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Another Day In The USA


Hey, start your own mass shooting thread.


Well, the primary purpose of a motor vehicle is to transport people. That's a good thing. It has utility.

And the primary purpose of a gun is?

For defending yourself against nutbags.

How's that working out for you? By "you", of course you do understand I mean "us". You get that, right?



I think all that is left to do is for those of us who refuse to accept this as normal send a strong message to our obstinate lawmakers. All the laws and regulations to make gun owners responsible will do little now that we are awash in guns. There would still be incident after incident and a chorus of "I told you so" from the nutters.
I think the only thing left, the only thing our lawmakers will understand is economic boycott. It's the only tool left to stop this lunacy. If we do nothing, we make this true of all of us:
Why do Americans always pretend to act so shocked when things like this happen? This is the society which you have chosen and the trade off you have accepted as a reasonable cost of having your second amendment rights. It's not something out of place or unusual that doesn't reflect who you are as a people.
 
Multiple people have been killed in a shooting in El Paso, Texas, police say

An independent journalist is reporting eighteen people dead. Numerous injuries.

One person detained, one in custody per the police information officer.

An average of 90 Americans die every day in motor vehicle accidents. Time to ban cars yet, guys?

Maybe it would better to ban white guys from owning guns. Makes just as much sense.

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Why won’t people stop replying to such obviously trolling posts?!
 
If you background check (really)

So long as you don't do them unfairly.

If you audit dealers (really)

How much diversion is there, though?

If you register and insure

The gun-banners holy grail--a list of guns. Gun registration does nothing else, none of the techniques for fingerprinting a gun actually work very well. Yes, the cops can match a recent bullet to a gun--but not an old bullet. Having a catalog of reference bullets from the time of purchase won't do much if the gun is actually used. It would be like taking tire impressions when you buy a car to match tread patterns at the scene of an accident. Microstamping likewise has big wear issues--and is completely useless if the casings are recovered.

And insurance is a big problem here.

Insurance normally does not apply to deliberate criminal acts and most misuse of guns falls into this category. Only accidents matter--and those are generally to family members. Either they won't be covered or you set up a system that's asking for "accidents".

Insurance is simply an attempt to make guns too expensive to own. The actual harm from guns comes mostly from those who won't be insured anyway.

If you have VERY HGH penalties for unregistered uninsured,

Which is of little deterrence to felons--they're be in jail for quite a while anyway.

If you have annual audits of owners - can start with self-audits
If you follow those reports up with consequences for a stolen gun being unreported...

The biggest vector is stolen guns.

If you ban the rapid-fire weapons and the large clips,

Learn what you're talking about!!

Most weapons out there have the same "rapid-fire" firing rate. Revolvers and semi-auto are limited by the human, not by the gun.

If you do all of these things,

You will have gone a long way towards disarming the law abiding. You will have done very little towards disarming the criminals.

Both the mass shootings and the constant crime-world shootings will be reduced to the benefit of us all.
Mass shootings are particularly talked about because the high capacity magazines involved would be so easy to start with, and because people selfishly tend to focus on the crimes that might hit them - public places, people who are considered “innocent”.

You will reduce the mass shootings, but you will increase the one-at-a-time criminal deaths by more than you reduced the mass shootings. You'll feel better but you'll be less safe.

You left out one very important point; if you did all of these things, it wouldn't affect responsible gun owners one fucking bit. Just in case someone wants to chime in with the "regulation only punishes the good guys" bullshit.

Just about everything on this list is aimed at the law abiding and will have little effect on criminals. It's about getting guns out of society, not about disarming criminals. Calling this bullshit doesn't make it so.
 
Just about everything on this list is aimed at the law abiding and will have little effect on criminals.
What are you so afraid of that makes you say this?

Do you have a threshold? I mean is there some level of senseless death that you could not endure which would change your above statement?

Or do you think such senseless death is necessary, blood and patriotism and all that?
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.
 
Just about everything on this list is aimed at the law abiding and will have little effect on criminals.
What are you so afraid of that makes you say this?

Do you have a threshold? I mean is there some level of senseless death that you could not endure which would change your above statement?

Or do you think such senseless death is necessary, blood and patriotism and all that?
In this instance, I think it is an example of letting the ideal get in the way of a solution. Any restriction on guns will impose some cost on legal owners and users. The policy question is always is the benefit worth the cost? Anyone can throw out objections.
 
The truth is that while mass shootings like these garner ridiculous media coverage, regular shootings like this one that don't get wall-to-wall coverage on CNN are responsible for vast majority of gun homicide victims.
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The truth is that while mass shootings like these garner ridiculous media coverage, regular shootings like this one that don't get wall-to-wall coverage on CNN are responsible for vast majority of gun homicide victims.
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The inherent tribalism that people have had in past and still now (we can get into whether the 2014-6 "haha white people suck" videos by Vox and MTV helped or hurt race relations later).

Ethnic and similar conflicts can lead to deaths and mangling of healthy people in gruesome ways. Think partition of India and Pakistan. Just brutal religious and partially ethnic reprisals.

So either reconciliation or segregation are the best answers. Constant needling and shaming is not.
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

If Muslims killed 29 people in 24 hours, the right wing would be calling them terrorist attacks, Trump would be calling for another "Muslim ban," and the gun nuts would be using it as an opportunity to rescue the failing NRA.

Instead, it's thoughts and prayers, a heartfelt message from the President he clearly didn't write, and gun nuts bemoaning the woeful state of mental health care in America. Again.
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

If Muslims killed 29 people in 24 hours, the right wing would be calling them terrorist attacks, Trump would be calling for another "Muslim ban," and the gun nuts would be using it as an opportunity to rescue the failing NRA.

Instead, it's thoughts and prayers, a heartfelt message from the President he clearly didn't write, and gun nuts bemoaning the woeful state of mental health care in America. Again.

I know that it is not popular or PC among non-right wingers to say that mental health issues play a role in these (and arguably mos) shootings.

Of course only a tiny percentage of people who have any mental illness, including extremely severe depression of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder commit any crime at all, much less such despicable crimes. People with serious mental illnesses are far more likely to be victims of gun violence than perpetrators.

I agree completely. There is no question that this is true.

But surely all of these shooters have some serious mental illness. That doesn’t excuse what they do or even explain why they do what they do. But I think it is wrong and foolish not to look at how their mental illness factors into their despicable and detestable acts of murder.
 
The truth is that while mass shootings like these garner ridiculous media coverage, regular shootings like this one that don't get wall-to-wall coverage on CNN are responsible for vast majority of gun homicide victims.
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Your point, as I take it, is that if you can't fix everything - make things perfect - you shouldn't fix anything.
 
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It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.

I didn't know - until now, that is - that gun lovers view mass shootings as accidents. Quite revealing psychologically.
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
These are accidents, not intentional murders. And we have been working to make them safer and safer. Can you say the same about guns?
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.
That is self-inflicted which mass murders are not . And, countries are working to induce people to eat better and to exercise more in order to have a more healthier life style. Can you say the same about guns?
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.

Which mass shootings were accidents?
 
It always seems that a lot of pro-gun folks view these events like they were natural disasters. Nothing you can do. Send thoughts and prayers.

Same when people die in car accidents. No one's going to ban all cars.
Same when people die in an airplane crash. No one's going to ban all airplanes.
Same when people die of obesity. No one's going to ban sugar and fatty foods.

Which mass shootings were accidents?

They were not accidents. But, there have been people who stabbed people to death. Ban all knives? Or perhaps people should go through a background check if they attempt to buy a knife from a store?
 
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