Marissa Alexander's 20/yr sentence overturned

[laughing dog]

Not only is this an assumption on your part, but it flies in the face of the history between the two.

He didn't follow her into the garage. She's safe.

Effectively imprisoned in the house of an abusive person, with no way to get out. That doesn't really sound particularly safe to me.

And if he entered the garage she would have been justified in shooting.

The reality is she ended the confrontation by going to the garage. Anything that happened before she entered the garage is now irrelevant.

Furthermore, even had she not entered the garage telling him to leave was not something she had a right to do--it was his place, not hers. "Let me leave" would have been legal, but that's not what she did.

For some reason, you think any of this relevant. You have no idea what was going on in her mind. You have no idea whether she felt threatened or not. You have no idea whether she knew where her husband was when she moved around. All in all, you are simply making up stuff to fit your "narrative" of what happened. It makes little sense to post an ideal set of reactions and then criticize her for not following them.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Why didn't the altercation continue in the garage then and stay there?

You'd have to ask Mr. Gray that. You know, he's the guy who knew she couldn't get out of there.

So they were in a heated conversation and he stopped the conversation when she went to the garage. Not how a normal heated conversation goes. I can understand why the jury didn't buy it either.

 

[ZiprHead]

You'd have to ask Mr. Gray that. You know, he's the guy who knew she couldn't get out of there.

So they were in a heated conversation and he stopped the conversation when she went to the garage. Not how a normal heated conversation goes. I can understand why the jury didn't buy it either.

Did you see the photo of the bullet hole? Right next to the doorway. Gray had already said he wasn't going to let her leave. He was still standing in the doorway blocking her egress. Seems to me Gray came damned close to a kidnapping charge. No wonder he changed his story.

 

[coloradoatheist]

So they were in a heated conversation and he stopped the conversation when she went to the garage. Not how a normal heated conversation goes. I can understand why the jury didn't buy it either.

Did you see the photo of the bullet hole? Right next to the doorway. Gray had already said he wasn't going to let her leave. He was still standing in the doorway blocking her egress. Seems to me Gray came damned close to a kidnapping charge. No wonder he changed his story.

Huh? She went to the garage to leave, he didn't follow. She grabbed her gun and went back inside and fired a shot at him. What was his original story?

 

[Toni]

Did you see the photo of the bullet hole? Right next to the doorway. Gray had already said he wasn't going to let her leave. He was still standing in the doorway blocking her egress. Seems to me Gray came damned close to a kidnapping charge. No wonder he changed his story.

Huh? She went to the garage to leave, he didn't follow. She grabbed her gun and went back inside and fired a shot at him. What was his original story?

His original deposition and her story is that she went into the garage. He knew she could not leave through the garage: it was locked at the time. Hers: She figured out she could not leave through the garage. She thought the garage door was not operational. She retrieved the gun to get him to back off so that she could leave through another exit. She had left her phone in the house and could not call for help.

There are multiple scenarios that could explain why later the door was operational.

His original deposition supports her story: she could not exit through the garage and she fired up, not at him. He changed his story--very dramatically, not with small details but dramatically. Also in the 911 call he mentions his son (singular). Later the allegation is that two sons were present and near him when she fired the gun.

Whether you believe her or not, he has demonstrated his willingness to lie under oath. There is only one story where they both agree: that is the one where she has just been assaulted and has no way to exit the house. She has stuck to that story; he has changed his story. We also know that he has allegations of domestic assault filed against him from multiple individuals, including Alexander, who was put in the hospital because of his abuse. We know that he has had at least one conviction of domestic abuse and depending on the source, multiple convictions.

It is clear to me that Gray abused Alexander multiple times. It is also clear to me that he is known to be a liar. The entire story hinges on who is now telling the truth. I find her story more credible, simply because he has changed his story dramatically and has demonstrated his willingness and ability to lie under oath.

 

[Nexus]

Seems to me it worked pretty damn good in this situation.

How do you figured it worked out well for her? She's facing a 20 year prison sentence because the authorities aren't buying her self defense claim. If she had been in a imminent life threatening situation she would have wasted valuable time and ammunition with those wall shots. Luckily for her he wasn't trying to kill her and her mistake didn't cost her life.

