Political correctness out of control

[DrZoidberg]

I'm a liberal. Yes, one of those, a bleeding heart liberal. Tolerance is sacred to me. Just to let people get the fuck on with whatever without judging. To me political correctness is the antithesis of liberalism. It's everything liberalism isn't. IT'S IN THE FUCKING NAME! I personally make an effort not to offend people. Because I'm polite and well behaved. But I'm not going to police others on their use of words. Nor unfriend people who I think uses offensive words. To me that's also to be polite and well behaved. It's the opinion that matters. Not which words are used.

My impression is that political correctness is often white people competing about who is the most tolerant and end up becoming the one thing they're trying not to be... namely fascists. Here's Louis CK explaining what the problem is and how political correctness works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

In Sweden right now there's controversy about the artist Makode Linde who is setting up a show in Stockholm's flashiest and most central art venue. He's calling the show "Negerkungens återkomst" which is Swedish for "Return of the Nigger King". What makes this special is that this is a government owned building. Politics matter. The will of the people and such.

This has led to a debate in various media channels where the director of Kulturhuset (the venue) is telling Makode that it's not acceptable and that he has to change the name. Makode's response was "So a white guy (the director) is telling a black guy (the artist) to stop being racist against blacks. He just doesn't get it. This is just political correctness out of control. He seems to be under the impression that art is a democratic process. It isn't. I'm going to call it whatever I like".

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

 

[jonatha]

In a world in which Donald Trump is the odds-on favorite for nomination as a major party candidate for President of the United States, political correctness is not only not out of control but is barely detectable.

 

[Keith&Co.]

My impression is that political correctness is often white people competing about who is the most tolerant and end up becoming the one thing they're trying not to be... namely fascists.

I think you're incorrect, there.

PC was originally intended as a way to draw people's attention to words and to help them stop casually hurting people with words. Shortly after the beginning, though, it turned into just another way to hurt people with words. Whole new groups of people, in whole new ways.

I don't think it's that the people who use PC as a weapon are 'trying' not to be fascists, I think they're quite comfortable with their fascism. Or at least with having a club to swing on their victims.

 

[repoman]

They are cultural marxists and PC is their little red book.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

No. It isn't out of control. There are certainly circumstances and events where PC sensitivity reaches an absurd to meaningless level (take the yoga example at the Canadian university), but overall, I'd say those events aren't exactly common enough to say it is "out of control".

I would say the resistance to what some consider "PC being out of control" is a bit more common. Take the war against Christmas, for example.

 

[untermensche]

"Political Correctness" is a term with no objective definition.

It was invented by those in power as a shield to protect against protest.

And power always has it's many sycophants that will take up any mantel power invents.

 

[RavenSky]

In a world in which Donald Trump is the odds-on favorite for nomination as a major party candidate for President of the United States, political correctness is not only not out of control but is barely detectable.

^^^ That

And in the example given in the OP, I think it is less about PC and more about CYA

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In a world in which Donald Trump is the odds-on favorite for nomination as a major party candidate for President of the United States, political correctness is not only not out of control but is barely detectable.

^^^ That

And in the example given in the OP, I think it is less about PC and more about CYA

But it'd be CYA over PC concerns.

 

[thebeave]

I'm a liberal. Yes, one of those, a bleeding heart liberal. Tolerance is sacred to me. Just to let people get the fuck on with whatever without judging. To me political correctness is the antithesis of liberalism. It's everything liberalism isn't. IT'S IN THE FUCKING NAME! I personally make an effort not to offend people. Because I'm polite and well behaved. But I'm not going to police others on their use of words. Nor unfriend people who I think uses offensive words. To me that's also to be polite and well behaved. It's the opinion that matters. Not which words are used.

