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Pence: Americans allowed to have opinions, but should not express them

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https://shareblue.com/pence-american-opinions-ice-immigrants/amp/

So when it comes to free speech, we're not allowed the speech part, but the government will graciously not punish is for our thoughts. Gosh, I bet those Europeans are jealous of all this freedom we have!

So where are the free speech warriors? Why are they silent?

Oh.

Right.

Free speech is only important to them when it's used to defend Nazis.
 
https://shareblue.com/pence-american-opinions-ice-immigrants/amp/

So when it comes to free speech, we're not allowed the speech part, but the government will graciously not punish is for our thoughts. Gosh, I bet those Europeans are jealous of all this freedom we have!

So where are the free speech warriors? Why are they silent?

Oh.

Right.

Free speech is only important to them when it's used to defend Nazis.

Tip: "free speech" means the government can't punish people for their speech. Telling someone they should STFU does not violate their free speech rights.
 
No Borders, No Walls. Sanctuary for all.



So Mike Pence is right to demand that people stop using free speech because you found a video of a few ICE agents not stopping free speech?

- - - Updated - - -

https://shareblue.com/pence-american-opinions-ice-immigrants/amp/

So when it comes to free speech, we're not allowed the speech part, but the government will graciously not punish is for our thoughts. Gosh, I bet those Europeans are jealous of all this freedom we have!

So where are the free speech warriors? Why are they silent?

Oh.

Right.

Free speech is only important to them when it's used to defend Nazis.

Tip: "free speech" means the government can't punish people for their speech. Telling someone they should STFU does not violate their free speech rights.

Except this is someone in the government saying that people should not speak.

If you respected American values and American traditions, that would offend you.
 
https://shareblue.com/pence-american-opinions-ice-immigrants/amp/

So when it comes to free speech, we're not allowed the speech part, but the government will graciously not punish is for our thoughts. Gosh, I bet those Europeans are jealous of all this freedom we have!

So where are the free speech warriors? Why are they silent?

Oh.

Right.

Free speech is only important to them when it's used to defend Nazis.
If Mike Pence wants to taken seriously, he ought to model what he preaches.
 
So Mike Pence is right to demand that people stop using free speech because you found a video of a few ICE agents not stopping free speech?

- - - Updated - - -

Tip: "free speech" means the government can't punish people for their speech. Telling someone they should STFU does not violate their free speech rights.

Except this is someone in the government saying that people should not speak.

If you respected American values and American traditions, that would offend you.

Tip: "someone in the government" not equal "the government"
Bonus tip: criticizing someone's speech not equal punishing speech.

I hope that helps make up for you missing the free speech discussion in 5th grade social studies.
 
I wonder if Trump knows that his VP disagrees with Trump's policy of verbally attacking various governmental agencies?

Or if either of them have any notion that the POTUS and the Veep ought to at least publicly appear to support and uphold the highest ideals of these United States, rather than merely wrapping themselves in the flag where convenient?
 
https://shareblue.com/pence-american-opinions-ice-immigrants/amp/

So when it comes to free speech, we're not allowed the speech part, but the government will graciously not punish is for our thoughts. Gosh, I bet those Europeans are jealous of all this freedom we have!

So where are the free speech warriors? Why are they silent?

Oh.

Right.

Free speech is only important to them when it's used to defend Nazis.
On Friday, Mike Pence said Americans have a right to their opinions, and then immediately demanded Americans stop expressing their opinions.

“The American people have a right to their opinions,” Pence said in an address to ICE employees. “But these spurious attacks on ICE by our political leaders must stop.” - from the article

I agree, this was moronic of Pence to say. "Spurious" means false, so it seems he's saying false attacks on ICE must stop - but that doesn't excuse the thoroughly backward and obviously intolerant intent of the statements.
 
I hardly agree with Pence or Trump, but I don’t see this as any kind of attack on free speech. He’s arguing that people shouldn’t criticize ICE. OK. I disagree. He’s not arguing that people should be jailed for criticizing ICE.

Actually ICE shouldn’t be criticized. Its the leadership of this administration that is so despicable.

SLD
 
Tip: "free speech" means the government can't punish people for their speech. Telling someone they should STFU does not violate their free speech rights.

Except this is someone in the government saying that people should not speak.

If you respected American values and American traditions, that would offend you.
Do you respect those values and traditions? Does what Pence said offend you? Do you think Pence ought not to have said what he said? Even though you're an American, and according to American values and traditions we have free speech here, and Pence has every right to speak his mind same as any other American, in spite of all that, you think he ought not to have said what he said, because he's a government official?!? Is that seriously what you're arguing here? Did you even read your own link? Or did you just uncritically believe the hysterical headline and the hysterical executive summary made up by the partisan you relied on as a source?

"The American people have a right to their opinions. But these spurious attacks on ICE by our political leaders must stop."
Pence gave, as examples of these supposed “spurious attacks,” calls by some Democrats, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand, to disband the agency, feigning outrage that they are “actually openly advocating for the abolition of ICE.”​

Let me draw your attention to the fact that Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand and "our political leaders" are government officials. If Ms. Gray has any evidence to back up her accusation that "On Friday, Mike Pence said Americans have a right to their opinions, and then immediately demanded Americans stop expressing their opinions.", she did not present it in her article.

It appears Pence's position on who it's okay to tell to shut up is exactly the same as yours.
 
Serious disconnect between headlines and actual spoken verbiage.

Also, "must stop" is worth review.
 
