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Star Wars episode 7 coming out soon

I basically know a lot about the movie from spoliers and discussions. It seems like they plot points all almost all parallels to the first movie, but Rey for example has a super compressed learning curve to be a badass and it took a lot of people out of the movie. Would it have been better to have the same amount of training time needed as Luke but switch the plot around quite a bit?
 
I basically know a lot about the movie from spoliers and discussions. It seems like they plot points all almost all parallels to the first movie, but Rey for example has a super compressed learning curve to be a badass and it took a lot of people out of the movie. Would it have been better to have the same amount of training time needed as Luke but switch the plot around quite a bit?

But they also made strong implications that her memory of her life before Jakku is very hazy, so she may have had quite a bit of Jedi training and can't consciously recall it. Her ability to use the Force so well seems to be a plot point they'll be developing.
 
I basically know a lot about the movie from spoliers and discussions. It seems like they plot points all almost all parallels to the first movie, but Rey for example has a super compressed learning curve to be a badass and it took a lot of people out of the movie. Would it have been better to have the same amount of training time needed as Luke but switch the plot around quite a bit?

I actually didn't mind Rey's accelerated learning curve. She has a couple episodes where she got a sort of baptism by fire, as they call it. In many ways, Kylo is the one who actually teaches her how to use the force, because he keeps subjecting her to it. She only learns how to do the Jedi mind trick after Kylo tries to read her mind, and she only learns how to move objects with the force after Kylo uses it to freeze her in place then toss her against a tree. Kylo keeps bombarding her with the force, and that is where she learns what it feels like and how to use it.
 
I basically know a lot about the movie from spoliers and discussions. It seems like they plot points all almost all parallels to the first movie, but Rey for example has a super compressed learning curve to be a badass and it took a lot of people out of the movie. Would it have been better to have the same amount of training time needed as Luke but switch the plot around quite a bit?

But they also made strong implications that her memory of her life before Jakku is very hazy, so she may have had quite a bit of Jedi training and can't consciously recall it. Her ability to use the Force so well seems to be a plot point they'll be developing.

So it may have a back story later explained that has a touch of "The Long Kiss Goodnight" like when Geena Davis well full-on assassin after being a housewife with amnesia?
 
I basically know a lot about the movie from spoliers and discussions. It seems like they plot points all almost all parallels to the first movie, but Rey for example has a super compressed learning curve to be a badass and it took a lot of people out of the movie. Would it have been better to have the same amount of training time needed as Luke but switch the plot around quite a bit?

I actually didn't mind Rey's accelerated learning curve. She has a couple episodes where she got a sort of baptism by fire, as they call it. In many ways, Kylo is the one who actually teaches her how to use the force, because he keeps subjecting her to it. She only learns how to do the Jedi mind trick after Kylo tries to read her mind, and she only learns how to move objects with the force after Kylo uses it to freeze her in place then toss her against a tree. Kylo keeps bombarding her with the force, and that is where she learns what it feels like and how to use it.

I hope that's not the case. It would have way too much of a Phantom Menacy "He was born from the midochlorians" type of vibe for me. With Luke and Darth Hologram providing training for young Jedi and Sith, it's saying that using the Force is a skill which requires training. Rey being some kind of Jedi savant who can pick it up just by watching others seriously undercuts that. She's already a super-engineer who can speak more languages than C3PO, and having her be the Jedi Rain Man as well would be too Mary Sue-ish for my liking.

For instance, when she has the flashbacks in Mox's basement, the explanation of "She's just so in tune with the Force that being around Luke's lightsaber gives her visions of its past" or the like would be a worse storyline for me than "Being around her father's lightsaber unlocked repressed memories". I really hope that the upcoming movies go with something closer to the latter than to the former.
 
I actually didn't mind Rey's accelerated learning curve. She has a couple episodes where she got a sort of baptism by fire, as they call it. In many ways, Kylo is the one who actually teaches her how to use the force, because he keeps subjecting her to it. She only learns how to do the Jedi mind trick after Kylo tries to read her mind, and she only learns how to move objects with the force after Kylo uses it to freeze her in place then toss her against a tree. Kylo keeps bombarding her with the force, and that is where she learns what it feels like and how to use it.