My impression is that political correctness is often white people competing about who is the most tolerant and end up becoming the one thing they're trying not to be... namely fascists. Here's Louis CK explaining what the problem is and how political correctness works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

In Sweden right now there's controversy about the artist Makode Linde who is setting up a show in Stockholm's flashiest and most central art venue. He's calling the show "Negerkungens återkomst" which is Swedish for "Return of the Nigger King". What makes this special is that this is a government owned building. Politics matter. The will of the people and such.

This has led to a debate in various media channels where the director of Kulturhuset (the venue) is telling Makode that it's not acceptable and that he has to change the name. Makode's response was "So a white guy (the director) is telling a black guy (the artist) to stop being racist against blacks. He just doesn't get it. This is just political correctness out of control. He seems to be under the impression that art is a democratic process. It isn't. I'm going to call it whatever I like".

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

Does this answer your question?

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6907

The phrase “politically correct” is now a microaggression according to the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

The university’s “Just Words” campaign is the work of UWM’s “Inclusive Excellence Center” and aims to “raise awareness of microaggressions and their impact”—microaggressions like “politically correct” or “PC.”

Your anecdote about the play in Sweden reminds me of an attempt a couple of years ago (by some well intended white person/organization, I assume) to fine (or suspend?) any player in the NFL who uses the "n word" out on the field. The idea was dropped when it was pointed out that this would actually punish mostly the black players. Such a bizzarro world we live in sometimes.

 

[marc]

A long time ago I saw a political cartoon with politicians, dictators, and terrorists saying "Political correctness depends on your politics". There is no end of examples of people railing against PC, then turning around and denouncing some statement that they found offensive. It is supposed to be about not being a dick and being offensive, which I would agree with. But there are people who seem determined to be offended by anything that is in complete agreement to their ideas. So you have people who want to be openly offensive, people who want to censor anyone who they think is offensive, and wishy-washy types who are too afraid they might offend if they call someone out on the truth.

If I had to choose between those three extreme positions, I would likely side with those being openly offensive. I don't want censorship, and I want people to be called out on their BS rather than be afraid to offend them with the truth. Let the bigots use racial slurs freely, it makes them a lot easier to identify and avoid. After all, freedom of expression does not include freedom from repercussions from saying stupid stuff. Be offensive, and you will be treated accordingly.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

No. It isn't out of control. There are certainly circumstances and events where PC sensitivity reaches an absurd to meaningless level (take the yoga example at the Canadian university), but overall, I'd say those events aren't exactly common enough to say it is "out of control".

I would say the resistance to what some consider "PC being out of control" is a bit more common. Take the war against Christmas, for example.

ha ha... yeah.. "cultural appropriation". I never understood what the problem is with that one? That's not PC, that's just dumb-ass. I can't think of a single example of cultural appropriation that isn't simultaneously praise of the culture being stolen from. So where's the butt-hurt?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If I had to choose between those three extreme positions, I would likely side with those being openly offensive. I don't want censorship, and I want people to be called out on their BS rather than be afraid to offend them with the truth. Let the bigots use racial slurs freely, it makes them a lot easier to identify and avoid.

But that would be persecuting their religious beliefs.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I guess if you're more into what people say and not what they do, Political Correctness might be important to you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I'm a liberal. Yes, one of those, a bleeding heart liberal. Tolerance is sacred to me. Just to let people get the fuck on with whatever without judging. To me political correctness is the antithesis of liberalism. It's everything liberalism isn't. IT'S IN THE FUCKING NAME! I personally make an effort not to offend people. Because I'm polite and well behaved. But I'm not going to police others on their use of words. Nor unfriend people who I think uses offensive words. To me that's also to be polite and well behaved. It's the opinion that matters. Not which words are used.

My impression is that political correctness is often white people competing about who is the most tolerant and end up becoming the one thing they're trying not to be... namely fascists. Here's Louis CK explaining what the problem is and how political correctness works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

In Sweden right now there's controversy about the artist Makode Linde who is setting up a show in Stockholm's flashiest and most central art venue. He's calling the show "Negerkungens återkomst" which is Swedish for "Return of the Nigger King". What makes this special is that this is a government owned building. Politics matter. The will of the people and such.

