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https://www.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/751mvn/tumblr_takes_on_the_friend_zone_in_the_saltiest/
https://www.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/751mvn/tumblr_takes_on_the_friend_zone_in_the_saltiest/
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"The Friendzone" and persistence
- Thread starter Angry Floof
- Start date
DolphinDynasty
Senior Member
Soooo true tho. But neither chick nor dick understands even the most blatant boundaries. A neighbor dude wanted to know why I said it would take time and shared info before I'd consider friendship, and he kept bringing up relationship with that look of "I'll say friends but really it's cuz I want to fuck", so I spelled it out real clear it isn't going to happen, so he brought the "But why". And then more questions, then bitched at me for talking abut relations in order to answer the questions. You fucking asked why I won't fuck you or be your friend so I have to then talk about those relations.
He says then "But I'm a nice guy! Look, I've shaken your hand and spoken nicely to you". Then pulls out race when I said humans freak me out. All humans, quite clear, and he tells me "It's cuz I'm black, right? Ffs. I explained it's because he's being an ass, and assholes know no boundaries. "Ok, so it's because I'm black, then".
Smgdh. I don't care, no is no, and without that you still have no consent until it's been explicit because yes, people are morons. Chicks too don't get it when a guy says no, or when she hits or abuses him just because she tends to leave less damage then it's still wrong to do, and then they whine. Like 5 year olds. Who just got told they had dinner and dessert, so no they do not need any more no matter how much they want it. "But whhhyyy".
DolphinDynasty
Senior Member
Exactly, but everybody should learn this, not just guys. So many girls I know would also keep "trying" after a guy or to get him to do something when he either wouldn't answer or said no, flat out, and it's maddening.
When you get no answer or a no, leave it alone, no matter what it is. If something illicit or illegal occurred and they (whoever they is, individual or group) are giving you that wall or not taking clear responsibility by fixing the issue, then go to civil court.
And no, just because somebody said no to an unwanted advance, it's not okay to insult the one who rebuffed you. Just say, okay, maybe shrug, and move on. It's not like we've got a shortage of single people, or that anybody has to be attached to somebody in some way. It's not likely to kill off the species within the next 5 generations at least, and even if it did, so what?
Underseer
Contributor
I'll be honest: I find the whole concept of "friendzone" idiotic.
I only have brothers. No sisters. Consequently, I place high value on platonic friendships with women. I have certain emotional needs when it comes to platonic friendships because in the parts of me that are very emotional and don't respond to reason, platonic friends are all substitute sisters. Crossing the line between friend and lover complicates and ruins what I get out of platonic friendships.
To a degree, I get something similar from friendships with gay men.
Underseer
Contributor
Our society has this expectation that men always do the asking when it comes to initiating romantic/sexual contact.
I assume this is some kind of leftover from a more sexist time when men had to feel in control of everything. I've always thought that in a more fair society, men would ask half the time and women would ask half the time.
I wonder if stupid bullshit like this would happen less often if men had to be the ones saying "no" once in a while.
I assume this is some kind of leftover from a more sexist time when men had to feel in control of everything. I've always thought that in a more fair society, men would ask half the time and women would ask half the time.
I wonder if stupid bullshit like this would happen less often if men had to be the ones saying "no" once in a while.
There's always "but what abouts" in any controversy, but women preying on men, harassing men, abusing social power imbalance against men, etc., are not ingrained in the substrate of our culture as the reverse is.
DolphinDynasty
Senior Member
My comment does not state the reverse of anything is the only thing to happen. I simply am including, unlike most, that it isn't only guys who are assholes in relationships.
The only thing I see as ingrained into society is willful stupidity and cruelty, in all people. I don't give a fuck how much or in how many or what their gender is, was the whole point. But sure, if you're gonna ignore the other posts where I make it clear that guys seem to be taught or else assume that "no' doesn't matter as much as tricking or convincing or coercing somebody, ok you can do that.
It's not actually what I said, ever. I can't stand any of you, honestly, with good reason, don't care about gender, color, sex, hairstyle, orwhateverthefuckelsehumanswanttocomeupwith and you're just giving me one more reason to not give a fuck.
Just pointing something out for the sake of discussion. No need to take it so personally.
Wiploc
Veteran Member
Outstanding! "The Raven" was the second poem I learned, back when I was young enough that being able to recite a good poem was enough to put adults into a state of suspended astonishment.