I hope that's not the case. It would have way too much of a Phantom Menacy "He was born from the midochlorians" type of vibe for me. With Luke and Darth Hologram providing training for young Jedi and Sith, it's saying that using the Force is a skill which requires training. Rey being some kind of Jedi savant who can pick it up just by watching others seriously undercuts that. She's already a super-engineer who can speak more languages than C3PO, and having her be the Jedi Rain Man as well would be too Mary Sue-ish for my liking.

For instance, when she has the flashbacks in Mox's basement, the explanation of "She's just so in tune with the Force that being around Luke's lightsaber gives her visions of its past" or the like would be a worse storyline for me than "Being around her father's lightsaber unlocked repressed memories". I really hope that the upcoming movies go with something closer to the latter than to the former.

It's not just that she watches others use the force. It's that she has it used against her. That's something Luke didn't have. Besides, the amount of training to move objects isn't too high. Luke does it in the Wampa cave, and nobody ever told him how. And, as I said, the Jedi mind trick was perfectly positioned in the story line after Kylo trying to read her mind.

As for Luke's lightsaber, that whole episode harkens back to Luke's training on Dagobah. There are certain objects, relics, and places in the universe where the force's influence is even more powerful. For some odd reason, the jungles of Dagobah had this influence, which is probably why Yoda was there. Luke's isn't just any lightsaber. It's the lightsaber that defeated Darth Vader, bringing back Anakin, and by extension bringing back balance to the force.

Chances are Luke himself went back to search for the Jedi temples in hopes of finding such a relic or place. Now, why did he leave his lightsaber behind? That I don't know. He might have anticipated Rey, he might not have.

In any case, I think that within the Star Wars universe, we don't need any special backstory for Rey's prowess with the force. They did, of course, leave a big question mark about her family, so they very well might go with something you suggested. I just don't think they need too. But that's a good thing, isn't it. It leaves the writers with lots of room to work with.
 
It would still just make her vastly overpowered as compared to everyone else in the universe and have her abilities be a poorly written plot device. The idea that her and Kylo Ren were evenly matched because they're both half-trained apprentices as opposed to the training that he got being meaningless because it wasn't enough to beat her "natural talent" or whatever is a better storyline and the latter would come across as weakly done to me.

They have given Rey all of these abilities. She's a super pilot, a super engineer, she speaks every known language, etc, and then there's her Force abilities ontop of that. They need to explain how she's able to do all of these things. If she grew up receiving Jedi training, that all makes sense. If they're all just some sort of natual talents, that's way to close to "The midichlorians made him the Chosen One, so he can out-podrace everyone and build C-3PO from scrap parts as a child". It would make her storyline as badly written as Anakin Skywalker's. Given how far out of their way they went to distance this trilogy from the prequels, they're not about to go and rehash the same mistakes they made with that one's main characer with the new one.

Now, that's not to say that they're not doing that because they have established that having Jedi potential gives you these advantages and they have had scenes where untrained people like Luke can somewhat manipulate the Force without training. I just really hope that they're not taking the story in that direction and that they have a better plot in mind.
 
Rey really doesn't accomplish much with the Force in this movie other than the mind trick. I got the idea that she had heard of all the legends surrounding the Jedi and what they could do, and being told by Han that it was all true was the first part of her awakening (which is why Kylo and Snoke both feel it at that point). I used to think it was absurd that she could take on Kylo Ren, but then I saw the movie a second time and thought about why he wears that mask. There's nothing wrong with his face and his breathing is fine. He wears it to intimidate others, which he has to do because he's not a sith lord or a master user of the Force, but a bully who got into his grandpa's weapon closet. He has no nuance or grace, just flash. Nobody ever really challenged him at his own game before, so he never had to square off against another Force user. This allows Rey to catch him off guard in a major way, which combined with his wound from Chewie's bowcaster (the same one that sent stormtroopers flying around like ragdolls) explains why he was bested by Rey in their first lightsaber duel.
 
Rey really doesn't accomplish much with the Force in this movie other than the mind trick. I got the idea that she had heard of all the legends surrounding the Jedi and what they could do, and being told by Han that it was all true was the first part of her awakening (which is why Kylo and Snoke both feel it at that point). I used to think it was absurd that she could take on Kylo Ren, but then I saw the movie a second time and thought about why he wears that mask. There's nothing wrong with his face and his breathing is fine. He wears it to intimidate others, which he has to do because he's not a sith lord or a master user of the Force, but a bully who got into his grandpa's weapon closet. He has no nuance or grace, just flash. Nobody ever really challenged him at his own game before, so he never had to square off against another Force user. This allows Rey to catch him off guard in a major way, which combined with his wound from Chewie's bowcaster (the same one that sent stormtroopers flying around like ragdolls) explains why he was bested by Rey in their first lightsaber duel.