This has led to a debate in various media channels where the director of Kulturhuset (the venue) is telling Makode that it's not acceptable and that he has to change the name. Makode's response was "So a white guy (the director) is telling a black guy (the artist) to stop being racist against blacks. He just doesn't get it. This is just political correctness out of control. He seems to be under the impression that art is a democratic process. It isn't. I'm going to call it whatever I like".

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

I think that when you have speech, it's going to have some extremes. That doesn't just apply to things outside your political group it's also an in-group phenomenon. So, will you tolerate other liberals telling people they shouldn't do X? That's their free speech, isn't it? You also have free speech to argue back and in this very specific case mentioned in the op to talk about what the political or artistic value of the title means. Perhaps the title is in reference to himself and perhaps it's a political statement such as "Oh come all you White Swedes to see me, the spectacle around here. I am only accepted as a spectacle, not in your homes as part of your families. You have to get all dressed up and pretentious to come see me." As an artist he also doesn't have to deconstruct or explain his own art. He may feel that doing so violates his artistic integrity. His choice but it might not be convincing.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm a liberal. Yes, one of those, a bleeding heart liberal. Tolerance is sacred to me. Just to let people get the fuck on with whatever without judging. To me political correctness is the antithesis of liberalism. It's everything liberalism isn't. IT'S IN THE FUCKING NAME! I personally make an effort not to offend people. Because I'm polite and well behaved. But I'm not going to police others on their use of words. Nor unfriend people who I think uses offensive words. To me that's also to be polite and well behaved. It's the opinion that matters. Not which words are used.

My impression is that political correctness is often white people competing about who is the most tolerant and end up becoming the one thing they're trying not to be... namely fascists. Here's Louis CK explaining what the problem is and how political correctness works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

In Sweden right now there's controversy about the artist Makode Linde who is setting up a show in Stockholm's flashiest and most central art venue. He's calling the show "Negerkungens återkomst" which is Swedish for "Return of the Nigger King". What makes this special is that this is a government owned building. Politics matter. The will of the people and such.

This has led to a debate in various media channels where the director of Kulturhuset (the venue) is telling Makode that it's not acceptable and that he has to change the name. Makode's response was "So a white guy (the director) is telling a black guy (the artist) to stop being racist against blacks. He just doesn't get it. This is just political correctness out of control. He seems to be under the impression that art is a democratic process. It isn't. I'm going to call it whatever I like".

So this is a question to liberals. Do you think political correctness is out of control? I don't really care what conservatives or racists think because it's not news. This is a question for the liberal club.

I think that when you have speech, it's going to have some extremes. That doesn't just apply to things outside your political group it's also an in-group phenomenon. So, will you tolerate other liberals telling people they shouldn't do X? That's their free speech, isn't it? You also have free speech to argue back and in this very specific case mentioned in the op to talk about what the political or artistic value of the title means. Perhaps the title is in reference to himself and perhaps it's a political statement such as "Oh come all you White Swedes to see me, the spectacle around here. I am only accepted as a spectacle, not in your homes as part of your families. You have to get all dressed up and pretentious to come see me." As an artist he also doesn't have to deconstruct or explain his own art. He may feel that doing so violates his artistic integrity. His choice but it might not be convincing.

Much of PC amounts to disguised statements or arguments for self acceptance, on the part of the speaker obviously.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

This is the guy who made the blackface cake a few years back.

He explained his work then like this

Afromantics’ is Makode Linde’s line of artworks that use the blackface figure that has now become so infamous. The name, he says, reflects on the romanticized, supposedly positive stereotype of the happy, grinning ‘pickaninny’ (a caricature of black children) that appears on all the artworks, and is meant to show the connection between those stereotypes and the more vicious ones, all connected in the same system of oppression.

