Choosing to wear hijab is an endorsement of the oppression that created the custom

[Toni]

I think people in general should be allowed to wear what they want. However,


1. many of these women do not want to wear it, but are forced to do so by their families and community even in Western countries like US. In Islamic countries they are usually also forced to wear these things by the government.

2. when there are restrictions on head (or face in case of niqab/burqa) coverings, there should be no exception given to head coverings mandated by religions. And obviously, same rules should apply for males and females.

3. In some cases, hijabs and covering up one's body is stupid and hinders the wearer. Prime example:

The German outfits are not only more aesthetically pleasing, they also allow much more freedom of movement than the outfist Egyptian girls were made to wear.
View attachment 24362
Not surprisingly, the two Egyptian girls ended up at the bottom of their group without even carrying a set.

1. As I’ve stated, I am opposed to people telling other people what to wear.
2. This is much trickier. Are men forbidden to wear facial hair? Are people forbidden to wear hats? Hoods? Wigs? Dark eye glasses? Winter scarves to keep the cold out and protect their faces and ears? The lines that are drawn often seem to come down hard on people of color, or from different countries or who speak different languages and practice funny religions. What seems to be so dangerous seems to be someone who is ‘different.’
3. The Egyptian women were competing for the first time. Bikinis are not that comfortable especially if they ride up your ass cheeks.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.

What lustful looks will a hajib stop? It covers the hair, not any of the sexy bits.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you kidding? Every "woke" progressive in the Western world CAN'T SHUT UP from telling people what to wear. Like when they told that engineer who landed an artificial satellite on a comet that they were offended by what he wore. Or when they single out some space cadet girl wearing feathers or a dream catcher print on her dress at a music festival, or when uni-bloody-versities send official all-student emails telling students exactly what to not fucking wear on Hallowe'en.

Wear exactly what sort of costume they say you shouldn't.

The thing is Halloween costumes are supposed to be of something scary. Those costumes obviously spooked the woke--they're scary.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.

What lustful looks will a hajib stop? It covers the hair, not any of the sexy bits.

In many cultures hair is included in sexy bits. In fact, it is in most. Just picture a bald woman and then the same face with hair. It makes a difference.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.

What lustful looks will a hajib stop? It covers the hair, not any of the sexy bits.

In many cultures hair is included in sexy bits. In fact, it is in most. Just picture a bald woman and then the same face with hair. It makes a difference.

It makes a difference to overall attractiveness but it's not something one typically looks at sexually.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Same end effect. They don't want to feel like objects of lust.

 

[thebeave]

I think people in general should be allowed to wear what they want. However,


1. many of these women do not want to wear it, but are forced to do so by their families and community even in Western countries like US. In Islamic countries they are usually also forced to wear these things by the government.

2. when there are restrictions on head (or face in case of niqab/burqa) coverings, there should be no exception given to head coverings mandated by religions. And obviously, same rules should apply for males and females.

3. In some cases, hijabs and covering up one's body is stupid and hinders the wearer. Prime example:

The German outfits are not only more aesthetically pleasing, they also allow much more freedom of movement than the outfist Egyptian girls were made to wear.
View attachment 24362
Not surprisingly, the two Egyptian girls ended up at the bottom of their group without even carrying a set.

I wonder if the Egyptian girls and German girls are thinking this about each other:

 

[Metaphor]

I wonder if the Egyptian girls and German girls are thinking this about each other:
View attachment 24389

Well, only one of those women is right about the other's attire. The blonde with the ponytail has her eyes covered but also her breasts and genitals.

And any culture that would allow you to wear something as "skimpy" as what the blonde is wearing would also allow you to wear something much more conservative. Any culture where a burka is the norm is going to be far less tolerant of wearing something skimpy.

 

[starwater]

There is a man in my office building that wears a turban every day. I think I should be allowed to gape at his balding head and find that turban restricts his rights in getting a sunburn on his pate.

 

[Toni]

I wonder if the Egyptian girls and German girls are thinking this about each other:
View attachment 24389

Well, only one of those women is right about the other's attire. The blonde with the ponytail has her eyes covered but also her breasts and genitals.

And any culture that would allow you to wear something as "skimpy" as what the blonde is wearing would also allow you to wear something much more conservative. Any culture where a burka is the norm is going to be far less tolerant of wearing something skimpy.

Apparently this should not be true in some people’s eyes. Some people wish to ban hijabs or burkas while expressing no qualms about bikinis.

 

[Derec]

1. As I’ve stated, I am opposed to people telling other people what to wear.

- How can you tell if a Muslim woman was not made to wear it. Especially a Muslim woman living in "Little Mogadishu" aka Clarkston, Ga or some other heavily Islamic community where it would become "talk of the town" if Mahnoor didn't don her niqab to go to the DeKalb Industrial Way Kroger?

2. This is much trickier. Are men forbidden to wear facial hair? Are people forbidden to wear hats? Hoods? Wigs? Dark eye glasses? Winter scarves to keep the cold out and protect their faces and ears? The lines that are drawn often seem to come down hard on people of color, or from different countries or who speak different languages and practice funny religions. What seems to be so dangerous seems to be someone who is ‘different.’

If anything rules are circumvented to give special leeway to people who practice "funny religions". Like allowing a woman to wear her burqa in her driver's license photo completely defeating the purpose of such photos.

3. The Egyptian women were competing for the first time.

Is that why they did not know how to dress?

Bikinis are not that comfortable especially if they ride up your ass cheeks.

If burqinis were really so superior to bikinis, don't you think more teams would wear them? FWIW, I think it's only a matter of time before either Islamic countries and/or #MeToo feminists force IOC to make female beach volleyball players dress more modestly.

