Why YEC can seem plausible

[Learner]

Wait... all of that above had a point... regarding testing nonetheless? Which once again ignores the issue that you can't test something that demands to be revered as inerrant!

That was just one aspect about testing the bible. Obviously we can't ask God to give you a miracle then you'd change your mind.

After the 10 Plagues, and the march across the Red Sea, when the Israelites had no question but to believe in God's existance and power, they still managed to turn to the golden shin. Seems like God's Word says you're wrong, there.

And the Bible also says that the reason Jesus performed mirackes was to show people that he had an 'in' with god.

So where do you get this idea we cannot ask for a miracle, Learner?

People were still not convinced and still crucified Jesus still turning their backs on God as did the Israelites who turned to worshipping a bull.

 

[Elixir]

After the 10 Plagues, and the march across the Red Sea, when the Israelites had no question but to believe in God's existance and power, they still managed to turn to the golden shin. Seems like God's Word says you're wrong, there.

And the Bible also says that the reason Jesus performed mirackes was to show people that he had an 'in' with god.

So where do you get this idea we cannot ask for a miracle, Learner?

People were still not convinced and crucified Jesus still turning their backs on God as did the Israelites.

One lousy try and God gave up, eh? He was like, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!" or something like that.

 

[Learner]

One lousy try and God gave up, eh? He was like, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!" or something like that.

It gets sorted out in the end...

Would you want to live with God in His Kingdom? Some people wouldn't like the idea if it were true. That's what its all about.

 

[Elixir]

One lousy try and God gave up, eh? He was like, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!" or something like that.

It gets sorted out in the end...

Ah yes, the End Times, aka "The Good Old Days"
Wish I had a nickel for every end of the world I've lived through...

Would you want to live with God in His Kingdom?

Sure, if I get to invent both the God and His Kingdom - as every religion has done for its own benefit.
With YOUR God in YOUR God's Kingdom - not a chance!

Some people wouldn't like the idea if it were true. That's what its all about.

What idea? The idea that your God exists and the other 9,999 gods are all false?

 

[Keith&Co.]

After the 10 Plagues, and the march across the Red Sea, when the Israelites had no question but to believe in God's existance and power, they still managed to turn to the golden shin. Seems like God's Word says you're wrong, there.

And the Bible also says that the reason Jesus performed mirackes was to show people that he had an 'in' with god.

So where do you get this idea we cannot ask for a miracle, Learner?

People were still not convinced and still crucified Jesus still turning their backs on God as did the Israelites who turned to worshipping a bull.

so, it's NOT automatic that i will change my mind? I still have free will, even if i ask for a miracle and get it? Huh.

Okaynew question, where do you get this idea we CANNOT ask fir a miracle, Learner?

 

[Learner]

Ah yes, the End Times, aka "The Good Old Days"
Wish I had a nickel for every end of the world I've lived through...

I know what you mean, been there myself, however things have progressed a little. The End of Days (please humour me) doesn't begin untill all four corners of the earth has been preached to. It looks like just a few nations left perhaps. Sequence of events in the order as its in revelation.

Sure, if I get to invent both the God and His Kingdom - as every religion has done for its own benefit.
With YOUR God in YOUR God's Kingdom - not a chance!

But if it wasn't an invention?

What idea? The idea that your God exists and the other 9,999 gods are all false?

If the above was true, mevermind..

 

[Learner]

so, it's NOT automatic that i will change my mind? I still have free will, even if i ask for a miracle and get it? Huh.

Okaynew question, where do you get this idea we CANNOT ask fir a miracle, Learner?

Sorry, (not doing a good job) I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16Luke 4:12 , Matthew 4:6-8.

We can ask for a miracle, sign, message or guidance like helping someone come to God for example.

 

[DBT]

One lousy try and God gave up, eh? He was like, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!" or something like that.

It gets sorted out in the end...

Would you want to live with God in His Kingdom? Some people wouldn't like the idea if it were true. That's what its all about.

I'm not aware of a God coming forward and openly and honestly making the offer.

 

[Keith&Co.]

so, it's NOT automatic that i will change my mind? I still have free will, even if i ask for a miracle and get it? Huh.

Okaynew question, where do you get this idea we CANNOT ask fir a miracle, Learner?

Sorry, (not doing a good job) I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16

That really looks to me like 'test' means 'trying God's patience' in that verse. I mean, in context, it's not about proving God exists, it's about obeying him, not pushing the envelope.
So that would only be a stricture against 'putting God to the test' if there's another commandment about 'not making God prove he exists.'

Luke 4:12 ,

KJV says And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Others do say 'test' or 'it is written.'

But again, that's not proving God exists. That's a challenge to prove Jesus was Messiah. So i shouldn't try to prove that i'm special in God's eyes. Not quite the same as proving he merely exists.

Matthew 4:6-8.

As above....the remix.

We can ask for a miracle, sign, message or guidance like helping someone come to God for example.

Okay, i thought you JUST tried to show that you CANNOT do that. And earlier you said NOT to do that.

Which is it?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wait... all of that above had a point... regarding testing nonetheless? Which once again ignores the issue that you can't test something that demands to be revered as inerrant!

That was just one aspect about testing the bible.

You can't test what demands to be considered inerrant.

Obviously we can't ask God to give you a miracle then you'd change your mind. As I see it and as it is with the scripture, the early Christians never did those things to prove God's existence, even when facing death. It would of course be awfully helpful for the sake of debates and arguments yes indeed. Nevertheless testing ALL THINGS (when in doubt of a variety of things,) should still apply.

You are starting to sound like the Heaven's Gate Cult Leader, saying the same thing over and over. The Earth is going to be recycled...

