What Do Men Think It Means To Be A Man?

[Lion IRC]

Didn't the link in the Op already answer the question?
Case closed.

Yeah. I was just leading in because I thought it was funny.

I like how you snipped off the rest of my comments. HOW RUDE.

Oh. I'm sorry. Is there a rule about snipping which I'm supposed to know about?

I didn't cut your sentence in half. I didn't create that paragraph break. I didn't quote mine you to make it seem as if you held some contrary view. My post wasn't light years away from yours - there was no loss of context.

 

[thebeave]

I'd like to see someone take on the challenge of writing out "What it Means to Be a Man" and "What it Means to Be a Woman" without relying on tired old sexist stereotypes, while also being inclusive of the cultures and lifestyles of all LGBTQ's, religions (Islam, in particular), and racial identities.

I wonder if there will be a difference between the two.

 

[Trausti]

I'd like to see someone take on the challenge of writing out "What it Means to Be a Man" and "What it Means to Be a Woman" without relying on tired old sexist stereotypes, while also being inclusive of the cultures and lifestyles of all LGBTQ's, religions (Islam, in particular), and racial identities.

I wonder if there will be a difference between the two.

5 million years of primate evolution has resulted in differences; chiefly, men are prone to take more risks and have minimal investment in their mates - women mostly being the opposite. So much of our cultural understanding of men and women comes from this.

 

[Politesse]

I'd like to see someone take on the challenge of writing out "What it Means to Be a Man" and "What it Means to Be a Woman" without relying on tired old sexist stereotypes, while also being inclusive of the cultures and lifestyles of all LGBTQ's, religions (Islam, in particular), and racial identities.

I wonder if there will be a difference between the two.

All cultures and religions? This would be utterly impossible, different cultures don't necessarily define genders in the same fashion, let alone assign complementary stereotypes. Masculinity and femininity are always contextual. But I assume the OP article knows this, since they are suggesting that it is a changing portrayal in our case.

 

[ruby sparks]

5 million years of primate evolution has resulted in differences; chiefly, men are prone to take more risks and have minimal investment in their mates - women mostly being the opposite. So much of our cultural understanding of men and women comes from this.

Interesting piece of data. Thanks for posting.

And yes, evolution does seem to have resulted in the general trends and traits you mention.

 

[Jarhyn]

There's a parallel that may be drawn here, I think:

"Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"
"Men should denounce abusers and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"

Or "priests should denounce abusers and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable".

Or "football fans should denounce racism and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"

To me, it would seem not unreasonable to ask the non-offending majority in many situations to reject and perhaps denounce the behaviour of the offending minority among them. I'm not suggesting it should be forced, but it could be encouraged, and it would do no harm and might help in many ways. Personally, I have no problem with it. I'm a man. I find the behaviour of a minority of men when it comes to sexual harassment and assault unacceptable. How hard is that to say?

This was, in fact, my argument. Minorities in communities are rightfully policed by the majority in their communities.

 

[Jarhyn]

There's a parallel that may be drawn here, I think:

"Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"
"Men should denounce abusers and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"

Cue heads exploding in 3, 2, 1...

What about any of that do you think explodes anybody's head? They're both absolutely accurate. Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and men should denounce abusers. These are both non-controversial statements.

You say both are non-controversial, yet JP has rejected both, so it's clearly not settled. But I am with you here: communities should police themselves from within. Largely because policing from outside the community always leads to attacks, and to perception of attacks

 

[Toni]

I'd like to see someone take on the challenge of writing out "What it Means to Be a Man" and "What it Means to Be a Woman" without relying on tired old sexist stereotypes, while also being inclusive of the cultures and lifestyles of all LGBTQ's, religions (Islam, in particular), and racial identities.

I wonder if there will be a difference between the two.

5 million years of primate evolution has resulted in differences; chiefly, men are prone to take more risks and have minimal investment in their mates - women mostly being the opposite. So much of our cultural understanding of men and women comes from this.

Your image does not support your statement.

The image more closely supports a statement that males are more likely to express violent feelings by punching walls than are women. And/or: men are more likely to seek medical treatment after punching walls.

The whole: men are more prone to risk taking and invest little in a mate is not well supported by biology. For example, the primary cause of mortality for women throughout most of human history has been pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum period. Pregnancy has been an extremely risky enterprise for women for most of human history.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What about any of that do you think explodes anybody's head? They're both absolutely accurate. Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and men should denounce abusers. These are both non-controversial statements.

You say both are non-controversial, yet JP has rejected both, so it's clearly not settled. But I am with you here: communities should police themselves from within. Largely because policing from outside the community always leads to attacks, and to perception of attacks

Don't worry. I don't count. Koy will just call me a "shithead" and saying nothing else, like in the other thread with zero moderation.

The problem isn't actually that Muslims/Men should stand up against other Muslims/Men when they misbehave. They of course should. But that this message is usually stated and pushed as if they haven't and are not. Or it is pushed as a way to group up collective guilt.

Follow any thread anywhere on this regarding Muslims and terrorism and you'll see this.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If i have to answer the question simply, i'll go with the following:
Men: protectors
Women: nurturers

In reality, life is a mess of complexity. So many other things contradict what i wrote.

 

[Politesse]

If i have to answer the question simply, i'll go with the following:
Men: protectors
Women: nurturers

You've clearly never tussled with a mother bear.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If i have to answer the question simply, i'll go with the following:
Men: protectors
Women: nurturers

You've clearly never tussled with a mother bear.

