God and freedom

[Tigers!]

Are hurricanes one of the harsh consequences for teh gays?

What is the association of hurricanes with homosexuality?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Ask one of your buddies.

 

[braces_for_impact]

So many times I hear from the Christian right about how the founding of America is rooted in biblical principles. I keep asking myself, are these people reading the same bible I am? There's nothing in there about justice, equal representation, democracy, or human or equal rights. There is only what you would expect from such an antique document. The divine right of kings to rule. Hello? *knock knock* is there anyone in there?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You mean "thou shalt worship no other gods before me" isn't open and democratic?

 

[dockeen]

Yep, like love me or I will fry you forever.

Look at the horrendous consequences, that come about, all because this insecure god wanted whoreshipers to sing his praises for eternity.

 

[Tigers!]

Oh OK, you've convinced me. I am now a theist.

That was much easier tthan I thought it would be.

 

[Tigers!]

So many times I hear from the Christian right about how the founding of America is rooted in biblical principles. I keep asking myself, are these people reading the same bible I am? There's nothing in there about justice, equal representation, democracy, or human or equal rights. There is only what you would expect from such an antique document. The divine right of kings to rule. Hello? *knock knock* is there anyone in there?

Equal rights
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

We all have the same status before God. Originally made in his image.

 

[Tigers!]

Ask one of your buddies.

Don't know the fellow myself nor had every heard of him.
Foolish people say stupid things all the time.

 

[bilby]

So many times I hear from the Christian right about how the founding of America is rooted in biblical principles. I keep asking myself, are these people reading the same bible I am? There's nothing in there about justice, equal representation, democracy, or human or equal rights. There is only what you would expect from such an antique document. The divine right of kings to rule. Hello? *knock knock* is there anyone in there?

Equal rights
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

We all have the same status before God. Originally made in his image.

An argument that relies entirely on the acceptance of your argument by your audience for its persuasiveness is no argument at all.

Can you provide one single shred of evidence that does not depend on our already believing for its effectiveness?

Galatians, like the rest of the Bible, is fiction. Gods are made in the image of their believers, not the other way about; we can see this clearly by the diversity of religious belief - even within one single congregation, in one single denomination, within the wider umbrella of a single religion, there are disagreements as to the details of what God is, what He wants, and what degree of autonomy we have in doing His bidding.

This is what would be expected if Gods are the creations of men; but if men were all created with the same status before a single creator God, we would expect to see little or no diversity of religious belief - if it is possible to 'know God', then we all would.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Ahem...

Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

I think this is one of those contradiction thingies.

 

[dockeen]

Ask one of your buddies.

Don't know the fellow myself nor had every heard of him.
Foolish people say stupid things all the time.

Don't know him, but willing to write him off as a fool?

Perhaps he knows something you don't?

 

[Mageth]

Consequences are always based on a given set of principles. In the case of God and the issue tolerance, assuming the existence of God, it is God that shapes and forms the set of principles that determines the consequences of dissent. Consequently, it is God who demands obedience by imposing harsh consequences.

Disobedience always has harsh consequences.

If you have an abusive, controlling father.

 

[Mageth]

Consequences are always based on a given set of principles. In the case of God and the issue tolerance, assuming the existence of God, it is God that shapes and forms the set of principles that determines the consequences of dissent. Consequently, it is God who demands obedience by imposing harsh consequences.

Disobedience always has harsh consequences.

If you have an abusive, controlling father.

Oh, and I'm an adult. I am no longer a child, and do not need a father to lay down rules and impose consequences for me.

 

[Mageth]

And another thing about this disobedience thing, Tigers:

I, like others here, lack belief in god(s), including the god you believe in. And it follows that I do not believe that this god (that I do not believe exists) has commanded me to do or not do anything.

I am not commanded by, and cannot disobey, a fictional entity.

 

[Tigers!]

And another thing about this disobedience thing, Tigers:

I, like others here, lack belief in god(s), including the god you believe in. And it follows that I do not believe that this god (that I do not believe exists) has commanded me to do or not do anything.