Moved from Images that make you laugh. Carry on, if you're so inclined.
Rob
Rob
Underseer
Contributor
Dolphin, I'm sorry to pile on, but after decades of "whataboutism" tu quoque fallacies from the right (what used to be called "Moore-Coulter" around this forum) when one side clearly has it worse has made me extra sensitive to this kind of response to this kind of discussion, because whether you intend it or not, others see this as a normalization of something that should not be accepted.
Yes, there are women who pester men, but it's generally much worse in the other direction, and a lot of men around here would read your responses and think "See? Men have it exactly as bad, so there is no need for me to modify my behavior." I doubt very much that this is what you were trying to get across, but I worry that is how some people (and by "some people" I mean the kind of MRA nuts who use phrases like "female privilege") will take your statement.
To further draw a distinction, not only is it more likely to happen in the male[ent]rarr[/ent]female direction, but when it happens in the opposite direction, people will jump all over the woman and make her pay a steep social cost, whereas when men behave badly it gets dismissed with "boys will be boys" arguments as if all men are mindless rape monsters who just can't help ourselves.
It's just that the right has used this type of argument as a tactic for normalizing extremism for decades, and that kind of crap went unchallenged by all of us for far too long.
DolphinDynasty
Senior Member
Agreed, it is worse towards women and has never really been properly assessed or dealt with, this is true. In my own experience guys turn it into a hate based, or slur based, or some bait for something other than all I've done is decline, and they're not happy about it. O course not, who would be happy with rejection.
You know, I have no idea what the solution is, even now, because what would really help is so far outside the boundaries of realistic despite it being so, so easy.
Another poster mentioned it before, in that their nephew had never heard that once he was told 'no' by a girl he should drop it and leaver her alone. There was a kid in my middle school who was a bully, who had no idea he was being a bully and scaring me because in his mind my remaining quiet and changing seats was just a signal he should try harder, until I burst out crying asking him why he wouldn't leave me alone because I didn't want him near me and his face just dropped, looking all kinds of confused, like nobody had ever said that to him before.
I get it, but people are soooo intensely fragile that I fear if we don't make sure to input that we get it that guys shouldn't be harmed as a result of their causing harmed just by gender lines that stupid people drew in the sand thousands of years ago, then we'll be open to even more stupid, harmful vitriol.
Technically, I'm gender balanced, only I hardly ever bring it up because I have known for years I identify with both genders, so much so it's normal for me, so I never consider having to explain it to someone else, not that anybody ever ass and that's ok. Because gender doesn't interest me, nor color, nor facial features, nor nationality, only self sufficiency and morality. It's so god damn frustrating that to of most people I'm around, morality seems so far down the list, or that there are still assumptions, even by so called reasonable people, that fly in the face of reason and rationality so much so at times we may as well go around still solving human issues with violence.
We had yet another shooting overnight, 22 injured, at a music festival. Music festivals have people who are mellow, generally, into weed until they're too tired to stay awake, and good fried faire foods and glow sticks.
Even with the IRA still kickin' it in the UK, which has served as their domestic terrorists for decades, we still far out-way pretty much everybody else per 100,000 people since the '80s, from both citizenry mayhem and police shooting citizens to a point I now wonder if we're almost as dangerous as ISIS, I mean seriously, now looking at STATS to see if we've out=stripped them in number of mass shootings per month. But, shush, they won't take citizens assault rifles, perish the thought of limiting magazine count or modification types because the far right is correct in that it will never happen. If they wouldn't even consider it when a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds got murdered by a mass shooter, they never will, and we're all screwed over it. This goes over the heads of most, just as much as that we can only stay ahead of every game if we're altering ourselves to overtake it in some sense that is positive.
Fuck. I have no more problem dying young, as young as possible, as it takes at this point. I can control how it occurs, so that way at least bit could be said some asshat who can't hold their own emotion in check and grabs a sub-machine gun semi-automatic rifle, as loooong as they got it legally at Wal-mart, is waaaay more patriotic than me who would never raise a hand to anybody unless their own hands are around my throat and even THEN it's to claw them apart not murder them. But because I told that neighbor dude I won't fuck him, I'm a paraiah and totally earned it, because I have no 4 year degree I can't keep my head above water, and can't afford to finish my degree because my bills are too high medically and survivability wise as it is, meanwhile chicks are arguing with guys over stupid shit and vice versa.