Yes, it's all perfectly explainable without her having had any previous training. I just think that this storyline would suck. Even with his injuries and half-finished training, Kylo Ren was kicking her ass and she was basically just running from him until she closes her eyes and surrenders herself to the Force and that was when she turned things around and cut him down. If that was a "well, why don't I just try this?" moment as opposed to a "I'm remembering parts of my training" moment, it would be dumb. I want a story about a Jedi and not a story about a Mary Sue who has whatever random abilities or talents the plot requires her to have during that given minute.
 
It would still just make her vastly overpowered as compared to everyone else in the universe and have her abilities be a poorly written plot device. The idea that her and Kylo Ren were evenly matched because they're both half-trained apprentices as opposed to the training that he got being meaningless because it wasn't enough to beat her "natural talent" or whatever is a better storyline and the latter would come across as weakly done to me.

They have given Rey all of these abilities. She's a super pilot, a super engineer, she speaks every known language, etc, and then there's her Force abilities ontop of that. They need to explain how she's able to do all of these things. If she grew up receiving Jedi training, that all makes sense. If they're all just some sort of natual talents, that's way to close to "The midichlorians made him the Chosen One, so he can out-podrace everyone and build C-3PO from scrap parts as a child". It would make her storyline as badly written as Anakin Skywalker's. Given how far out of their way they went to distance this trilogy from the prequels, they're not about to go and rehash the same mistakes they made with that one's main characer with the new one.

Now, that's not to say that they're not doing that because they have established that having Jedi potential gives you these advantages and they have had scenes where untrained people like Luke can somewhat manipulate the Force without training. I just really hope that they're not taking the story in that direction and that they have a better plot in mind.

You see, I would actually be more satisfied with the ironic twist that Kylo ended up teaching her how to tap into the force. Plus her anger at Han dying, and Finn going down.

I would hate it if she ended being Kylo's sister. Enough with the family ties already! I don't even want her being Luke's daughter. I think I would be content if Luke, during his travels, came across her and gave her some training at a very early age. Perhaps Luke was even the cause of her family being captured when the first order went after him, or something like that. I'd be OK with that. I just can't stand all the family ties.
 
It would still just make her vastly overpowered as compared to everyone else in the universe and have her abilities be a poorly written plot device. The idea that her and Kylo Ren were evenly matched because they're both half-trained apprentices as opposed to the training that he got being meaningless because it wasn't enough to beat her "natural talent" or whatever is a better storyline and the latter would come across as weakly done to me.

They have given Rey all of these abilities. She's a super pilot, a super engineer, she speaks every known language, etc, and then there's her Force abilities ontop of that. They need to explain how she's able to do all of these things. If she grew up receiving Jedi training, that all makes sense. If they're all just some sort of natual talents, that's way to close to "The midichlorians made him the Chosen One, so he can out-podrace everyone and build C-3PO from scrap parts as a child". It would make her storyline as badly written as Anakin Skywalker's. Given how far out of their way they went to distance this trilogy from the prequels, they're not about to go and rehash the same mistakes they made with that one's main characer with the new one.

Now, that's not to say that they're not doing that because they have established that having Jedi potential gives you these advantages and they have had scenes where untrained people like Luke can somewhat manipulate the Force without training. I just really hope that they're not taking the story in that direction and that they have a better plot in mind.

You see, I would actually be more satisfied with the ironic twist that Kylo ended up teaching her how to tap into the force. Plus her anger at Han dying, and Finn going down.

I would hate it if she ended being Kylo's sister. Enough with the family ties already! I don't even want her being Luke's daughter. I think I would be content if Luke, during his travels, came across her and gave her some training at a very early age. Perhaps Luke was even the cause of her family being captured when the first order went after him, or something like that. I'd be OK with that. I just can't stand all the family ties.

Same here. And obviously she's not Kylo's sister, that makes no sense at all given how everybody acts. I'd like to think that Rey is nobody in particular, just someone who was perhaps in the vicinity of Luke's efforts to "train the next generation" of Jedi at the time, and whose family may have been involved in something that took place there with the Knights of Ren.
 