From the post:

In reality, life is a mess of complexity. So many other things contradict what i wrote.

I am not sure why you chose to snip what i wrote, but that either sex could play either role is a real thing. Also, individuals may be neither. I refuse to write a dissertation on this which is why i wrote that life is too complex to capture everything here. If you want another exception, look at Kavanaugh...definitely not a protector but instead a predator. But maybe not when it comes to his own kids. Yeah, life is a mess of complexity and things contradict what i wrote.

What still remains is that humans evolved with big brains. Generally, woman give birth to one big brained offspring at a time. The baby needs protection and nurturing to survive. Men and women have had to do this to get where we are today. The nurture role is natural for women generally speaking because it begins with the physical reality of physical nurturing in gestation and then by breastfeeding. Men are outside that activity to find themselves being lookouts, hunters, etc. These are more like general drives or factors than a monolithic distinction.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The question of the OP doesn't mean anything to me. I see the world as me; I respond to the world as me. I am male and surely observers might identify some of my behaviors as characteristically male. However, I don't process the world as a male; I process it as me.

I don't kill bugs because I am the male. I kill bugs because my spouse finds the task more daunting than I do. I carry heavy things because I can not because I am male. It may be true that I can carry heavier things because I am male, but that isn't why I do it.

I don't think of my life in terms of being male, though I am. I don't think about "what it means to be a man."

 

[Trausti]

I'd like to see someone take on the challenge of writing out "What it Means to Be a Man" and "What it Means to Be a Woman" without relying on tired old sexist stereotypes, while also being inclusive of the cultures and lifestyles of all LGBTQ's, religions (Islam, in particular), and racial identities.

I wonder if there will be a difference between the two.

5 million years of primate evolution has resulted in differences; chiefly, men are prone to take more risks and have minimal investment in their mates - women mostly being the opposite. So much of our cultural understanding of men and women comes from this.

Your image does not support your statement.

The image more closely supports a statement that males are more likely to express violent feelings by punching walls than are women. And/or: men are more likely to seek medical treatment after punching walls.

The whole: men are more prone to risk taking and invest little in a mate is not well supported by biology. For example, the primary cause of mortality for women throughout most of human history has been pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum period. Pregnancy has been an extremely risky enterprise for women for most of human history.

Ergo, women place a greater investment in mating and mate choice than men do. And to say that men aren't the greater risk takers is to ignore reality.

 

[Toni]

Your image does not support your statement.

The image more closely supports a statement that males are more likely to express violent feelings by punching walls than are women. And/or: men are more likely to seek medical treatment after punching walls.

The whole: men are more prone to risk taking and invest little in a mate is not well supported by biology. For example, the primary cause of mortality for women throughout most of human history has been pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum period. Pregnancy has been an extremely risky enterprise for women for most of human history.

Ergo, women place a greater investment in mating and mate choice than men do. And to say that men aren't the greater risk takers is to ignore reality.

Your diagram merely suggests that men are less careful than women while at work or are more clumsy or accident prone.

I also don't think you understand what the term ergo means.

You also clearly have little understanding of the nature of work that has been traditionally ascribed to women. The reality is that until modern times, women's work was extremely labor intensive, often dangerous and hazardous to their health in many ways and frankly was quite often exactly the same work as a man's. My grandmother, for instance, was no stranger to managing a horse and plow, or to milking or putting up hay or dozens of other physically demanding, difficult labor. For a woman to be able to focus 'only' on the demands of running a household (those demands were extremely labor intensive until at least the 1950's) was a luxury that few families could afford; in many parts of the world, families still cannot afford such luxuries. I'm pretty familiar with the physical demands of my father's job while I was growing up and that of my mother. My mother's work involved more physical labor. My father's recreation demanded more physical labor but my mother's work running a household and raising children was more physically demanding than my father's work in his office.

 

[Trausti]

Your diagram merely suggests that men are less careful than women while at work or are more clumsy or accident prone.

Wow.

 

[Toni]

Your diagram merely suggests that men are less careful than women while at work or are more clumsy or accident prone.

Wow.

Hey, if you want to make a point, choose a better diagram. And offer more explanation. My conclusion was perfectly reasonable, given the paucity of supporting information.

 

[Trausti]

Your diagram merely suggests that men are less careful than women while at work or are more clumsy or accident prone.

Wow.

Hey, if you want to make a point, choose a better diagram. And offer more explanation. My conclusion was perfectly reasonable, given the paucity of supporting information.

Did it not occur to you that men are 93% of work fatalities because they, not women, are mostly doing the dangerous jobs? And they're doing the dangerous jobs because men are greater risk takers? There's no basis for your misandry.

And then there's this on gender differences.

Identifying and explaining apparent universal sex differences in cognition and behavior

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

There's a parallel that may be drawn here, I think:

"Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"
"Men should denounce abusers and reject this behavior of a minority of their members because it is unacceptable"

Cue heads exploding in 3, 2, 1...

What about any of that do you think explodes anybody's head? They're both absolutely accurate. Muslims should denounce Islamic terrorists and men should denounce abusers. These are both non-controversial statements.

I think Loren's point is that many of the same people who constantly urge Muslims to denounce terrorism are men who will not denounce male assaulters.

Heads might explode if they grasp the extent of their double-standard.

 

[ruby sparks]

Your diagram merely suggests that men are less careful than women while at work or are more clumsy or accident prone.

Wow. Exactly how does the diagram merely suggest that conclusion? It's a circle with 93% dark blue shading and 7% light blue shading.