Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

[tupac chopra]

delete

 

[tupac chopra]

Oh, so the people who fired the missile are not responsible in any way for what the missile did. They are innocents. They did nothing wrong.

Really?

They are 10% responsible, 90% is on ukrainian government

The US government is to blame as well....(though you can't say that or people get hysterical). They
1.Sponsored the coup.
2.Encouraged Poroshenko to keep killing rather than have a ceasefire.
3.God knows what else, they are very sneaky.

 

[tupac chopra]

.Barring major surprises we already know what happened. \.

It's always good to form your conclusion before investigation has happened. It helps cement the contempt of science.

 

[bilby]

.Barring major surprises we already know what happened. \.

It's always good to form your conclusion before investigation has happened. It helps cement the contempt of science.

You would know.

In your very last post you assigned blame, unequivocally, to a government on the opposite side of the planet from the shooting down of the aircraft. The rumbling sound you just heard was the noise made by every irony meter on the planet crying out in anguish, and then being suddenly silenced.

 

[dystopian]

You know, the more I read comments from the likes of Tupac and Barbos; the more I'm starting to support the reckless and idiotic Dutch politicians here who are saying to hell with the obstructionism from the rebels and russians and that we should send in special forces to secure the crash-site and bodies. So I guess if the intent of your posts are to turn people *even more* against the side you've chosen to defend; congratulations.

 

[tupac chopra]

You know, the more I read comments from the likes of Tupac and Barbos; the more I'm starting to support the reckless and idiotic Dutch politicians here who are saying to hell with the obstructionism from the rebels and russians and that we should send in special forces to secure the crash-site and bodies. .

Warmongering? Who would have thought?
Of course you want someone else to do, or someone else kids.
That's it; send someone else or someone else's kid's in to be brutalised both physically and psychologically. Maybe they will commit suicide like so many soldiers do today.
Do you realise what you are even saying?
Why, pray tell, aren't you volunteering? Why are you insisting it is others and not you that should go? Will you maybe break a nail if you have to do the dirty work? Maybe your hair will get messed up?

 

[dystopian]

Warmongering? Who would have thought?
Of course you want someone else to do, or someone else kids.
That's it; send someone else or someone else's kid's in to be brutalised both physically and psychologically. Maybe they will commit suicide like so many soldiers do today.
Do you realise what you are even saying?
Why, pray tell, aren't you volunteering? Why are you insisting it is others and not you that should go? Will you maybe break a nail if you have to do the dirty work? Maybe your hair will get messed up?

Oh fuck off and learn how to parse someone's posts.

 

[tupac chopra]

Warmongering? Who would have thought?
Of course you want someone else to do, or someone else kids.
That's it; send someone else or someone else's kid's in to be brutalised both physically and psychologically. Maybe they will commit suicide like so many soldiers do today.
Do you realise what you are even saying?
Why, pray tell, aren't you volunteering? Why are you insisting it is others and not you that should go? Will you maybe break a nail if you have to do the dirty work? Maybe your hair will get messed up?

Oh fuck off and learn how to parse someone's posts.

No. You go in there. You think war is such fun.
You think soldiers find it's fun to go and fight? Have you ever had to do it? Have you ever been in a warzone?
We will give you a gun and a uniform, and a dummy.

 

[dx713]

Oh fuck off and learn how to parse someone's posts.

No. You go in there. You think war is such fun.
You think soldiers find it's fun to go and fight? Have you ever had to do it? Have you ever been in a warzone?
We will give you a gun and a uniform, and a dummy.

So, explain us something.
Why is it so reprehensible when dystopian merely hint at it, while you're fighting tooth and nails for Putin's right to do it on a grand scale?

 

[dystopian]

Oh fuck off and learn how to parse someone's posts.

No. You go in there. You think war is such fun.
You think soldiers find it's fun to go and fight? Have you ever had to do it? Have you ever been in a warzone?
We will give you a gun and a uniform, and a dummy.