You see, I would actually be more satisfied with the ironic twist that Kylo ended up teaching her how to tap into the force. Plus her anger at Han dying, and Finn going down.

But she didn't use her anger. She went all zen and overcame all her anger and fear and that's what allowed her to turn the fight around and win. That was a Jedi move and it just being a random guess of what she should be doing would be weak.

I would hate it if she ended being Kylo's sister. Enough with the family ties already! I don't even want her being Luke's daughter. I think I would be content if Luke, during his travels, came across her and gave her some training at a very early age. Perhaps Luke was even the cause of her family being captured when the first order went after him, or something like that. I'd be OK with that. I just can't stand all the family ties.

Ya, it is getting kind of old. I think you're going to be disappointed, though, because Disney's been saying for the past couple of years that this trilogy is about the next generation of Skywalkers and I doubt that they meant that one of the bad guys is the kid of that other Skywalker when they were saying that.
 
The shock reveal of "I am your father" really is only going to work once. After that, everyone is now expecting it, or some close family relationship.

The only interest is what relation she is to him. There's not that many likely ones to choose from: daughter, niece, ???

Get on with the story, and please no more Death Stars.
 
I finally got out to see it last night. It was very entertaining, but also an almost scene for scene rehash of A New Hope. Having practically worshiped A New Hope for over 30 years, it was nice to see that it could actually be improved upon by a competent director. I was afraid that I would have trouble following the action, given that it was directed by JJ Abrams, but that fear turned out to be unfounded. I could tell what was happening in every action scene, and man were there a lot of action scenes. The movie did not slow down until the very end, and I was so immersed that I could have easily sat there watching it for another hour.

A few things jumped out at me. Throughout the previews I was wondering how they were going to reconcile Finn being black and a Stormtrooper, given that the prequels tell us that Stormtroopers are all clones of Jango Fett. The explanation that Finn was taken from his family at a very young age (so young that he does not remember his name) worked out well for me, as I can now imagine that they are ignoring the prequel series almost entirely, and going with the original story line where Stormtroopers were NOT clones. Of course there are other possibilities, but this is the one I prefer to embrace unless and until they explain things more thoroughly in the upcoming movies. Feeding into this is also the attitude nearly everyone seems to have regarding the Jedi; that they are a myth. Jedi were so ubiquitous in the prequels that it would be hard to imagine that less than two generations later most people don't believe they ever existed. The only thing letting me down in this regard is Rey's nearly savant like ability with tech and piloting being a clear parallel to Annakin in Ep1.

Speaking of Rey, it has been debated a bit in this thread as to who her parents are. It won't be Han and Leia, as they would have revealed this when they met her, given their obvious concern with their son. That leaves us with Luke being her father, it is the simplest explanation as to why she is almost exactly like young Annakin, and some of her power awakening also mirrors Luke's early learning in The Empire Strikes Back before he meets Yoda. Also, her parents gave her into the care of someone else at a young age on a desert planet just like happened with Luke as a child. They seemed to have made a bad choice as to exactly who they gave her to, but this is a JJ Abrams film, so the thing that matters is that she was raised as an orphan on a desert planet. About as subtle as a 10 pound sledghammer to the skull with that one, JJ!

Now the interesting thing is Finn's ability to use the lightsaber. It may be more of an EU thing, but I think it is well established that only those who can use the force can use a lightsaber. Lightsabers operate using a crystal that focuses the force power of the person wielding them. Otherwise, everybody would be running around with a lightsaber, including that one stormtrooper who had some other kind of baton weapon on his arm when he fought Finn. Why use one of those if you can use an actual lightsaber, which is clearly superior? So, it seems that Finn can use the force as well, but it is highly doubtful that he is related to Han, Leia, Luke or Annakin. To me, this points to Kylo and Rey being Annakin's grandchildren, and Finn being a wildcard. If this series is as much about a family of force users as Disney is making it out to be, you don't need two of the three main characters having nothing to do with that family (if Poe is intended to be a main character throughout the series as well, that would make 3 out of 4, and that is just inconceivable).