Serious disconnect between headlines and actual spoken verbiage.

Also, "must stop" is worth review.
What? What was wrong?
Note the important difference between saying that you arent allowed to making a specified statement (which is what ”must stop” infers) and criticizing someone for making that statement.
That so many here doesnt recognize this is outright terrifying.

Fact that the asshole is vice president makes definitely the matter worse.
USA have a governement that doesnt gives a damn for free speech.
 
Pence is an idiot and he's entitled to say what he wants. I am also entitled to tell him he's a fucking idiot. As long as I don't threaten anyone personally, I am free to criticize whoever I want.

I think that Trump has said far worse things, and has been extremely critical of many government agencies, so it is extremely hypocritical for Pence to tell people that they must stop criticizing ICE, when his beloved leader has tried to convince people that the FBI, the CIA and some other governmental agencies are part of an deep state plot to take him down.

But, I don't agree that this threatens my free speech. If you want to understand what happens when a country denies its citizens free speech, just read about Egypt, for example, or a host of other countries that deny free speech to their citizens. They lock people up for years when they make any criticisms of the government. Nobody in the US has been forced to stop criticizing ICE. And, let's be honest, it's not really ICE that's the problem, it's the administration that has made ICE do the ruthless things it's been doing lately. There have been some ICE employees that have left the department due to these tactics. ICE has been around since 2003, ( I think ) and it hasn't been this cruel and insane until Trump took office. Trump is the problem, along with his sycophants.
 
Serious disconnect between headlines and actual spoken verbiage.

Also, "must stop" is worth review.
What? What was wrong?
Note the important difference between saying that you arent allowed to making a specified statement (which is what ”must stop” infers) and criticizing someone for making that statement.
That so many here doesnt recognize this is outright terrifying.

Fact that the asshole is vice president makes definitely the matter worse.
USA have a governement that doesnt gives a damn for free speech.
Allowed? His words? There's a prohibition of sorts? Or is someone making an interpretation and choosing words on his not so best behalf?
 
Pence and Trump, by their public admission, like our conservatives here, are personally afraid of foreigners. It is not easy for grown men to admit to being in the grip of such an irrational fear.

It also underscores yet again why conservatives are so congenitally unfit for leadership and why they are so bad at governing.

While it is probably therapeutic, on some level, for them to admit these fears openly, it is embarrassing for our nation. But Pence was simply stating his opinion, he wasn't threatening any action against these people.

We must learn to ignore these people and stop treating them as if they have something important to say. They don't. They traffic in fear. It is central to their worldview.

If you need some concrete actions were this all-consuming fear has produced a predictably irrational response, google "promise of citizenship for service in the military".
 
Serious disconnect between headlines and actual spoken verbiage.

Also, "must stop" is worth review.
What? What was wrong?
Note the important difference between saying that you arent allowed to making a specified statement (which is what ”must stop” infers)

I despise Pence and he is the only reason I do not hope for Trump's immediate demise, but "must stop" does not "infer" or imply someone is not legally allowed to do something. Saying they "must be stopped" or using threats of force if they don't stop would imply that. But "they must stop" implies the person is obligated to stop themselves from doing something, often where there is a claimed strong ethical (not legal) obligation for a person to stop a particular action due to its harmful consequences. Pence thinks government officials calling for abolishing a government law enforcement agency is reckless and harmful. He is wrong about that, but his comment is no more anti-free speech than when Obama said "We must speak with one voice [in opposition to Syria's actions]." By your mangling of language, Obama was saying that everyone should be forced by penalty of law to speak against the Syrian government.

Meanwhile Pence and Trump continue to actually do countless horrific and harmful things that don't get enough attention, partly because many on the the left are distracting everyone with this kind of crying wolf nonsense.
 
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Tip: "free speech" means the government can't punish people for their speech. Telling someone they should STFU does not violate their free speech rights.

Except this is someone in the government saying that people should not speak.

If you respected American values and American traditions, that would offend you.
Do you respect those values and traditions? Does what Pence said offend you? Do you think Pence ought not to have said what he said? Even though you're an American, and according to American values and traditions we have free speech here, and Pence has every right to speak his mind same as any other American, in spite of all that, you think he ought not to have said what he said, because he's a government official?!? Is that seriously what you're arguing here? Did you even read your own link? Or did you just uncritically believe the hysterical headline and the hysterical executive summary made up by the partisan you relied on as a source?

"The American people have a right to their opinions. But these spurious attacks on ICE by our political leaders must stop."
Pence gave, as examples of these supposed “spurious attacks,” calls by some Democrats, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand, to disband the agency, feigning outrage that they are “actually openly advocating for the abolition of ICE.”​

Let me draw your attention to the fact that Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand and "our political leaders" are government officials. If Ms. Gray has any evidence to back up her accusation that "On Friday, Mike Pence said Americans have a right to their opinions, and then immediately demanded Americans stop expressing their opinions.", she did not present it in her article.

It appears Pence's position on who it's okay to tell to shut up is exactly the same as yours.

Well, apparently you're just missing the special delusion that causes people to think "free speech" means politicians can't criticize other politicians for speaking.
 
Pence's statement is hypocritical. But it is not news that Pence is a hypocrite on many issues. Nor is it news that shithead conservatives will defend his hypocrisy with stupid derails.

As others have pointed out, there is no need to pay attention what these hypocritical fear-mongering asswipes say - pay attention to what they actually do and work against their nonsense.
 
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