No, again: Learn how to fucking parse someone's posts; because at no point have I said anything remotely close to saying I actually want war, nor that I think it's fun (in fact, I explicitly called the politicians who call for sending in special forces stupid and reckless, which should reveal my actual position to anyone capable of comprehensive reading) . What I've said is that the disgusting way in which *some* people are saying things like how the people who actually pulled the trigger are only 10% responsible for the deaths of nearly 200 of my countrymen (and in the process are themselves defending the ACTUAL warmongers here) is making me more sympathetic to the view of those who say we should've sent in our forces the moment the plane went down. If Putin thinks it okay to annex the Crimea by claiming he's only doing it to defend Russian citizens; then surely we have the right to send in our forces to do *nothing more* than secure the bodies and wreckage when our countrymen are mass-murdered by the people *you* defend.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The US government is to blame as well....(though you can't say that or people get hysterical). They
1.Sponsored the coup.
2.Encouraged Poroshenko to keep killing rather than have a ceasefire.
3.God knows what else, they are very sneaky.

Three's interesting. I didn't know you could do that. Just accuse people and for your evidence add another vague accusation to support the first one.
Marcia should have tried that in prosecuting OJ. "He's killed Nicole, he's killed Ronald, and he's probably guilty of some other stuff, so send him to jail."

Oh, wait. No, the defense staked out that tactic, claiming that the LAPD was evil and sneaky and did God knows what else in the investigation....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The US government is to blame as well....(though you can't say that or people get hysterical). They
1.Sponsored the coup.
2.Encouraged Poroshenko to keep killing rather than have a ceasefire.
3.God knows what else, they are very sneaky.

Three's interesting. I didn't know you could do that. Just accuse people and for your evidence add another vague accusation to support the first one.
Marcia should have tried that in prosecuting OJ. "He's killed Nicole, he's killed Ronald, and he's probably guilty of some other stuff, so send him to jail."

Oh, wait. No, the defense staked out that tactic, claiming that the LAPD was evil and sneaky and did God knows what else in the investigation....

Wait, are you saying Poroshenko killed Nicole?

Oh, so the people who fired the missile are not responsible in any way for what the missile did. They are innocents. They did nothing wrong.

Really?

They are 10% responsible, 90% is on ukrainian government

Hey baby. Why do make me so made that I have to hit you?

 

[barbos]

Well, russians say 9 Ukrainian Buk radars were turned ON at the time of the disaster in the area.
and one SU-25 was within 4 km from the B777 during hit.
Maybe there is a good explanation for radar activity, I don't know.

 

[barbos]

And video showing "russian" Buk being transported is a forgery.
Because it was determined it was shot in the town which has been under ukrainian army control since May 11.

 

[dystopian]

And video showing "russian" Buk being transported is a forgery.
Because it was determined it was shot in the town which has been under ukrainian army control since May 11.

Determined? Determined by who? I'm calling bullshit. There isn't even a 'single' video of it being transported, but several; along with photographs. At least one of the photos as well as a video have been succesfully geolocated to Torez; you could do this yourself with freaking google maps and a bit of patience; so any claim that the video is a forgery at this point is pretty much bullshit. More pro-russian propaganda. I'm pretty sure that you're just parroting whatever some propaganda site is telling you without doing even the slightest bit of independent verification. You don't have to, after all; just so long as you spread obfuscation and doubt you're doing your job.

In fact; I'm 100% certain that you're getting it straight from the Russians, because the ONLY mention anywhere I've been able to find about it supposedly being a forgery and taken in an Ukraine occupied town is straight from a Russian Defense Ministry official claiming the images were manipulated and were taken in Krasnoarmeisk instead; this despite the fact that independent journalists have been able to geolocate some of the images and footage to Torez and Shizne; which isn't all that hard to do. For example;

this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiI9s-zWLs4&feature=youtu.be was filmed here in Shizne, just east of Torez: http://old.wikimapia.org/#lat=48.0125557&lon=38.7632632&z=17&l=0&m=b - you can easily identify the buildings in it.

