The Cowardice of the Conservative.

[AthenaAwakened]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:

Right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia has crept up upon us, and the left has been completely useless throughout this whole development, obsessing over their "microagressions", "the patriarchy", "white privilege", calling people racists and bigots and Islamophobes who don't pass their purity tests, rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. They are unwilling to challenge right-wing authoritarian ideology when it comes from the Muslim community but are hypersensitive to the point of aggravating annoyance to any hint of it from the right in the dominant culture, which means pretty much the only voice anyone hears challenging right-wing Islamist theocracy ideology is from the nutty, bigoted authoritarian right.

The left has also vastly underestimated people's right-wing inclinations to have pride in one's own culture and nation and the irrational fears of these being destroyed or fundamentally changed in some perceived fashion. They sneer at the very idea rather than attempt to channel these feelings into something positive that satisfies the inclination in a non-xenophobic, non-racist, non-bigoted direction.

I've also noticed a sharp rise in pro right-wing authoritarian comments throughout various internet sites, such as YouTube and news sites. The problem is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, along with Islamist terrorism. The world is just at the earliest stages of these developments.

For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

Now what?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge. So what will our lovers of liberty do to stem the tide and make this a world safe for right thinking people to live in?

I say, not a damn thing.

If they were going to do something, they would be doing it now instead of demanding the group supposedly in opposition clean up a mess that conservatives made and continue to make even unto this day. You see, lovers of liberty, fascism is the RIGHT'S right flank. These people are conservative's crazy cousins and their problem to solve, but they won't do it. they can't do it. Because to do it would mean facing what is the logical and probably lethal end result of individualism, nationalism, and exceptionalism taken to its logical and extreme conclusion. Gone would be the euphemisms and genteelisms that shield pseudo-patriots and pontificating practitioners of pretension from what they really believe. Conservative thought offers not the profound but the perfunctory, the parochial, the pedestrian and the profane. Dogma dressed as discernment, bigotry bedecked as brilliance, cowardice couched in caution, all contrivances to circumvent the cognitive dissidence bound to occur when people who profess they fight for freedom in a mighty nation have to realize they flinch and freeze in fear on a plantation.

Take the blue pill Neo, and go back to sleep in the Quarter.

The red pill of the runaway and the rebellious ain't for the faint of heart.

 

[Underseer]

Racists never get tired of that "white people are the real victims" argument, do they?

 

[Valjean]

All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

As the demographic opposing authoritarianism, why not support the leftists?
Why are Isamist aurhoritarians singled out, when it's the American right bent on sacrificing freedom for the security of a police state?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge.

The right and righteous right are the authoritarian scourge.

 

[Tigers!]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:

Right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia has crept up upon us, and the left has been completely useless throughout this whole development, obsessing over their "microagressions", "the patriarchy", "white privilege", calling people racists and bigots and Islamophobes who don't pass their purity tests, rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. They are unwilling to challenge right-wing authoritarian ideology when it comes from the Muslim community but are hypersensitive to the point of aggravating annoyance to any hint of it from the right in the dominant culture, which means pretty much the only voice anyone hears challenging right-wing Islamist theocracy ideology is from the nutty, bigoted authoritarian right.

The left has also vastly underestimated people's right-wing inclinations to have pride in one's own culture and nation and the irrational fears of these being destroyed or fundamentally changed in some perceived fashion. They sneer at the very idea rather than attempt to channel these feelings into something positive that satisfies the inclination in a non-xenophobic, non-racist, non-bigoted direction.

I've also noticed a sharp rise in pro right-wing authoritarian comments throughout various internet sites, such as YouTube and news sites. The problem is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, along with Islamist terrorism. The world is just at the earliest stages of these developments.

For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

Now what?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge. So what will our lovers of liberty do to stem the tide and make this a world safe for right thinking people to live in?

I say, not a damn thing.