The one big disappointment for me was the newer, bigger Death Star. Really? You couldn't think of anything else other than another Death Star? The First Order seems to be a pale imitation of the Empire, yet they are able to build a Death Star the size of a planet. I can't believe someone didn't step up at some point during the production and put a stop to that one. "Hey guys, the previous Death Stars proved to be the most colossal blunders of the Empire, and directly caused their downfall, why the hell would their successor want to build a third one? Anybody, anybody?"

Now, for the one thing I want to happen in the next movie. I think it would be absolutely awesome if, when we finally get to see Snoke in person, he is a little guy the size of Yoda, who has just been trying to fool everyone with his giant sized holograms.
 
Now the interesting thing is Finn's ability to use the lightsaber. It may be more of an EU thing, but I think it is well established that only those who can use the force can use a lightsaber. Lightsabers operate using a crystal that focuses the force power of the person wielding them. Otherwise, everybody would be running around with a lightsaber

Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut open the dead Taunton's belly on Hoth. Luke was unconscious at the time, so he couldn't have been channel his Force ability through Han or anything like that.
 
A few things jumped out at me. Throughout the previews I was wondering how they were going to reconcile Finn being black and a Stormtrooper, given that the prequels tell us that Stormtroopers are all clones of Jango Fett. The explanation that Finn was taken from his family at a very young age (so young that he does not remember his name) worked out well for me, as I can now imagine that they are ignoring the prequel series almost entirely, and going with the original story line where Stormtroopers were NOT clones. Of course there are other possibilities, but this is the one I prefer to embrace unless and until they explain things more thoroughly in the upcoming movies.

I don't remember the exact dialogue, but didn't one character say something to the effect of "maybe we should go back to using clones"?
 
Now the interesting thing is Finn's ability to use the lightsaber. It may be more of an EU thing, but I think it is well established that only those who can use the force can use a lightsaber. Lightsabers operate using a crystal that focuses the force power of the person wielding them. Otherwise, everybody would be running around with a lightsaber

Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut open the dead Taunton's belly on Hoth. Luke was unconscious at the time, so he couldn't have been channel his Force ability through Han or anything like that.

You are correct, I had forgotten about that one. Of course, it is plausible that Han also has a connection to the Force that only expressed itself in that one critical situation. No one else was there to witness it, as Luke was unconscious, so no one was able to say "WTF, Han, how did you do that?" Okay, it is all straight in my head again now, Ep1-3 never happened. Now, so long as no one bursts the bubble on my clones theory...

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A few things jumped out at me. Throughout the previews I was wondering how they were going to reconcile Finn being black and a Stormtrooper, given that the prequels tell us that Stormtroopers are all clones of Jango Fett. The explanation that Finn was taken from his family at a very young age (so young that he does not remember his name) worked out well for me, as I can now imagine that they are ignoring the prequel series almost entirely, and going with the original story line where Stormtroopers were NOT clones. Of course there are other possibilities, but this is the one I prefer to embrace unless and until they explain things more thoroughly in the upcoming movies.

I don't remember the exact dialogue, but didn't one character say something to the effect of "maybe we should go back to using clones"?

Dammit, Shadowy Man! Why did you have to go there? I missed that line though, so I can safely dismiss it as your own Ep1-3 fanboi fever dream (at least until I go to see the movie again on Saturday).
 
Now the interesting thing is Finn's ability to use the lightsaber. It may be more of an EU thing, but I think it is well established that only those who can use the force can use a lightsaber. Lightsabers operate using a crystal that focuses the force power of the person wielding them. Otherwise, everybody would be running around with a lightsaber

Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut open the dead Taunton's belly on Hoth. Luke was unconscious at the time, so he couldn't have been channel his Force ability through Han or anything like that.

Han used it to cut open a dead tauntaun. That's a little different from using a lightsaber against a trained force user in combat.
 
Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut open the dead Taunton's belly on Hoth. Luke was unconscious at the time, so he couldn't have been channel his Force ability through Han or anything like that.

Han used it to cut open a dead tauntaun. That's a little different from using a lightsaber against a trained force user in combat.

Given that I am having such an exciting and productive day at work today, I did some Googling, and learned how lightsabers really work. Apparently I had done some misreading of the EU material in my youth, and came away with a flawed understanding on the subject. The crystals in the lightsaber focus the energy from a diatom power cell, not from the Force flowing from the user. This article was very informative for me, but other sources corroborate the informatition contained therein:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber3.htm

This still doesn't explain why only Jedi and Sith seem to use them in the Star Wars universe, though.
 
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