Then there's this photo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs2NS0aCAAA1YQN.jpg which was clearly taken here: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=48.024068&lon=38.614524&z=19&m=b - in Torez. Once again, you can easily identify the buildings in it.

You have zero basis to claim any of this was forged; and are just parroting what the Russians are saying. Maybe *one* of the videos circulating really was taken in Krasnoarmeisk, but that doesn't change the fact that there's *other* videos and photographs of a buk in rebel controlled territory; and *exactly* where we'd expect the buk to be that shot the plane.

I expect you will either ignore this post entirely; ignore the facts in it; simply repeat the obfuscation the Russians/rebels are putting out as if it hasn't just been demolished; or stick your fingers in your proverbial ears and spout some more baseless assertions in the hopes that something will stick. That is what I expect. What I *demand*, however; as a matter of both logic *and* honor, is an admission from you that what you said simply isn't true and that indeed some of the images are from rebel controlled territory. Man up and admit that you were wrong.

 

[barbos]

yes, this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqExJUI-io
It is 100% forgery. Basically they took their own Buk and made a video of it.
Probably CIA people suggested it, the same ones who forged evidence of WMD in Iraq and russian forces near Ukrainian border.

geolocate? LOL, you really serious, aren't you?

Yes I am parroting Russian Media, I have never been to Krasnoarmeisk, but I see no point in lying about it being forged. I don't really say it means much, just that one of the video ukrainians offered was a forgery.

personally I am more interested in knowing why ukrainian Buk Radars were ON..

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You know, the more I read comments from the likes of Tupac and Barbos; the more I'm starting to support the reckless and idiotic Dutch politicians here who are saying to hell with the obstructionism from the rebels and russians and that we should send in special forces to secure the crash-site and bodies. So I guess if the intent of your posts are to turn people *even more* against the side you've chosen to defend; congratulations.

Why do people even make irony meters? They always break!

 

[barbos]

You know, the more I read comments from the likes of Tupac and Barbos; the more I'm starting to support the reckless and idiotic Dutch politicians here who are saying to hell with the obstructionism from the rebels and russians and that we should send in special forces to secure the crash-site and bodies. So I guess if the intent of your posts are to turn people *even more* against the side you've chosen to defend; congratulations.

It never crosses you mind that you are being lied to?
They (what you call terrorists) finished with a search and sending bodies to Kharkov.

 

[barbos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiI9s-zWLs4&feature=youtu.be
is no good, that could be Buk or that could be something else, I can't really tell.

Again, I do believe rebels had Buk, and most likely used it. But I am starting to think that it might be more complicated and ukrainians are lying.

 

[Sabine Grant]

You know, the more I read comments from the likes of Tupac and Barbos; the more I'm starting to support the reckless and idiotic Dutch politicians here who are saying to hell with the obstructionism from the rebels and russians and that we should send in special forces to secure the crash-site and bodies. So I guess if the intent of your posts are to turn people *even more* against the side you've chosen to defend; congratulations.

It never crosses you mind that you are being lied to?
They (what you call terrorists) finished with a search and sending bodies to Kharkov.

Barbos, this is the testimony of observers on location regarding the moving of bodies from the crash site (as well as the removal of items from the crash site) :

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/19/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/

Donetsk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Nobody knows how many bodies from the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash have been moved, where they were taken or exactly who moved them, the spokesman for a group of international observers told CNN on Saturday.
Michael Bociurkiw of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe told "Erin Burnett OutFront" the group went to the crash site in a remote section of eastern Ukraine on Saturday and saw men moving an unknown number of body bags.
It's hard to get reliable information because several groups of pro-Russian separatists -- some of them masked -- control the area, he said. "But there doesn't seem to be one commander in charge."

The above coming from the team of international observers ON LOCATION.


Where do you get this information from?

They (what you call terrorists) finished with a search and sending bodies to Kharkov

Further, are this "they" part of an officially designated team of forensic experts and investigators specialized in collecting and analyzing plane debris on a crash site?

Further why a persistent limitation to how much time this international team of monitors from the OSCE (as well as access) can spend, limitation imposed by the Separatists on location?