Another Day In The USA

[SimpleDon]

We have always had a lot of guns owned by private citizens in the US. We have always had a mentally unstable portion of our population. We have always had white supremacists in the US. We have always discussed gun control in the US.

And yet the phenomenon of all of these mass shootings is a fairly recent development, just over some decades. Does this tell us something valuable about this problem?

Something more nuanced than the bumper sticker slogans that we repeat here every time one of these happens. My areas of training and knowledge fail me. I don't know the answer.

Here is the annual body count of these events over the last forty years or so.

The number of mass shooting victims by year since 1982.​

There has to be a reason that everything in the US seems to have gone to shit since 1980. Ideas?

 

[Playball40]

If cars were invented to kill you might have a valid argument. But they weren't, so you don't.

However, since you brought up cars......I'm all for treating guns with the same oversight.

1. Annual registration of all 'cars'.
2. License to operate with both written and physical test.
3. Insurance required
4. Limitations of size/type of vehicle allowed

I'm glad to keep going if you would like.

Multiple people have been killed in a shooting in El Paso, Texas, police say

An independent journalist is reporting eighteen people dead. Numerous injuries.

One person detained, one in custody per the police information officer.

An average of 90 Americans die every day in motor vehicle accidents. Time to ban cars yet, guys?

 

[Playball40]

It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.

Actually no one dies of 'obesity'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It appears to pick up at the same time the Internet becomes common place and rises quickly with the advancement of Social Media.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Video games are back in the conversation from the right-wing. It is interesting that the murder rate began dropping in 1993 and despite the popularity of games like Grand Theft Auto, there hasn't been any sustained increase in the murder rate in the US.

 

[PyramidHead]

This is not a problem of video games, music, movies, mental health, or even guns, it's right-wing terrorism. It's not even extreme or far-right anymore; the El Paso guy's manifesto is basically mainstream conservatism since 2015.

 

[Elixir]

This is not a problem of video games, music, movies, mental health, or even guns, it's right-wing terrorism. It's not even extreme or far-right anymore; the El Paso guy's manifesto is basically mainstream conservatism since 2015.

[bold added]

... and the people were wondering - will the media, the democrats or anyone else start calling it what it is?
Do we recall the Republican outrage over Obama's refusal to call acts by middle eastern terrorists "radical Islamic terrorism"?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It appears to pick up at the same time the Internet becomes common place and rises quickly with the advancement of Social Media.

That may be a factor but it correlates with the loss of good high paying factory jobs that the U.S. once had plenty of. High-schoolers or anyone, even dropouts, could get a good job and be financially secure. Those jobs left Dodge. People of limited means and access are more fucked than ever and have lots of access to guns. Right wing xenophobia fits their predicament nicely.

 

[TSwizzle]

It appears to pick up at the same time the Internet becomes common place and rises quickly with the advancement of Social Media.

That may be a factor but it correlates with the loss of good high paying factory jobs that the U.S. once had plenty of. High-schoolers or anyone, even dropouts, could get a good job and be financially secure. Those jobs left Dodge. People of limited means and access are more fucked than ever and have lots of access to guns. Right wing xenophobia fits their predicament nicely.

I don't doubt there are a quite a few things that all play a part in these dreadful events. But I think you need to be seriously messed up in the head to begin with before all the rest of it triggers the mass shooting. There are almost always signs that the person is "off".

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Video games are back in the conversation from the right-wing. It is interesting that the murder rate began dropping in 1993 and despite the popularity of games like Grand Theft Auto, there hasn't been any sustained increase in the murder rate in the US.

Violent video games are very populat in England and Japan. Their murder rates are a fraction of ours and mass murders there are pretty rare. Not like we see in Dayton and El Paso. We don't see weekends like Chicago, last week end, 38 people shot, 5 dead.

Obviously violent video games is not a cause. If we consider Japan, lack of Bible and ten commandments in school isn't the problem, we don't have that in atheistic Japan. In fact, Japanese TV has lots of very violent shows as anybody who has lived there can attest. Murder rates in highly secular societies like Scandinavia and Western Europe has not lead to massive rises in murder and massacres.

This fact has been presented for well over a decade now and our bawling right wing politicians just don't listen to the raw facts. So many people, so full of shit.

https://www.medialit.org/reading-room/media-violence-japan-vs-america

 

[Toni]

It appears to pick up at the same time the Internet becomes common place and rises quickly with the advancement of Social Media.

