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Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Depending how you see it , it was a woman (and the one who strongly tempted and persuaded her) then she persuaded Adam. The original sin is sex and not literally fruit,(some Christians believe). Sins and lusts of the flesh we inherit or is passed down, basically. The significance maybe of the fig-leaf and being ashamed.

Edit: Theres further to this fascinating study interpretation (uncovering) which is new to me, that others have studied and the gist of is: The original sin was apparently not with Adam. Hmmm Cain V Abel


John 8:44

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
 
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So original sin is perverted sex? Did Adam and Eve have perverted sex?
 
I do not remember if the words in is in the text. I was taught we are born with a stain on our soul, removed by baptism.

One way to look at it is when humans lost innocence and began corruption, lying, and so on. The concepts of hood and evil arose. They became aware as individuals.Yes I am critical of religion, we have to watch for the imposition of trligion. That being said, the RCC has always been an odd mix of reaon and rationalism, and theism. Aquinas tried to reconcile Greeks with Christianity.

To label all RCC clerics as liers and so on is not an objective view. The RCC at the top has a history of modern scandals and corruption, not just sex abuse.

From what I remember those at the bottom are usually motivated to human service. The RCC global charity does good things.

Balance and objectivity in all things. You just can't emphasize the negatives.
 
Gotta go back to the Sumerianss or at least the Babylonians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_the_gods_(Sumerian_paradise)

Fuck, this is just literature over a very long period of time. There was a pre made story that had to be retrofitted to a particular message they wanted to convey. This was not a bunch of people sitting in a room thinking, how can they fuck up people's lives for thousands of years.

Personally I like the morals and stories of the Sumerians a lot better.
 
Gnostic Christian Bishop said:
Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Christian tradition tells us that Eve was deceived by the talking serpent that some see as Satan. This makes sense as we are told that Satan is the number one deceiver of man. I see God putting Satan in Eden as God intentionally wanting to deceive Eve and that of course led to Eve making Adam sin.

Christian tradition also tells us that God chose Jesus to be sacrificed even before the earth was created.
I see choosing to punish the innocent instead of the guilty as a sin.

These two instances of God choosing to do evil and sin, I see as the Original first and second sins.

Do you?

If you do, you will likely agree that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

  1. Sin is an imaginary disease used to sell an imaginary cure. There is no sin, only moral decisions and immoral decisions.
  2. Original sin is a story in a book. If you want it to be more than that, you're going to have to prove a few things
  3. Even if we pretend that the stories are true, the serpent in the Genesis story probably isn't Satan.
  4. You have not proved that God or the talking snake were ever real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  5. You have not proved that Adam and Eve were real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  6. You have not proved that the Garden of Eden was a real place, much less that it was the setting described in Genesis

I think that's enough for now.
 
I am burned out on looking at this topic from the this way. That does not mean it a waste of time for others.

I just want to look for how it was aconstructed by cobbling concepts and story elements together and screw the current stupid interpretation.

But it is interesting and annoying that looking at this topic (Adam and Eve parallels in Sumeria) on youtube leads to almost nothing but whacked out ancient alien crap. That guy needs to be killed or something. Fuck!
 
According to the bible, God is the Author of evil. If A&E failed their so called test of obedience, it is because God made it happen.
 
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Underseer said:
Gnostic Christian Bishop said:
Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Christian tradition tells us that Eve was deceived by the talking serpent that some see as Satan. This makes sense as we are told that Satan is the number one deceiver of man. I see God putting Satan in Eden as God intentionally wanting to deceive Eve and that of course led to Eve making Adam sin.

Christian tradition also tells us that God chose Jesus to be sacrificed even before the earth was created.
I see choosing to punish the innocent instead of the guilty as a sin.

These two instances of God choosing to do evil and sin, I see as the Original first and second sins.

Do you?

If you do, you will likely agree that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

  1. Sin is an imaginary disease used to sell an imaginary cure. There is no sin, only moral decisions and immoral decisions.
  2. Original sin is a story in a book. If you want it to be more than that, you're going to have to prove a few things
  3. Even if we pretend that the stories are true, the serpent in the Genesis story probably isn't Satan.
  4. You have not proved that God or the talking snake were ever real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  5. You have not proved that Adam and Eve were real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  6. You have not proved that the Garden of Eden was a real place, much less that it was the setting described in Genesis

I think that's enough for now.
Click to expand...

In regards to #3, it's been pretty much retconned into the storyline that the serpent was Satan. Regardless of the original intent of the authors, he's now the guy who led humans down the path to the dark side.
 
Something just came to mind. After the last Indian Ocean tsunami a native was interviewed on an island. He said when he saw the water receding from the beach he membered an old island myth. Periodically god washes the world clean, and when the water recedes run for high ground, which he did.

Possible a tale part religious myth to explain tsunami devastation and part based on real events.
 
