lenin or are they more like Gorbachev? Do they still fervently believe in their revolution and would they use their postsanctions wealth to export it and destabilize their region? Or have they lost faith in their revolution? Will they use a deal as a way to rejoin the community of nations?

We got a big piece of evidence on those questions on Thursday. Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, delivered his first big response to the sort-of-agreed-upon nuclear framework. What did we learn?

First, we learned that Iran’s supreme leader still regards the United States as his enemy. The audience chanted “Death to America” during his speech, and Khamenei himself dismissed America’s “devilish” intentions. When a radical religious leader uses a word like “devilish,” he’s not using it the way it’s used in a chocolate-cake commercial. He means he thinks the United States is the embodiment of evil.

Second, we learned that the West wants a deal more than Khamenei does. “I was never optimistic about negotiating with America,” he declared. Throughout the speech, his words dripped with a lack of enthusiasm for the whole enterprise.

President Obama is campaigning for a deal, while Khamenei is unmoved. That imbalance explains why Western negotiators had to give away so many of their original demands. The United States had originally insisted upon an end to Iran’s nuclear program, a suspension of its enrichment of uranium, but that was conceded to keep Iran at the table.

Third, we learned that the ayatollah is demanding total trust from us while offering maximum contempt in return. Khamenei communicated a smug and self-righteous sense of superiority toward the West throughout his remarks. He haughtily repeated his demand that the West permanently end all sanctions on the very day the deal is signed. He insisted that no inspectors could visit Iranian military facilities. This would make a hash of verification and enforcement.

Fourth, we learned that Khamenei and the U.S. see different realities. It’s been pointed out that Iranian and American officials describe the “agreed upon” framework in different ways. That’s because, Khamenei suggested, the Americans are lying. “I’m really worried as the other side is into lying and breaching promises. An example was the White House fact sheet,” he said. “This came out a few hours after the negotiations, and most of it was against the agreement and was wrong. They are always trying to deceive and break promises.”

Fifth, Khamenei reminded us that, even at the most delicate moment in these talks, he is still intent on putting Iran on a collision course with Sunnis and the West. He attacked the Saudi leaders as “inexperienced youngsters” and criticized efforts to push back on Iranian efforts to destabilize Yemen.

The foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan, characterized Iran’s recent bellicosity this way: “It’s about Iran believing in exporting the revolution. It’s part of their regime, a part of their ideology.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/opinion/david-brooks-the-revolution-lives.html
 
David Brooks should look at Iranian actions rather than rhetoric America came close to electing a man that sang Bomb bomb bomb Iran. So I guess that in the Iranian version of the Times some pundit was writing the same thing.
 
How soon will Iran get high grade uranium?I may be wrong,but refining is kind of hard.Don't they have a lot of nat gas? Nat gas is next step.Point is go to Nuke power and sell gas on the market.I think.
 
Iran is currently backing inter alia Shias in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia is currently backing Sunnis in Yemen.

America is shipping arms to Saudi Arabia to be sent onto Sunni Yemen.

There's a long, long way to go before any kind of detente exists between America and Iran.
 
Listening to Americans talk about Iran as if Iran is the big bad aggressor is pretty funny. Reminds me of Christians there who complain about being "persecuted". America, you are the aggressor. You always have been. Time to get passed the jingoistic blinders and finally realize it.
 
Newsflash, David Brooks observes Ayatollah acting like George Bush. Fails to note irony. Instead appear idiotic.

Imagine that. The leader of a country in the "Axis of Evil™" uses the word "devilish" to describe the country that coined the term Axis of Evil.


Appears idiotic.
 
"I believe in applying Reagan’s approach to foreign policy to the Iran issue"

-Rand Paul
 
Republicans be damned. We don't have any good military options with Iran. Find a strategist who thinks that a massive air strike would put them off for more than five years -- and furthermore, it would put us in a cycle of endless war, because we would have inspired a bloodlust in them. Does anyone seriously think we will institute a policy of serial bombing, where we return every couple of years to drop deep-score bombs on them? We can neither conquer and occupy nor permanently do away with their nuke plants. Any other conclusion is pure Fox 'News' blather. In that sense it is analogous to the situation we confronted when the USSR and then China got into the nuclear club. There never have been perfect, golden answers with Iran -- we need to look logically at the limits of our reach and power. Unfortunately, we have a huge bunch of buzzardlike conservatives perched on the tree branches, using every domestic and foreign threat for raw political gain. (And that anyone would listen to them, considering what they let us in for on 9/11/01 -- in spite of explicit advance warning -- that's a measure of the power of their propaganda.)
 
