Philippines ends Military Cooperation Deal with USA

[Jolly_Penguin]

The Visiting Forces Agreement has been put to an end, to take effect in 180 days. Some Filipinos and the US itself are concerned that this opens the door for Chinese agression in the region. Others feel the Americans were provoking the Chinese and want the Americans out because the Americans (who formerly invaded and occupied the Philippines) are still seen as a threat themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/world/asia/philippines-united-states-duterte.html

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds going forward. Will Duterte abort this move to kick the US out after being given some assurances or a deal is struck? Will China become more aggressive in the region? Will rebel seniment in Mindanao flare back up?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think China will get more aggressive.

This is probably a case of jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

 

[PyramidHead]

This is already shaping up to be a rough decade for American imperialism, and I love it

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think China will get more aggressive.

This is probably a case of jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

You mean, Duterte is taking the Chinese money... and those in the US Government have absolutely no brains to try and stop the shift. Granted Duterte is a lunatic himself and there might be no dealings with him.

 

[Half-Life]

This is why we on the right advocate for military presence. If we pulled out of all these countries, how long before they all get attacked and destroyed?

Just imagine if we pulled out of every Middle East country. All hell would break loose over there, even worse than it is now. That's no way to help the people of those nations.

 

[Trausti]

Eh, they know, we know, everyone knows, that the US will come to the aid of the Philippines if the South China Sea gets hot.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This is why we on the right advocate for military presence. If we pulled out of all these countries, how long before they all get attacked and destroyed?

Many Filipinos feel that you Americans are more of a threat than a help, and history supports that position. USA invaded and occupied Philippines TWICE in history. How do we get it through your head that Filipinos don't want you putting your military forces in the Philippines? Shouldn't it be the Philippines who decides this?

 

[Jayjay]

This is a few years old, but at least in 2017 Filipinos supported US military presence in the Philippines by a large margin:

Since the Philippines gained independence from the U.S. in 1946, the U.S. has maintained some military presence on the islands. And despite vocal protests by some Filipinos, three-quarters say that having U.S. military personnel based in the Philippines is a good thing for the country, while just 20% say it is a bad thing. This view holds across demographic groups, and even among those who hold an unfavorable view of the U.S., a majority (63%) say that having U.S. military personnel based in the Philippines is good for their country.

 

[laughing dog]

This is why we on the right advocate for military presence. If we pulled out of all these countries, how long before they all get attacked and destroyed?

Many Filipinos feel that you Americans are more of a threat than a help, and history supports that position. USA invaded and occupied Philippines TWICE in history. How do we get it through your head that Filipinos don't want you putting your military forces in the Philippines? Shouldn't it be the Philippines who decides this?

Please educate me, what was the 2nd time the US invaded the Philippines.

I do agree that the citizens of the Phillippines should decide if they want US forces stationed there. Do you have any actual evidence to support your observation about what the citizens of the Phillippines want? I ask because I happen to know a fair number of Filipinos and while my sample may not be random, every single one of them is in favor of US forces remaining in the Phillippines.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is why we on the right advocate for military presence. If we pulled out of all these countries, how long before they all get attacked and destroyed?

Many Filipinos feel that you Americans are more of a threat than a help, and history supports that position. USA invaded and occupied Philippines TWICE in history. How do we get it through your head that Filipinos don't want you putting your military forces in the Philippines? Shouldn't it be the Philippines who decides this?

Please educate me, what was the 2nd time the US invaded the Philippines.

1) Spanish American War
2) WWII

Yes, there is context to keep in mind.

 

[laughing dog]

Please educate me, what was the 2nd time the US invaded the Philippines.

1) Spanish American War
2) WWII

Yes, there is context to keep in mind.

I certainly hope that is not what JP meant, because our "invasion" of the Phillippines in WW2 was to liberate the Phillipines from the undesired occupation of the Japanese. At least, that is the history I was taught, and the history I was told by Filipinos who fought with US against the Japanese. To equate the WW2 "invasion" with the invasion of the Spanish American war would even make Goebbels blush.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Please educate me, what was the 2nd time the US invaded the Philippines.