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Learner said:
Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Depending how you see it , it was a woman (and the one who strongly tempted and persuaded her) then she persuaded Adam. The original sin is sex and not literally fruit,(some Christians believe). Sins and lusts of the flesh we inherit or is passed down, basically. The significance maybe of the fig-leaf and being ashamed.

Edit: Theres further to this fascinating study interpretation (uncovering) which is new to me, that others have studied and the gist of is: The original sin was apparently not with Adam. Hmmm Cain V Abel


John 8:44

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Click to expand...

It was a tree of knowledge, not a tree of sex.

Regards
DL
 
Underseer said:
Gnostic Christian Bishop said:
Who did the Original Sin? God or man?

Christian tradition tells us that Eve was deceived by the talking serpent that some see as Satan. This makes sense as we are told that Satan is the number one deceiver of man. I see God putting Satan in Eden as God intentionally wanting to deceive Eve and that of course led to Eve making Adam sin.

Christian tradition also tells us that God chose Jesus to be sacrificed even before the earth was created.
I see choosing to punish the innocent instead of the guilty as a sin.

These two instances of God choosing to do evil and sin, I see as the Original first and second sins.

Do you?

If you do, you will likely agree that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

  1. Sin is an imaginary disease used to sell an imaginary cure. There is no sin, only moral decisions and immoral decisions.
  2. Original sin is a story in a book. If you want it to be more than that, you're going to have to prove a few things
  3. Even if we pretend that the stories are true, the serpent in the Genesis story probably isn't Satan.
  4. You have not proved that God or the talking snake were ever real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  5. You have not proved that Adam and Eve were real, much less that they did anything described in Genesis
  6. You have not proved that the Garden of Eden was a real place, much less that it was the setting described in Genesis

I think that's enough for now.
Click to expand...

I need not prove anything when asking for an evaluation of a story.

If you cannot form a moral judgement on the story, thanks for the reply.

Regards
DL

- - - Updated - - -

DBT said:
According to the bible, God is the Author of evil. If A&E failed their so called test of obedience, it is because God made it happen.
Click to expand...

That is the logical answer.

Regards
DL
 
Learner,

A&E were supposed to have sex. There was no other reason for Eve to have been created.*** Whatever pastor, reverend or whomever has given you the idea that Original Sin is sex, has led you down the primrose path of total silliness. Original Sin, as it is taught by most denoms, is that all humans, by virtue of the fact that A&E disobeyed God's enjoinder not to eat of the magical fruit, are sinners. This original act of insurrection is the Original Sin, not sex! According to most Christian teaching, we are all born with this sin nature: not the sex-drive, but the incapacity for self-directed moral perfection, meaning inside and out, in thought and deed. Hence, every human is a sinner, regardless of behavior. Even if one's behavior is exemplary, without spot, one is still a sinner with a sin nature. The most perfectly well-behaved individual is just splitting at the seams to do something naughty, and is naughty just in his/her capacity to be naughty. Also, there is no spectrum or scale of sin. A white lie is equal to cold-blooded murder. Sin is sin, and we're all stuffed to the rafters with it.

That's the story. It is pure silliness. Not that I don't think the human race is full of corruption and evil, as it most manifestly is; yet there are genuinely good people. And to call an exemplary person a sinner, when they have trespassed no law and have done only good acts, is a travesty, a devious and fallacious means for truly shitty people to feel good about themselves. As you can tell just by observing shitty people: they comfort and defend themselves by assuming that everyone is just as rotten as they are. This is how most big churches operate: they function under the assumption that everyone is infected with original sin and is in dire need of salvation. Of course, a good many church leaders are lying scum who use this as a means of obtaining and maintaining power. It was especially egregious in the times when the masses were illiterate. "Just take my word for it, it's all here in the BOOK; you're all going to be roasted forever unless you give me some of your money and unless you regard me as your personal broker between yourselves and God. And don't go believing that guy in that church over there! I saw him having a fap behind that big rock, so he can't possibly be of any help to you."

***God created Eve because he recognized that Adam needed a companion. One wonders how God wouldn't have already known that...
 
WAB said:
Learner,

A&E were supposed to have sex. There was no other reason for Eve to have been created.*** Whatever pastor, reverend or whomever has given you the idea that Original Sin is sex, has led you down the primrose path of total silliness. Original Sin, as it is taught by most denoms, is that all humans, by virtue of the fact that A&E disobeyed God's enjoinder not to eat of the magical fruit, are sinners.
Click to expand...

Sounds nice and traditional , the version taught by denoms, but is that not ..er.. silly to you either? If it is, I may agree ... especially Magical fruit . Its the way you tell em. ;)

A&E were supposed to have sex.
Click to expand...

So soon ? I would have said ...reading that they had to leave Eden all of a sudden etc.


There's quite a bit to read and post but I'll do my best (popping in and out)
 
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abaddon said:
So original sin is perverted sex? Did Adam and Eve have perverted sex?
Click to expand...


I mean't sex is not neccessarily wrong . My previous post, what I mean't and "should " have said : it "depends".

No "graphic" detail regarding Adam and Eve's encounter.
 
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