If they were going to do something, they would be doing it now instead of demanding the group supposedly in opposition clean up a mess that conservatives made and continue to make even unto this day. You see, lovers of liberty, fascism is the RIGHT'S right flank. These people are conservative's crazy cousins and their problem to solve, but they won't do it. they can't do it. Because to do it would mean facing what is the logical and probably lethal end result of individualism, nationalism, and exceptionalism taken to its logical and extreme conclusion. Gone would be the euphemisms and genteelisms that shield pseudo-patriots and pontificating practitioners of pretension from what they really believe. Conservative thought offers not the profound but the perfunctory, the parochial, the pedestrian and the profane. Dogma dressed as discernment, bigotry bedecked as brilliance, cowardice couched in caution, all contrivances to circumvent the cognitive dissidence bound to occur when people who profess they fight for freedom in a mighty nation have to realize they flinch and freeze in fear on a plantation.

Take the blue pill Neo, and go back to sleep in the Quarter.

The red pill of the runaway and the rebellious ain't for the faint of heart.

Are you equating conservative with right-wing? (I suspect you are but I want clarity).

 

[Canard DuJour]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:

Right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia has crept up upon us, and the left has been completely useless throughout this whole development, obsessing over their "microagressions", "the patriarchy", "white privilege", calling people racists and bigots and Islamophobes who don't pass their purity tests, rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. They are unwilling to challenge right-wing authoritarian ideology when it comes from the Muslim community but are hypersensitive to the point of aggravating annoyance to any hint of it from the right in the dominant culture, which means pretty much the only voice anyone hears challenging right-wing Islamist theocracy ideology is from the nutty, bigoted authoritarian right.

The left has also vastly underestimated people's right-wing inclinations to have pride in one's own culture and nation and the irrational fears of these being destroyed or fundamentally changed in some perceived fashion. They sneer at the very idea rather than attempt to channel these feelings into something positive that satisfies the inclination in a non-xenophobic, non-racist, non-bigoted direction.

I've also noticed a sharp rise in pro right-wing authoritarian comments throughout various internet sites, such as YouTube and news sites. The problem is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, along with Islamist terrorism. The world is just at the earliest stages of these developments.

For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

Now what?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge. So what will our lovers of liberty do to stem the tide and make this a world safe for right thinking people to live in?

I say, not a damn thing.

Or worse. What the authoritarian right wants is to walk blindly into the trap the radical Islamists are baiting.

It's already illegal to bomb and shoot other citizens, beat your sister for dating the wrong guy, etc - whether by Muslims, white supremacists or whoever. We don't need to make it doube-illegal for Muslims. We (including the left) already condemn these things and don't need to condemn every law-abiding Muslim by extension, any more than we need to assume every male is a rapist. If our laws aren't impartial, why should anyone they discriminate against observe them? Then the Islamists can say "There! See? One law for them and another for Muslims." And they'd be right.

 

[Underseer]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:



For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

Now what?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge. So what will our lovers of liberty do to stem the tide and make this a world safe for right thinking people to live in?

I say, not a damn thing.

Or worse. What the authoritarian right wants is to walk blindly into the trap the radical Islamists are baiting.

It's already illegal to bomb and shoot other citizens, beat your sister for dating the wrong guy, etc - whether by Muslims, white supremacists or whoever. We don't need to make it doube-illegal for Muslims. We (including the left) already condemn these things and don't need to condemn every law-abiding Muslim by extension, any more than we need to assume every male is a rapist. If our laws aren't impartial, why should anyone they discriminate against observe them? Then the Islamists can say "There! See? One law for them and another for Muslims." And they'd be right.

OMGosh, you're a Muslim apologist! You are trying to willingly submit to Islam!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]

 

[AthenaAwakened]

As the demographic opposing authoritarianism, why not support the leftists?
Why are Isamist aurhoritarians singled out, when it's the American right bent on sacrificing freedom for the security of a police state?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge.

The right and righteous right are the authoritarian scourge.

This thread isn't about the Left. This thread is about the RIGHT and rightists taking responsibility for doing something about the evil on the Right.

Some Rightists have, and not without some justification, taken a stance that there is some difference between themselves and rightwing authoritarians. This may well be true, but if it is it is a difference in degree and not kind. Which is why those same rightists will never do jack-shit about their more extreme cousins and will pontificate and kibitz from the sidelines about why the Left won't do something about the Right's mess.

 

[iolo]

Racists never get tired of that "white people are the real victims" argument, do they?

Think of those poor concentration camp guards, everyone hating them!

 

[untermensche]

The only antidote to authoritarianism is democracy.

Those that speak out against democracy speak for authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is a rejection of democratic rule.