Beyond all the talk of centrifuges and enrichment capacities, President Obama’s deal with Iran is really a giant gamble on the nature of the Iranian regime. The core question is: Are the men who control that country more like Lenin or are they more like Gorbachev? Do they still fervently believe in their revolution and would they use their postsanctions wealth to export it and destabilize their region?

Is this 'debstabalisation' simply resisting US/Saudi attempts to dominate their neighbour? Because invading a country, executing the leader, breaking it up into smaller territories and then pulling out again seem more like destabalisation than anything Iran is doing. Surely not trying to exercise some control over the clusterf*** that is their neighbour would be the height of irresponsibility?

President Obama is campaigning for a deal, while Khamenei is unmoved. That imbalance explains why Western negotiators had to give away so many of their original demands.

The imbalance is probably more to do with the fact that the US is making unilateral demands of Iran in return for.. letting them live. No one is enthusiastic about that.

Third, we learned that the ayatollah is demanding total trust from us while offering maximum contempt in return.

About his own countries internal affairs? Well yes, of course he is.

He insisted that no inspectors could visit Iranian military facilities. This would make a hash of verification and enforcement.

The US routinely use inspectors as a cover for espionage, and then ignores the inspector's findings when it doesn't suit them. No one agrees to US inspectors any more.

Fourth, we learned that Khamenei and the U.S. see different realities. It’s been pointed out that Iranian and American officials describe the “agreed upon” framework in different ways. That’s because, Khamenei suggested, the Americans are lying. “I’m really worried as the other side is into lying and breaching promises. An example was the White House fact sheet,” he said. “This came out a few hours after the negotiations, and most of it was against the agreement and was wrong. They are always trying to deceive and break promises.”

Have you compared the US fact sheet to the text of the agreement? Was he right? As a political announcement made for US domestic consumption, I don't doubt the fact sheet was spun as hard as possible to make it seem like Obama got a good deal. Isn't this speech just Iran doing the same as the US, for their own people?

Fifth, Khamenei reminded us that, even at the most delicate moment in these talks, he is still intent on putting Iran on a collision course with Sunnis and the West. He attacked the Saudi leaders as “inexperienced youngsters” and criticized efforts to push back on Iranian efforts to destabilize Yemen.

Well they're both funding and supplying rival forces in the Yemen.

The foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan, characterized Iran’s recent bellicosity this way: “It’s about Iran believing in exporting the revolution. It’s part of their regime, a part of their ideology.”

In other words, Iran is starting to act like America does. That is something to worry about.
 
Iran could be USA,s best friend in the mid east.They are not Cray Muslims.they want what you and i want.Kids and jobs and a future.
Iranians, yes. The Religious Establishment that runs the country, no. They want Iran to be as far from The West as possible because moderation is radical religion's kryptonite. So they say stupid shit and the right-wing falls for it every time. Iran destroying Israel would be devastating for the religious right in Iran because they would lose their only whipping boy propaganda tool.
 
I see, so Iran is correct to throw away a deal with the untrustworthy, war mongering Amercians? The Chinese, Russians, and Europeans are just puppets in the whole process, and UN inspectors are really just US spies. Am I getting that all correct? This whole deal was doomed from the start - no one makes deals with the US, expect the Chinese, the Europeans, the Japanese, the South Koreans, Mexico, Canada, etc.? They are all just fools who are cowering under the boot of the US?
 
It would be refreshing if Americans could step back and try to see situations like this a little more objectively. Iran is being pushed by the US to get nuclear weapons... can't you people see that? The more you threaten them the more they need to protect themselves from you. Even if they didn't want nuclear deterrent before, they sure should now. And the hypocrisy of the USA saying that IRAN is meddling in affairs beyond its borders is shocking. USA has no credibility when it comes to such a thing.
 
It would be refreshing if Americans could step back and try to see situations like this a little more objectively. Iran is being pushed by the US to get nuclear weapons... can't you people see that? The more you threaten them the more they need to protect themselves from you. Even if they didn't want nuclear deterrent before, they sure should now. And the hypocrisy of the USA saying that IRAN is meddling in affairs beyond its borders is shocking. USA has no credibility when it comes to such a thing.

I see, so we should let the Saudi's start a war with Iran? You think they'll just sit idly by as Iran gets the nuke? Or perhaps we should just allow that whole region to get flooded with nukes, from Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Emirates (and Qatar, because, why not?). I feel safer already.
 
Iran is currently backing inter alia Shias in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia is currently backing Sunnis in Yemen.

America is shipping arms to Saudi Arabia to be sent onto Sunni Yemen.

There's a long, long way to go before any kind of detente exists between America and Iran.

The Iranians overthrew the Shah, who we installed in 1953.

More importantly, the Iranians are major supporters of the Palestinian cause, especially Hezbollah.

The war drumbeats originate from Israel and its US supporters.
 
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