What's the fuss about recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital?

[Jayjay]

Jerusalem has been capital of the modern State of Israel since its inception. It is only since 1980 . There was no excuse not to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital or to move the embassies there. Even today, why not move embassies to West Jerusalem? The reason is simple: Palestinians do not want to share Jerusalem either.

Even if you don't accept East Jerusalem, there is still West Jerusalem. So why not move your embassy there?

When Israel says that its capital is West Jerusalem, and that East belongs to Palestinians, then it would be fair to respect it and move the embassies (not that there is a rule that embassies have to be in the capital, but it'd be a nice gesture). As for Palestinian delusions, the location of foreign embassies or consulates for Palestine should likewise be in Ramallah, but at least Palestinians kind of recognize the 1967 borders when it comes to East Jerusalem and would be happy to settle for halfsies.

The reality is that only West Jerusalem is part of Israel, and East Jerusalem is under military occupation. It's Israel's failure to recognize that reality.

Actually East Jerusalem has a status distinct from the West Bank. I very much doubt any Israeli government would give it up. Time for Palestinians to acknowledge the fact that Ramallah is probably the best capital they can get. Or maybe newly built Al Quds, if they go with my expanded Gaza/Sinai idea.

If Palestinians can move the Al Quds mosque brick-by-brick, then Israel can do the same with the wailing wall or whatever other properties they want to keep in East Jerusalem. Just move them to the west side of the town, and problem is solved. This would be a much smaller undertaking than moving the entire population of West Bank to Sinai.

 

[sharon45]

Once again Americans prove to be the stupidest humans on earth. They are not only the most blood thirsty and criminal.

The price of freedom.

 

[steve_bank]

So you are saying Israel has a right to continually violate human rights in it's apartheid state?
Because others do it?

No, I am saying that if what is now Israel became an Arab/Muslim dominated state, it would start to resemble other such states that do not uphold human rights of anyone, much less everyone.

Israel is treating its Arab citizens much better than any of the Arab states.

I doubt many Arabs left Israel for other places in the region. That being said, in the 90s Israel acknowledged institution economic and social bias against Arabs. Perhaps not as bad as Jim Crow, but bias none the less.

Israel is a racists state. It is difficult to get citizenship without being Jewish by birth, or a conversion accepted by a recognized religious court.
You can look at it the conext of the Holocaust and ethnic survival, but srill racist.

 

[steve_bank]

The fuss is first about no Arab right of return to their property which was occupied by Israelis after the first war of independence.

That so-called "right of return" for grandchildren and great-grandchildren of 1948 refugees would mean the end of the State of Israel due to demographics and everybody involved knows that.

It is documented by the UN.

And as we all know, UN is completely unbiased when it comes to Israel.

When Israel defined the initial borders Arabs inside Israel and their descendants were given citizenship/ If Arabs were allowed back in a state with free elections Jews would eventually lose power and back to square one. Israel aggressively recruits Jews to immigrate, and the West Bank is a place for them to go.

 

[steve_bank]

Once again Americans prove to be the stupidest humans on earth. They are not only the most blood thirsty and criminal.

The price of freedom.

I am feeling too good about American can somebody please hand me a crown of thorns?

 

[steve_bank]

In Netanyahu's own word, the expansion is based on mandate from god.

Do you have a citation?

Near the end of the Obama years under pressure on settlements he finaly declared without evasion Isreal by right of ancient history would expand as it so fit. After which Kerry said publically the peace process was dead.

For years Netanyahu danced around it while the position was clear.

Netanyahu and Trump making statements about a negotiated Jerusalem it is all political theater. There is no way in hell Netanyahu will ever allow permanent sharing of Jerusalem as a capital.

Not all Israelis are Zionists, Netanyahu is. He made a political bargain with the religious right to get and keep power.

 

[Arctish]

The important thing is to respect and uphold the human rights of everyone within its borders.

Which Muslim/Arab-dominated state does that today?

Tu Quoque fallacy spotted.

 

[Trausti]

The important thing is to respect and uphold the human rights of everyone within its borders.

Which Muslim/Arab-dominated state does that today?

Tu Quoque fallacy spotted.

So true. It's not reasonable to hold Muslim/Arab countries up to the same standards imposed on Israel. They're Muslims and Arabs, after all.

 

[Juma]

Once again Americans prove to be the stupidest humans on earth. They are not only the most blood thirsty and criminal.

The price of freedom.

Fuck no. It is not some price paid for being free.
Do you think that exact the same couldnt happen in any non free government?

It happened due to the oeopke of US is non-free in so many ways.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

Is the whole thing really just symbolic? Jerusalem - Tel Aviv -- what does it really matter?

The important thing is to respect and uphold the human rights of everyone within its borders.

Which Muslim/Arab-dominated state does that today?

Which Muslim/Arab-dominated state does that today?

Tu Quoque fallacy spotted.

So true. It's not reasonable to hold Muslim/Arab countries up to the same standards imposed on Israel. They're Muslims and Arabs, after all.

That sums it up: We must expect more of Israel, not recognize their capital (Jerusalem), etc., because Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians are inferior and Jews/Israelis are superior, and from those who are superior more is expected. While those who are inferior have to be pandered to and pitied for the miserable subhumans they are.

Or, as I said at the beginning:

• Palestinians are inferior or subhuman and so must be pandered to, no matter what, because they are driven by emotion and hate, like an angry mob which understands only symbolism, and so cannot be reasoned with.