I won't go any further with my previous quote above, since that wasn't the answer you were asking for but I'll just say that there are other points of significance with Qumran (at least for theists) which deals with things for example like: Hell is not a Christian invention, the notion of the old arguments against the Christian theology that "it's not mentioned in the OT so therefore. invention" its in the Book of Enoch that predates the bible. The Maccabees believed in the "suffering and ressurection" as Jews etc...

Its an ongoing progress each day, the testing of the bible historically, like names and places, the event of the flood issues and various evolution issues, depending what side you see it from.

That testing isn't being done. Heck, the Michael Bay inspired Book of Exodus can't even name the Pharaoh, as Genesis doesn't as well. The geology is done, the archaeology is done, the physics is well past that point. Many of the founding fathers of our sciences dedicated their time to using their mad science skills to prove god. But while they did manage to establish so many of the principles we take for granted today, they all failed on proving god through science. So the on-going testing is in your mind only.

 

[steve_bank]

The fact that the Earth was the center of the universe was once plausible. From observation sun, moon, and stars rotated around the Earth.

With telescopes we found that is not true. YEC seemed plausible to ancients without science and technology to know otherwise.

 

[steve_bank]

so, it's NOT automatic that i will change my mind? I still have free will, even if i ask for a miracle and get it? Huh.

Okaynew question, where do you get this idea we CANNOT ask fir a miracle, Learner?

Sorry, (not doing a good job) I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16Luke 4:12 , Matthew 4:6-8.

We can ask for a miracle, sign, message or guidance like helping someone come to God for example.

So you are saying the god hypothesis is not testable? Of course, that is why it is faith not science. Why try to prove the unprovable to others?

I forgot, in the NT it says go out and convert others.

 

[Lion IRC]

so, it's NOT automatic that i will change my mind? I still have free will, even if i ask for a miracle and get it? Huh.

Okaynew question, where do you get this idea we CANNOT ask fir a miracle, Learner?

Sorry, (not doing a good job)

I think you're being quite clear.

I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16Luke 4:12 , Matthew 4:6-8.

Exactly.
We can TRY put a collar and a leash on God but we won't succeed.
...hey God, first you gotta obey me and THEN I'll decide whether or not I'll obey you.

View attachment 11812

 

[excreationist]

...YEC seemed plausible to ancients without science and technology to know otherwise.

Apparently much of YEC is a fairly modern interpretation of the Bible...

https://www.oldearth.org/tract/tract.htm

 

[DBT]

The bible gives descriptions that are consistent with flat earth cosmology. Geocentrism is not a new interpretation, nor is young earth creationism. The church never considered the earth to be billions of years old, or that life evolved from microbes to multi-cell organisms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think you're being quite clear.

I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16Luke 4:12 , Matthew 4:6-8.

Exactly.
We can TRY put a collar and a leash on God but we won't succeed.
...hey God, first you gotta obey me and THEN I'll decide whether or not I'll obey you.

The indisputable creator of the universe... the personal god... but there is no sign of it (real signs)... you can't ask anything of it... when it mattered the most, when we were tearing the Earth apart in WWII, we heard, saw nothing... and if you have a problem with that, you are the one being unreasonable.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to kiss Hank's arse.

 

[steve_bank]

I believe YEC started with a pope centuries back who derived a timeline from the bible and decreed how old the Earth is.

 

[Learner]

I think you're being quite clear.

I meant we can't be putting God to the test (usually in context to demands by those against or mocking God): Deuteronomy 6:16Luke 4:12 , Matthew 4:6-8.

Exactly.
We can TRY put a collar and a leash on God but we won't succeed.
...hey God, first you gotta obey me and THEN I'll decide whether or not I'll obey you.

The indisputable creator of the universe... the personal god... but there is no sign of it (real signs)... you can't ask anything of it... when it mattered the most, when we were tearing the Earth apart in WWII, we heard, saw nothing... and if you have a problem with that, you are the one being unreasonable.

You (plural) ask these things of a theists but you don't take note of the theology, to at least get the gist of what theists believe to expect (however strange it sounds). From the time of Jesus... to 'the last days' as its known, the inbetween of these points. God doesn't appear again, until Judgement day etc.. Its not Gods world anymore as the biblical notion goes. "There will be wars and rumours of war" for example has always been expected.

May not be what you call a good response, but thats the answer, in short.

Real concerned expressions describing Gods "evil" (evil by their viewpoint) which says man knows better and can do better without God. It seems we needed to be those good-will individuals then, in WWII (before it ever happening)and no doubt we would need to be them now, where that need requires, somewhere in the world. I think we would agree here at least, that 'its up to us' would be ideal, to love our neighbours etc.,if only.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I believe YEC started with a pope centuries back who derived a timeline from the bible and decreed how old the Earth is.

Given the knowledge available to him at the time that sounds quite scientific and rational of him. Given the availability of knowledge and science today the question is what makes people still expound such insanity.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The indisputable creator of the universe... the personal god... but there is no sign of it (real signs)... you can't ask anything of it... when it mattered the most, when we were tearing the Earth apart in WWII, we heard, saw nothing... and if you have a problem with that, you are the one being unreasonable.

You (plural) ask these things of a theists but you don't take note of the theology...

I'm not asking for an apple to appear magically in front of me. In fact, if that were to happen, I might be able to believe in that deity, but sure the heck not worshiping it. Make an apple arbitrarily appear, but when millions of people were getting slaughtered mass production style, when we were building bombs with power that was at that point unimaginable within the grasp of man, there was nothing but the same silence that we've seen for millennia.

But Pope John Paul II had miracles to get him canonized, which seemed a bit odd. Oh, when it really mattered... nothing. But when it was someone of a limited convenience, God is noted for the contribution. God got Kurt Warner into the NFL, but could save lives in the death camps.

God loves us, just doesn't care to help us.