I don't expect those who speak out against democracy to care much about increases in authoritarian rule.

 

[JonA]

The only antidote to authoritarianism is democracy.

Those that speak out against democracy speak for authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is a rejection of democratic rule.

I don't expect those who speak out against democracy to care much about increases in authoritarian rule.

You said the same incorrect thing four different ways.

You were wrong all four times.

If there was truth behind any one of those four, it was not obvious.

And so I can't really conclude that you were right in any of those four tellings of that same story.

 

[ronburgundy]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:

Right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia has crept up upon us, and the left has been completely useless throughout this whole development, obsessing over their "microagressions", "the patriarchy", "white privilege", calling people racists and bigots and Islamophobes who don't pass their purity tests, rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. They are unwilling to challenge right-wing authoritarian ideology when it comes from the Muslim community but are hypersensitive to the point of aggravating annoyance to any hint of it from the right in the dominant culture, which means pretty much the only voice anyone hears challenging right-wing Islamist theocracy ideology is from the nutty, bigoted authoritarian right.

The left has also vastly underestimated people's right-wing inclinations to have pride in one's own culture and nation and the irrational fears of these being destroyed or fundamentally changed in some perceived fashion. They sneer at the very idea rather than attempt to channel these feelings into something positive that satisfies the inclination in a non-xenophobic, non-racist, non-bigoted direction.

I've also noticed a sharp rise in pro right-wing authoritarian comments throughout various internet sites, such as YouTube and news sites. The problem is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, along with Islamist terrorism. The world is just at the earliest stages of these developments.

For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

The underlined portion of your interpretation is in no way implied by the quote you cite, and yet the entire rest of your OP rest completely on that part of your strawman.

The implication is NOT for the left to disappear and leave conservatives to reel in their crazy cousins to the right, but rather for liberals to reel in their crazy cousins to their left and to redirect the focus of the opposition to right-wing authoritarianism to actually opposing authoritarianism rather than promoting its own own variant of authoritarianism and irrational bias, attempting to "correct" the unfair outcomes favored by the right with counter-measures that similarly disregard procedural fairness, basic liberties, and reasoned approaches to complex problems.

US liberals are ceding control over the opposition against the right to leftists with little regard for the core values of liberalism that make it the opposite from right wing authoritarianism, not just in transitory outcomes but in the cpre principles that shape the procedural fairness by which those outcomes occur.

The reason it is sensible to target the liberals for criticism is that they are the only hope for opposing right wing extremism, and they are not merely failing at that but fueling it by abandoning the principles that are most in opposition to those of the right, which include principles of free speech, presumed innocence under the law, fair procedures that focus only on the facts of a particular case rather than presumptions based on group membership, and willingness to accept relevant fact and science even when you find it unpleasant.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:



For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

The underlined portion of your interpretation is in no way implied by the quote you cite,

Didn't say it was. Oh, I forget, hyperbole and sarcasm are not your strong suits.

and yet the entire rest of your OP rest completely on that part of your strawman.

It is only a strawman if I then attack it. Where have I attacked the Left?

Oh, that's no where.

The implication is NOT for the left to disappear and leave conservatives to reel in their crazy cousins to the right, but rather for liberals to reel in their crazy cousins to their left and to redirect the focus of the opposition to right-wing authoritarianism to actually opposing authoritarianism rather than promoting its own own variant of authoritarianism and irrational bias, attempting to "correct" the unfair outcomes favored by the right with counter-measures that similarly disregard procedural fairness, basic liberties, and reasoned approaches to complex problems.

US liberals are ceding control over the opposition against the right to leftists with little regard for the core values of liberalism that make it the opposite from right wing authoritarianism, not just in transitory outcomes but in the cpre principles that shape the procedural fairness by which those outcomes occur.

The reason it is sensible to target the liberals for criticism is that they are the only hope for opposing right wing extremism, and they are not merely failing at that but fueling it by abandoning the principles that are most in opposition to those of the right, which include principles of free speech, presumed innocence under the law, fair procedures that focus only on the facts of a particular case rather than presumptions based on group membership, and willingness to accept relevant fact and science even when you find it unpleasant.

Thank you proving my point.

I linked to a thread that is already covering your points.

I was told there to start my own thread if i wanted to critique Rightists.

So I did,

And what happens?