Extremism is a norm and has been on so many topics in America it boggles my mind how so many of them just keep repeating these issues instead of cleaning their shit up. They love making shit worse instead of better, too. Find somebody who got stolen from, tell them they deserved it because that's some god punishing them for something 8 generations back one of their ancestors did, or that they earned it because they're poor and poor people are all on drugs or alcoholics and love living under bridges instead of inside apartments where it's safe.
I look t the word as full of 2 halves: it's either human developed and as long as it's not human controlled can be beneficial, or human developed and human controlled and therefore scary as fuck. Because humans are scary as fuck, but then they mean to be, every one of them, one point or another for some stupid reason or another.
Fuck, I need a worse habit than smoking now.
I don't think that there's anything particularly wrong with bitching about the friendzone. If you're attracted to someone and the feelings aren't reciprocated, that's a shitty position to be in. The problem comes with the issue of persistence and not respecting her and thinking that your attraction to her creates some sort of obligation on her part to return that attraction.
ruby sparks
Contributor
Imo this has a lot to do with both evolution and culture. Yes, it's mostly (though not exclusively) males who do it, for a variety of complex reasons. It is, unfortunately, part of the mating dance of apes and other species where males by and large compete for females.
We really should teach kids (mostly boys) not to do it. It should be taught in classes at schools, imo. To a lesser extent, we should also teach kids (mostly girls) how best to avoid it. Imo.
We really should teach kids (mostly boys) not to do it. It should be taught in classes at schools, imo. To a lesser extent, we should also teach kids (mostly girls) how best to avoid it. Imo.
DolphinDynasty
Senior Member
Yes, nothing wrong with making the stance clear that a guy wants more than friendship, even if in future, in case the girl is shy or takes a long while to consider things or is indecisive. But, and I don't where guys pick this up at, like if their friends or family are goading them or something, it's the incessant assumptions, or persistence, or following her around that floors ladies, I think.
I had a renter for a bit, who had kids staying here, 3 boys. I felt like punching a wall whenever he brought up relationships, because he had such a chauvinistic, mean way in his approach. He's say shit like: "And if she's clearly on the rag in her behavior, watch out but don't let her win", "If she says no, try a couple more times but you'll have to just shaker her off, cuz she's obviously not worth it".
Our culture, in most countries, has women pictured as some sort of mysterious or cunt-like beings, or some trophy. Girls generally say they found somebody interesting or that they like, guys say they scored or are gonna score. Girls tend to look for good listeners, and yeah some of them want liars who will make them feel good even if not telling the truth, whereas guys tend want less talk or shorter talks.
So, I think it all comes down to perception and preconceived notions born by stupid people who are often but nowhere near always, our parents and/or caregivers, teachers and elders. And sometimes it's peer/sibling pressure. My bio sister used to try and goad me into dating and/or fucking more than one guy at a time because in her mind more choices made for more potential. And as she couldn't really get or keep a pregnancy due to severe endometriosis, there was only more win for her. Problem with her is, she's a naturally gold digging, presumptive, superficial leech.
Meh, kids nowadays prolly do need formal instruction, but imagine all the right wing or crazy sheltering type parents and their reactions.
Derec
Contributor
Yeah, easy for you and others who have no trouble finding boy/girlfriends to say!
Unrequited is at least as old as walking upright. What is fairly new, is women having a lot to say about who becomes their partner. For many centuries, almost every society used long term pairings between young people as an opportunity to create alliances of pay off debts. What she wanted was not a great consideration.
This idea that she can decline a man's attention is rather novel and may take some getting used to.
For myself, ego and a high opinion of my qualities won't allow me to suffer unreciprocated feelings. If she doesn't have the wit and intelligence to understand the incredible deal she is being offered, she's not the woman for me.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
I never had a female friend. I am also skeptical such relationships exist between male and female. In my experience, straight males that are friends with females are just patiently waiting for a chance to get into the girl's panties. I had dated a couple of girls who introduced me to male friends and I could see what was going on. It's dishonest bullshit from one or both of them. Creeps.
Pretty much. Not to open the usual can of worms, but persistence in men is built into how we work. For every woman who is holding their face and shaking their head at persistent guys, there are 5 who end up marrying and having kids with them.
Even as a relatively self-aware man the drive to interact with women is really strong. It takes serious transcendence of your own inborn tendencies to not be annoying. Expecting that from men at large? Good luck.