1) Spanish American War
2) WWII

Yes, there is context to keep in mind.

I certainly hope that is not what JP meant, because our "invasion" of the Phillippines in WW2 was to liberate the Phillipines from the undesired occupation of the Japanese. At least, that is the history I was taught, and the history I was told by Filipinos who fought with US against the Japanese. To equate the WW2 "invasion" with the invasion of the Spanish American war would even make Goebbels blush.

Our remaining there could be the source of suggesting it goes from liberation to occupation. Regardless, I'm just reporting on the times US troops have made with the feet in The Philippines.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Our remaining there could be the source of suggesting it goes from liberation to occupation.

Filipinos had to take up arms to end that occupation by the Americans. And it is quite likely that the US had more than a little to do with the Japanese and invasion of the Philippines.

As for what Filipinos today think of the US bases there, it is .iced as I noted above. There are some who want them there and many others who do not. Having been born in the Philippines and having many friends and family still there I think my breadth of experience with Filipinos is a bit more than laughing dog's.

 

[steve_bank]

This is already shaping up to be a rough decade for American imperialism, and I love it

Well said comrade. Lets you and I defect and seek asylum in Russia, Cuba, or China, or North Korea, or Venezuela...

 

[laughing dog]

As for what Filipinos today think of the US bases there, it is .iced as I noted above. There are some who want them there and many others who do not. Having been born in the Philippines and having many friends and family still there I think my breadth of experience with Filipinos is a bit more than laughing dog's.

True, but it is possible your sample is not random. Which is why I asked if you had any evidence.

 

[steve_bank]

There has been Chinese and PI confrontation on the sea over fishing. In one situation the PI grounded a boat on a small set of rocks declaring it PI territory and the water around it.

Our bases closed long ago. We have special ops people helping the PI military deal with Muslim separatists. Subic Bay is gone.


The US is a major outlet for PI migration. Immigrants here send money back.

It is symbolic by the PI. It is inconsequential for the USA.

From reporting China offers counties easy financing for infrastructure for things like ports. When they inevitably default China takes over the facilities.

I say to hell with them. Let them get cozy with China. The PI is yet another sectarian civil conflict we do not need and do not benefit from.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-17038024

The southern Philippines has a long history of conflict, with armed groups including Muslim separatists, communists, clan militias and criminal groups all active in the area.

Three groups comprise the Muslim separatists - the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF), the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and the Abu Sayyaf. The MILF and the Abu Sayyaf are breakaway factions of the MNLF.

The communist insurgency, on the other hand, is propagated by the Communist Party of the Philippines' (CPP) military wing, the New People's Army (NPA).

Most of the conflict in the south is in the remote islands of central Mindanao, especially on Basilan and Jolo.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...bay-as-military-base-to-cover-south-china-sea

Philippines reopens Subic Bay as military base to cover South China Sea


This article is more than 4 years old



Fighter planes and frigates to be stationed at sprawling former US facility, allowing quicker response to Chinese moves in disputed waters

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

True, but it is possible your sample is not random. Which is why I asked if you had any evidence.

No, I am not aware of any reliable public surveys on the question to tell us the actual numbers, but I do know there are quite a few people on both sides of the issue.

 

[PyramidHead]

This is already shaping up to be a rough decade for American imperialism, and I love it

Well said comrade. Lets you and I defect and seek asylum in Russia, Cuba, or China, or North Korea, or Venezuela...

Russia... my god. Do you understand what year it is right now?

But yes, any of those other places would be fine and good to be the major power in the world today, and far far better than the USA, Germany, Japan, or Great Britain having that role.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As for what Filipinos today think of the US bases there, it is .iced as I noted above. There are some who want them there and many others who do not. Having been born in the Philippines and having many friends and family still there I think my breadth of experience with Filipinos is a bit more than laughing dog's.

Okay, so based on your experience there are many that support US troops presence and many that support the US troops leaving. Sounds like a lot of text posted to tell us what we already knew.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You know nothing John Snow.