You show up and try move the other thread over here by playing off a piece of a hyperbolic sentence and ignoring the actual body of the post.

Again, thank you for proving my point.

 

[untermensche]

The only antidote to authoritarianism is democracy.

Those that speak out against democracy speak for authoritarianism.

Authoritarianism is a rejection of democratic rule.

I don't expect those who speak out against democracy to care much about increases in authoritarian rule.

You said the same incorrect thing four different ways.

You were wrong all four times.

If there was truth behind any one of those four, it was not obvious.

And so I can't really conclude that you were right in any of those four tellings of that same story.

It is obvious.

Take any group. The direction it takes can be decided by a few dictators or decided by democratic decisions, the opinions of the majority.

Give me another way.

 

[JonA]

You said the same incorrect thing four different ways.

You were wrong all four times.

If there was truth behind any one of those four, it was not obvious.

And so I can't really conclude that you were right in any of those four tellings of that same story.

It is obvious.

Take any group. The direction it takes can be decided by a few dictators or decided by democratic decisions, the opinions of the majority.

Give me another way.

An authoritarian will vote for an authoritarian.

A majority of authoritarians voting will elect an authoritarian.

Source: First grade math class.

 

[prideandfall]

US liberals are ceding control over the opposition against the right to leftists with little regard for the core values of liberalism that make it the opposite from right wing authoritarianism, not just in transitory outcomes but in the cpre principles that shape the procedural fairness by which those outcomes occur.

except for the fact that in the most classic way possible, you are making both an enormous factual error as well as a "moore/coulter" logical fallacy that is demonstrably nothing more than a collective hallucination of the right.

"US liberals" aren't ceding jack shit, because unlike "US conservatives" the nuttier and far-out ideological extremes are in absolutely no way represented by the political establishment which caters to "the left".
the Democratic establishment isn't rabidly pro abortion, isn't remotely interested in outlawing (or even restricting) guns, loves jesus, and doesn't even have a notable segment of its operational body that even acknowledges (much less supports) members of the "fringe" element of the ideological left.

unlike "US conservatives" who have incorporated fringe elements into the fold of their main political body, and who are actually trying to institute via government absurd radical ideological ideas, this whole lambasting you're attempting to heap on "US liberals" seems like a seriously misguided projection of the political failings of your own ideological leanings.

you can whine and cry into your pancakes all day long about those mean ole' SJWs trying to stop people from drunk raping women or being adorably idiotic in wanting college to be about safely learning things, but the Democrats aren't embracing that as a message or a political platform so you can't in any way peg fringe opinions on the left side of the spectrum as being to blame for shifts or changes in left wing political management.
the inverse of course is disastrously not true, as evidenced by the fact that the Republican party for the last 20 years has acted like nothing more than a business-boner jesus oligarchy, not only embracing their fringe elements but attempting to codify their every political whim into actual law.

 

[Valjean]

Are you equating conservative with right-wing? (I suspect you are but I want clarity).

I am. I think there's a great deal of overlap, especially among today's conservatives.

 

[Tigers!]

This thread isn't about the Left. This thread is about the RIGHT and rightists taking responsibility for doing something about the evil on the Right.

Some Rightists have, and not without some justification, taken a stance that there is some difference between themselves and rightwing authoritarians.

Nice of your to acknowledge that not all 'rightists' are the same. But you ruin it with this

This may well be true, but if it is it is a difference in degree and not kind. Which is why those same rightists will never do jack-shit about their more extreme cousins and will pontificate and kibitz from the sidelines about why the Left won't do something about the Right's mess.

You have already decided that no matter what 'rightists' may or may not do you will reject it because it is from a 'rightist'. They are to be condemned immediately for anything they do or do not say or for anything they do or do not do.

Bit hard to have a discussion when you have prejudged and already condemned those who might differ from your good self.

 

[Tigers!]

Are you equating conservative with right-wing? (I suspect you are but I want clarity).

I am. I think there's a great deal of overlap, especially among today's conservatives.