• Israelis are superior and so can be expected to humor the Palestinians, because those with understanding must give in to the angry mindless mob.

The above logic is not necessarily wrong, i.e., not 100% -- maybe it's 50% correct.

The reason to not recognize Jerusalem is that the whole thing is really only symbolic, and thus not something that really matters, and symbolism is more important to those who are inferior and can't think critically. So go ahead and do what the mindless Palestinians demand, for the symbolism (e.g., to deter them from going on a rampage), while the Israelis really understand that it's all only symbolic.

There is a case to be made for this view.

 

[Jokodo]

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

History lesson:

Original partition: Jerusalem entirely to Israel.<snip>

A glaring factual error in your first statement. The UN partition plan called for Jerusalem to maintain a special status as an internationally administered zone, neither under Jewish nor Arab administration.

Why would you expect people to take you serious when you can't be bothered to read up on publicly available basic facts?

 

[untermensche]

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

History lesson:

Original partition: Jerusalem entirely to Israel.<snip>

A glaring factual error in your first statement. The UN partition plan called for Jerusalem to maintain a special status as an internationally administered zone, neither under Jewish nor Arab administration.

Why would you expect people to take you serious when you can't be bothered to read up on publicly available basic facts?

He has no honor, no sense of right and wrong.

He defends decades of brutal treatment and theft. Defends non-stop oppression.

Do you think stupid facts matter to such as that?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It would not mean the end of the State of Israel. It would mean the end of the unassailable Jewish majority; Jews would still be the majority population but no by much, and any successful political parties would have to work with Christian and Muslim Israelis in order to govern. In time it might mean that Israel's character would be secular instead of Jewish.

It would be hardline Islamic, not secular. The Jews would be ethnically cleansed. (That's assuming Russia didn't blow it down to bedrock to destroy the nuclear arsenal that would have fallen into the hands of the terrorists.)

How about this instead: the UN pays off Egypt to allow Jewish immigrants settle in the Sinai and the Palestinians stay in their homes. That way, the only people moving into a new home are the ones who already want to resettle.

The ones moving into new homes would be the Jews who had the strange notion of wanting to stay alive.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So what? The name isn't important. They can call it Bob for all I care. The important thing is to respect and uphold the human rights of everyone within its borders.

So Jews aren't people?

Because your plan calls for their death, not their human rights.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel is regularly kidnapping and torturing and killing Palestinians.

Arresting != kidnapping.

It denies Palestinians free contact with the world.

Ever hear of the internet? Plenty of contact.

And Palestinians are free to come and go--it's just their passage through Israel that's restricted. Palestinian lands aren't enclaves, they all have other borders.

A great deal of the land occupied by Jews in Jerusalem was stolen.

"East Jerusalem" is the portion that was stolen by the Arabs and recaptured by Israel.

It is a brutal repressive ugly nation.

While it's not exactly a shining star it's still vastly above everyone around it.

And the whole world except for some Americans can see it.

Most of the world is quite antisemitic. An awful lot of it would be happy with Holocaust II.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

History lesson:

Original partition: Jerusalem entirely to Israel.<snip>

A glaring factual error in your first statement. The UN partition plan called for Jerusalem to maintain a special status as an internationally administered zone, neither under Jewish nor Arab administration.

Why would you expect people to take you serious when you can't be bothered to read up on publicly available basic facts?

I was talking about what actually happened. The plan was for it to be independent but the Arabs wouldn't accept that.

 

[untermensche]

Arresting != kidnapping.



Ever hear of the internet? Plenty of contact.

And Palestinians are free to come and go--it's just their passage through Israel that's restricted. Palestinian lands aren't enclaves, they all have other borders.

A great deal of the land occupied by Jews in Jerusalem was stolen.

"East Jerusalem" is the portion that was stolen by the Arabs and recaptured by Israel.

It is a brutal repressive ugly nation.

While it's not exactly a shining star it's still vastly above everyone around it.

And the whole world except for some Americans can see it.

Most of the world is quite antisemitic. An awful lot of it would be happy with Holocaust II.

Israel has been conducting it's own little private holocaust for decades.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Arresting != kidnapping.



Ever hear of the internet? Plenty of contact.

And Palestinians are free to come and go--it's just their passage through Israel that's restricted. Palestinian lands aren't enclaves, they all have other borders.



"East Jerusalem" is the portion that was stolen by the Arabs and recaptured by Israel.



While it's not exactly a shining star it's still vastly above everyone around it.

And the whole world except for some Americans can see it.

Most of the world is quite antisemitic. An awful lot of it would be happy with Holocaust II.

Israel has been conducting it's own little private holocaust for decades.

The real Holocaust greatly cut the Jewish population.

The population in Gaza and the West Bank has been growing.

 

[Ford]

Israel has been conducting it's own little private holocaust for decades.

The real Holocaust greatly cut the Jewish population.

The population in Gaza and the West Bank has been growing.

So the population in Gaza and the West Bank should be cut down.

 

[untermensche]

Israel has been conducting it's own little private holocaust for decades.

The real Holocaust greatly cut the Jewish population.

The population in Gaza and the West Bank has been growing.

Saying you are better than the Nazi's is not much of a claim.

Imagine how many more Palestinians there would be if Israel had not killed so many and oppressed so many for so long?

But of course that is one reason Israel is doing it.