Each Afromantic is based on taking an item from Eurocentric art or popular culture and painting stereotypical blackface on top of it. “The outlines, the specific features of the faces of these items are completely obscured,” Makode Linde says, “their character is completely removed, and they have this new, supposedly ‘African’ character imposed on them.” It’s an almost painfully symbolic reproduction of the process of Othering, diverse individuals being forcibly assigned a simplistic shared identity.

http://africasacountry.com/2012/04/africa-is-a-country-interview-with-makode-linde/

 

[credoconsolans]

PC = polite and considerate.

The hijacking of the acronym is very similar to the hijacking of the word 'feminist'.

Those who oppose the concepts are always quick to spin the words and make them something they're not so as to use the words to dismiss and trivialize the ideas behind the words.

 

[ronburgundy]

"Political Correctness" is a term with no objective definition.

.

No term has an objective definition. Words are strings of squiggly line and/or sounds that at best come to have a commonly but never universally shared meaning, and even then that shared meaning changes over time.

 

[Bronzeage]

Railing against political correctness is the last refuge of the asshole.

It's not politically correct to say that Mexico sends its rapists and thieves to the US, but it is an asshole thing to say. Instead of apologizing when such assholery is pointed out, the asshole will claim political correctness is trying to muzzle him.

Other like minded assholes will agree with him and post anti-political correctness memes on facebook.

Part of the problem with the concept of political correctness is the inability of some people to feel insulted. If someone were to refer to me by some negative racial epithet for a middle aged white man, I would simply wait for them to make their point, because whatever slur they concoct, has no effect on me. Even though that is exactly the kind of person one would expect to shoot up a Planned Parenthood office, I'm immune to suspicion, until I actually pull the trigger.

 

[ronburgundy]

PC = polite and considerate.

The hijacking of the acronym is very similar to the hijacking of the word 'feminist'.

Those who oppose the concepts are always quick to spin the words and make them something they're not so as to use the words to dismiss and trivialize the ideas behind the words.

Hey pot meet kettle. Your "polite and considerate" is actually the modern "hijacking" of PC, which has been used to refer to "politically correct" since the 1940's.

In the early-to-mid 20th century, the phrase "politically correct" was associated with the dogmatic application of Stalinist doctrine, debated between Communist Party members and Socialists. This usage referred to the Communist party line, which provided for "correct" positions on many matters of politics....
The term "politically correct" was used disparagingly, to refer to someone whose loyalty to the CP line overrode compassion, and led to bad politics. It was used by Socialists against Communists, and was meant to separate out Socialists who believed in egalitarian moral ideas from dogmatic Communists who would advocate and defend party positions regardless of their moral substance.

IOW, it meant 75 years ago what it means now, which is left-wing authoritarians dogmatically trying to coerce and control others to keep in line with a blindly applied ideology that was divorced from reasonable consideration of actual ethics.

Granted, conservatives use the term to mindlessly defend all racism, sexism, and other immoral acts that according to their Bible-based worldview are not immoral, because the Bible is as pro racism, sexism, and generally intolerant as books come. IOW, conservatives who are morally and scientifically incorrect, try to deflect criticism of this incorrectness by claiming such critique is merely politically correct.

However, just like its original use by Socialists against dogmatic Communists, many real liberals and people who generally align themselves with the cause for real social justice, equality, and liberty use the term appropriately to disparage mindless leftists who constantly try to invent so-called injustices where none really exist. Often, PC stances are not merely devoid of a legitimate moral stance, they actually seek to cover up scientifically correct facts out of a misplaced concern that they make people feel bad. Attacks on the terms "handicapped" and "disabled" are good examples of this. It isn't the word but the objective reality the word refers to that is the source of unpleasantness, because no one wants to have basic tasks made more difficult by such limitations.

In sum, "politically correct" is meant to highlight that the stance is neither morally nor scientifically correct, and only correct according to an unreasoned, dogmatic political ideology.