Conservatism is not just on the 'right'. The 'left' is also subject to it.
Do like this post from Dystopian

Uh, no, conservatives are *not* right wing by definition. A conservative (in terms of politics) is defined as someone who believes in the preservation of existing conditions, institutions, laws; or to restore traditional ones; and to limit change. This means that a conservative could be either right-wing, left-wing, or somewhere in between. However, because the term/ideology emerged during a time when being a conservative meant opposing changes that were sought by the left, we have come to associate the right wing with conservatism; and that understanding has become so pervasive that; at least in certain cultures; the term is irrevocably linked to right wing ideology. However, speaking as a matter of base definition, there's no reason why a conservative has to be right wing.

Edmund Burke would be proud and it rather nicely encapsulates my thinking. Just wish I'd written it.

Conservatism is not an end point. It is a way to tackle the journey.

 

[JonA]

In a thread (This one to be precise) you will find this:

Right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia has crept up upon us, and the left has been completely useless throughout this whole development, obsessing over their "microagressions", "the patriarchy", "white privilege", calling people racists and bigots and Islamophobes who don't pass their purity tests, rearranging the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks. They are unwilling to challenge right-wing authoritarian ideology when it comes from the Muslim community but are hypersensitive to the point of aggravating annoyance to any hint of it from the right in the dominant culture, which means pretty much the only voice anyone hears challenging right-wing Islamist theocracy ideology is from the nutty, bigoted authoritarian right.

The left has also vastly underestimated people's right-wing inclinations to have pride in one's own culture and nation and the irrational fears of these being destroyed or fundamentally changed in some perceived fashion. They sneer at the very idea rather than attempt to channel these feelings into something positive that satisfies the inclination in a non-xenophobic, non-racist, non-bigoted direction.

I've also noticed a sharp rise in pro right-wing authoritarian comments throughout various internet sites, such as YouTube and news sites. The problem is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, along with Islamist terrorism. The world is just at the earliest stages of these developments.

For the sake of argument let us just say that what passes for the "left" in western democracies has all these things wrong with it. Its member are weak, wrongly focused, if focused at all, and without righteousness or even the right to exist. All leftists should stoned and the corpses left for carrion to feed the vultures.

Now what?

The right and righteous "Right" is now all that is left to take on the right-wing authoritarian scourge. So what will our lovers of liberty do to stem the tide and make this a world safe for right thinking people to live in?

I say, not a damn thing.

If they were going to do something, they would be doing it now instead of demanding the group supposedly in opposition clean up a mess that conservatives made and continue to make even unto this day. You see, lovers of liberty, fascism is the RIGHT'S right flank. These people are conservative's crazy cousins and their problem to solve, but they won't do it. they can't do it. Because to do it would mean facing what is the logical and probably lethal end result of individualism, nationalism, and exceptionalism taken to its logical and extreme conclusion. Gone would be the euphemisms and genteelisms that shield pseudo-patriots and pontificating practitioners of pretension from what they really believe. Conservative thought offers not the profound but the perfunctory, the parochial, the pedestrian and the profane. Dogma dressed as discernment, bigotry bedecked as brilliance, cowardice couched in caution, all contrivances to circumvent the cognitive dissidence bound to occur when people who profess they fight for freedom in a mighty nation have to realize they flinch and freeze in fear on a plantation.

Take the blue pill Neo, and go back to sleep in the Quarter.

The red pill of the runaway and the rebellious ain't for the faint of heart.

Are you looking for a discussion; or just making a post to state a particular opinion?

 

[Achwienichtig]

I am. I think there's a great deal of overlap, especially among today's conservatives.

Conservatism is not just on the 'right'. The 'left' is also subject to it.
Do like this post from Dystopian

Uh, no, conservatives are *not* right wing by definition. A conservative (in terms of politics) is defined as someone who believes in the preservation of existing conditions, institutions, laws; or to restore traditional ones; and to limit change. This means that a conservative could be either right-wing, left-wing, or somewhere in between. However, because the term/ideology emerged during a time when being a conservative meant opposing changes that were sought by the left, we have come to associate the right wing with conservatism; and that understanding has become so pervasive that; at least in certain cultures; the term is irrevocably linked to right wing ideology. However, speaking as a matter of base definition, there's no reason why a conservative has to be right wing.

Edmund Burke would be proud and it rather nicely encapsulates my thinking. Just wish I'd written it.

Conservatism is not an end point. It is a way to tackle the journey.

As somebody who identifies with Burkean conservatism, I would agree with this. That said, the current "conservatism" running amuck in the U.S. congress is not Burkean.