That may be a factor but it correlates with the loss of good high paying factory jobs that the U.S. once had plenty of. High-schoolers or anyone, even dropouts, could get a good job and be financially secure. Those jobs left Dodge. People of limited means and access are more fucked than ever and have lots of access to guns. Right wing xenophobia fits their predicament nicely.

I don't doubt there are a quite a few things that all play a part in these dreadful events. But I think you need to be seriously messed up in the head to begin with before all the rest of it triggers the mass shooting. There are almost always signs that the person is "off".

Lots of people are or seem to be ‘off’ at least at some point in their lives. Most don’t decide to shoot up homes or public places.

I agree that root causes need to be identified and addressed, including income instability and mental health issues.

That does not mean that we don’t have a very serious problem with easy access to firearms in this country. That can be addressed now. We can enact gun control now and remove AK-15’s and similar from access.

 

[PyramidHead]

The El Paso shooter was perfectly rational and sane. He drove 600 miles to kill Latin American people and didn't post about it until 20 minutes beforehand, knowing that any sooner might get the authorities on his tail. It was premeditated and goal-oriented in a way that doesn't point to anything except ideological commitment to white nationalism, and making noises about mental health (especially while continuing to support the for-profit system that denies it to so many) is a distraction from reality.

Using concepts and phrases directly lifted from presidential speeches, broadcasters on cable news, and millionaire YouTube personalities, this person clearly and succinctly laid out exactly why he did what he did. That means anybody who agrees with those voices can do the same thing, at any time, as long as they have the means. That's fascism arriving in America.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

There is the concept of leaderless resistance. Using propaganda to fill people's heads with bad ideas, and letting the indoctrinated fools go do violence on their own, not commanded by a leader of some terrorist organization who commands that violence. Leaderless resistance has been a key concept of far right racism and anti-Antisemitism for years now. Books like "The Turner Diaries" that inspired Timothy McVeigh for example. The internet has made this sort of propaganda easier to find and to find groups like violent incels and racists and anti-immagrant nativists. Those who do go on the commit atrocities are hailed as role models. the worse of the worse egging each other on to become heros.

 

[ZiprHead]

This is not a problem of video games, music, movies, mental health, or even guns, it's right-wing terrorism. It's not even extreme or far-right anymore; the El Paso guy's manifesto is basically mainstream conservatism since 2015.

[bold added]

... and the people were wondering - will the media, the democrats or anyone else start calling it what it is?
Do we recall the Republican outrage over Obama's refusal to call acts by middle eastern terrorists "radical Islamic terrorism"?

 

[ZiprHead]

The Ohio shooter was a "leftist satanist" who supported Elizabeth Warren. He also had a violent past. He created "kill lists" as far back as his high school days. He just wanted to kill for the sake of killing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is not a problem of video games, music, movies, mental health, or even guns, it's right-wing terrorism. It's not even extreme or far-right anymore; the El Paso guy's manifesto is basically mainstream conservatism since 2015.

[bold added]

... and the people were wondering - will the media, the democrats or anyone else start calling it what it is?
Do we recall the Republican outrage over Obama's refusal to call acts by middle eastern terrorists "radical Islamic terrorism"?

View attachment 22989

So because the media is unfair to the right-wing... random people strike out against people the right-wing is demonizing?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There has been quite a lot of divisiveness on both sides, and the dominoes are starting to fall.

 

[PyramidHead]

The Ohio shooter was a "leftist satanist" who supported Elizabeth Warren. He also had a violent past. He created "kill lists" as far back as his high school days. He just wanted to kill for the sake of killing.

Pretty obvious from the fact that his sister was among the victims, and the others were mostly black, that he wasn't ideologically motivated by his politics in the same way as the last few guys. It's not like he shot up a Trump rally or a white evangelical church.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There has been quite a lot of divisiveness on both sides, and the dominoes are starting to fall.

Yes, but only one side is enabling a number of mass murderers. When that's what you're trying to prevent, it's actually ok to be divisive.

 

[PyramidHead]

There has been quite a lot of divisiveness on both sides, and the dominoes are starting to fall.

Take your both-sides-ism and shove it directly into your anus, Jason, there is just no time left to pretend this is a politically neutral problem. The blood is all over your face and anybody else's who doesn't make the connection to mainstream conservative Republicanism and mass murder at the hands of white men by now.