 

[Derec]

What lustful looks will a hajib stop? It covers the hair, not any of the sexy bits.

Hijab is supposed to go with generally "modest" dress.


Of course, the actually existing hijab is often very different.


Or very, very, very different.
NSFW:

Show

I've gone on the Internet and found this ...

Show

Mia Khalifa

Obviously if Allah were real, he could easily see through such subterfuge.

 

[Derec]

In many cultures hair is included in sexy bits. In fact, it is in most. Just picture a bald woman and then the same face with hair. It makes a difference.

Counterexample:

 

[Derec]

I wonder if the Egyptian girls and German girls are thinking this about each other:

I've seen that stupid cartoon before and it doesn't make even a bit of sense.

- For the Muslim woman, truly only her eyes are uncovered. The kafir woman wears shades, yes, but her boobs are covered, as are both her fanny (UK) and fanny (US). So the Muslim woman is factually incorrect.
- Muslims practicing hijab/niqab/burqa have the rule that a woman is not allowed to be seen by a male who is not a close relative without those outfits. On the other hand, there is no rule that Western women must wear bikinis, not even at a beach (more covering one-piece suits are also common)
- The beach/pool is the only place one would customarily encounter a woman wearing only a bikini. Regular street wear covers a lot more skin.
- "Cruel male-dominated culture"? Maybe Islam, but even there a lot of the oppression comes from fellow women. For an example look at the foreign annex at Al Hol (at least until the most recent Trump clusterfuck).
At a sprawling tent camp in Syria, ISIS women impose a brutal rule
On the other hand, I do not see why having a bikini as one swimwear option makes a culture "cruel" or "male-dominated".

So the two situations are not at all comparable.

But then again Malcolm Evans is a virtue-signalling, woke idiot. He hates Israel too, so no wonder he likes Islamists.

 

[Toni]

I wonder if the Egyptian girls and German girls are thinking this about each other:

I've seen that stupid cartoon before and it doesn't make even a bit of sense.

- For the Muslim woman, truly only her eyes are uncovered. The kafir woman wears shades, yes, but her boobs are covered, as are both her fanny (UK) and fanny (US). So the Muslim woman is factually incorrect.
- Muslims practicing hijab/niqab/burqa have the rule that a woman is not allowed to be seen by a male who is not a close relative without those outfits. On the other hand, there is no rule that Western women must wear bikinis, not even at a beach (more covering one-piece suits are also common)
- The beach/pool is the only place one would customarily encounter a woman wearing only a bikini. Regular street wear covers a lot more skin.
- "Cruel male-dominated culture"? Maybe Islam, but even there a lot of the oppression comes from fellow women. For an example look at the foreign annex at Al Hol (at least until the most recent Trump clusterfuck).
At a sprawling tent camp in Syria, ISIS women impose a brutal rule
On the other hand, I do not see why having a bikini as one swimwear option makes a culture "cruel" or "male-dominated".

So the two situations are not at all comparable.

But then again Malcolm Evans is a virtue-signalling, woke idiot. He hates Israel too, so no wonder he likes Islamists.

Have you ever spoken with Muslim people? Or people of religious or cultural backgrounds that see what they consider to be more modest dress as more respectful of women?

I have, probably since before you were born. The cartoon is not some newfangled 'woke' bit of propaganda. It's exactly how some Muslim people see things: Western women not being valued because they are expected to be on display, to be leered at and worse by strangers vs Muslim women who are protected by their families who love and care for them and do not want them to be subjected to the prying eyes of strangers.

IMO, both views are problematic because frankly there are people who will find any excuse they can to treat other people--in this case, women--badly.

Yet there are also good points. In western culture, young girls are often sexualized and valued for how they look more than for who they are from a very young age. Pre-adolescent girls, often grade school girls, become aware that (some) men look at them in sexual ways, even if they aren't sure what sex actually is. It's uncomfortable and can be extremely demoralizing and damaging.

Cultures that treat girls as fragile beings who will be preyed upon by lustful men if they expose an ankle or a wrist are also damaging.

In both cases, girls, often very young girls, are held as responsible for the feelings and emotions and actions of boys and grown men who are held blameless for being 'tempted' or being unable or unwilling to actually view girls and women as human beings.

 

[Toni]

What lustful looks will a hajib stop? It covers the hair, not any of the sexy bits.

Hijab is supposed to go with generally "modest" dress.
View attachment 24403

Of course, the actually existing hijab is often very different.
View attachment 24404

Or very, very, very different.
NSFW:

Show

I've gone on the Internet and found this ...

Show

Mia Khalifa

Obviously if Allah were real, he could easily see through such subterfuge.

You realize that there are different sects in Islam with different views about modest dress, etc,, right?

 

[Derec]

You realize that there are different sects in Islam with different views about modest dress, etc,, right?

I am aware. However, I am not aware of any Islamic sect that mandates hijab but is fine with a woman's g-string poking out of her low-rider jeans.

 

[Derec]

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

That's not freedom. She still feels the need to wear clothes. That's only halfway along the spectrum towards freedom.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

IMO, both views are problematic because frankly there are people who will find any excuse they can to treat other people--in this case, women--badly.

Credit where credit is due. You said people and then noted this is but one example and that it isn't just women who are treated badly. A pleasant turn of events.

In both cases, girls, often very young girls, are held as responsible for the feelings and emotions and actions of boys and grown men who are held blameless for being 'tempted' or being unable or unwilling to actually view girls and women as human beings.

Yes. I have asked Muslim men why the women wear burkas instead of the men wearing blinders like horses. If it is to control the lust of men, then the men should be the ones doing something to curtail it.