I am not commanded by, and cannot disobey, a fictional entity.

I don't understand why you spend so much time arguing about what you consider a fictional entity.
You must have lots of spare time.

- - - Updated - - -

Ask one of your buddies.

Don't know the fellow myself nor had every heard of him.
Foolish people say stupid things all the time.

Don't know him, but willing to write him off as a fool?

Perhaps he knows something you don't?

Perhaps he knows something you don't?

I'm sure that you have never written anyone as a fool without first meeting them.

- - - Updated - - -

Consequences are always based on a given set of principles. In the case of God and the issue tolerance, assuming the existence of God, it is God that shapes and forms the set of principles that determines the consequences of dissent. Consequently, it is God who demands obedience by imposing harsh consequences.

Disobedience always has harsh consequences.

If you have an abusive, controlling father.

Even if you don't have an abusive, controlling father disobedience can still have harsh consequences. Consequences are not dependent upon our parents.

 

[bilby]

I don't understand why you spend so much time arguing about what you consider a fictional entity.
You must have lots of spare time.

That would be because so many people use that fictional entity to try to justify interfering with our lives.

Trust me, if people were passing 'niceness' laws to ensure that I could be punished for failing to do Santa's bidding, i would spend plenty of time arguing against Santa's existence.

Fortunately, that isn't necessary with Santa; most adults recognise that he is a fictional character. But it is necessary with God, because plenty of people in positions of power claim that He is real, and pass unjust and/or irrational laws with this as their excuse.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I don't understand why you spend so much time arguing about what you consider a fictional entity.

The concept of god is obviously one of the most powerful concepts in history, and the dominant mode of thinking in many societies is based around the concept of a deity, influencing the decisions of hundreds of millions of people around the world. If it wasn't important there'd be no reason to talk about it.

 

[DBT]

Even if you don't have an abusive, controlling father disobedience can still have harsh consequences. Consequences are not dependent upon our parents.

But you are saying that the consequences of 'dissent' are governed up by God. Eternal damnation and torment as punishment for nothing more than having a questioning mind.

 

[Tigers!]

Even if you don't have an abusive, controlling father disobedience can still have harsh consequences. Consequences are not dependent upon our parents.

But you are saying that the consequences of 'dissent' are governed up by God. Eternal damnation and torment as punishment for nothing more than having a questioning mind.

The consequences of not being political correct are governed by the whinging class. Punishment for nothing more than having a questioning mind about them and their attitude.

Its the way of the world old boy. Questioning minds are never really appreciated.

 

[bilby]

Even if you don't have an abusive, controlling father disobedience can still have harsh consequences. Consequences are not dependent upon our parents.

But you are saying that the consequences of 'dissent' are governed up by God. Eternal damnation and torment as punishment for nothing more than having a questioning mind.

The consequences of not being political correct are governed by the whinging class. Punishment for nothing more than having a questioning mind about them and their attitude.

Its the way of the world old boy. Questioning minds are never really appreciated.

You claim that the way of the world is to not be appreciated for having a questioning mind.

How you get from that slightly questionable claim, to the assertion that it is reasonable for the way of heaven to be tortured in agony for eternity for the same thing is not clear.

It seems fucking insanely disproportionate to me. Like, something that only a psychopathic nut job would even consider for a second.

And yet we are expected to accept that this is perfectly OK when commanded by an individual who is simultaneously described as the embodiment of love and mercy? Pull the other one.

You can claim a psycho nutter God; or a loving merciful God. But not both at once. The paradox kills the idea without resort to further analysis.

If I say I have a table in my garage, it is an unsubstantiated claim. Maybe I do, maybe not.

If I say the table is perfectly round; and is also triangular, then you know I am bullshitting, even if I never let you see inside my garage.

Incoherent God concepts are nonexistent by their own definitions.

You cannot torture your sinners eternally and love them too.

It is perhaps reasonable to consider complaints about being unappreciated as a whinge. Calling somebody a whinger for being unhappy about eternal torture is not on the same scale.