 

[Derec]

Did you see the photo of the bullet hole? Right next to the doorway. Gray had already said he wasn't going to let her leave. He was still standing in the doorway blocking her egress. Seems to me Gray came damned close to a kidnapping charge. No wonder he changed his story.

It wasn't a doorway, it was an arched passageway between the living room and the kitchen. She could have left via the front door if she didn't manage to open the garage door.
Also, it's his house, not hers. If he only came by to pick up her stuff, why did she bother putting the car in the garage in the first place?

 

[RavenSky]

She drew on him without adequate reason. That's a lethal threat.

I still find it amazing, in a vile, disgusting sort of way, that the very same people who continue to defend Zimmerman and Dunn would dare to say that Marissa Alexander had "no adequate reason" to draw her gun.

Loren is not even saying she shouldn't have shot the gun... He is saying she shouldn't have even "DREW" the gun in self-defense against a KNOWN ABUSER WHO ADMITS TO ATTACKING HER THAT DAY.

 

[RavenSky]

I do not know all the details of this case, I am not privy to all of the information. I have only that which is available via news media, much of which is hearsay. There are some facts that make this case a bit less than black-and-white for me.


Marissa Alexander went to Rico Gray's house

Not his house. It legally belonged to both of them. He wasn't supposed to be there while she gathered some of her stuff.

 

[RavenSky]

Furthermore, even had she not entered the garage telling him to leave was not something she had a right to do--it was his place, not hers. "Let me leave" would have been legal, but that's not what she did.

1. HER house too. BOTH names were on the deed.
2. She DID beg to leave. He wouldn't let her. You don't get to get all pissy about her then trying to tell him to leave

Apparently a woman only has the right to defend herself against an abusive husband after she's dead, because anything short of her being dead is not abuse enough for some people.

- - - Updated - - -

Had he gone to her place I would take a different position.

. It was her place too. I'm willing to bet you still won't change your position.

 

[ZiprHead]

Did you see the photo of the bullet hole? Right next to the doorway. Gray had already said he wasn't going to let her leave. He was still standing in the doorway blocking her egress. Seems to me Gray came damned close to a kidnapping charge. No wonder he changed his story.

It wasn't a doorway, it was an arched passageway between the living room and the kitchen. She could have left via the front door if she didn't manage to open the garage door.
Also, it's his house, not hers. If he only came by to pick up her stuff, why did she bother putting the car in the garage in the first place?

The front door is in the living room. She must pass through that doorway/passageway/whatever-you-want-to-call-it way to get to the living room to leave. He was between her and the door and he was not going to let her leave. If someone had threatened then attempted unlawful imprisonment on me, you're damn skippy I'm going to defend myself, with a gun if I've got one.

All the rest of your extraneous BS matters not.

 

[Derec]

His original deposition and her story is that she went into the garage.

Why was her car in the garage in the first place?

He knew she could not leave through the garage: it was locked at the time.

If she put the car in the garage she would have had the key or the transmitter. She herself claimed the door was malfunctioning but the police found no evidence of that.

Hers: She figured out she could not leave through the garage. She thought the garage door was not operational. She retrieved the gun to get him to back off so that she could leave through another exit. She had left her phone in the house and could not call for help.

When she reentered the house why didn't she leave by the front door then? And if he is such a threat that she needed a gun during an argument, why did she come to his house without somebody else?

There are multiple scenarios that could explain why later the door was operational.

Like for example that she was lying.

His original deposition supports her story: she could not exit through the garage and she fired up, not at him.

Too bad (for her) that it doesn't support physical evidence of the bullet hole. Also his initial statements to the 911 operator do not support the later, sanitized story.

He changed his story--very dramatically, not with small details but dramatically. Also in the 911 call he mentions his son (singular). Later the allegation is that two sons were present and near him when she fired the gun.

Meaning exactly what? That he swallowed an "s" while still in shock of being shot at or that it's a elaborate ruse to get her charged with another count even though the other son wasn't there?

We also know that he has allegations of domestic assault filed against him from multiple individuals, including Alexander, who was put in the hospital because of his abuse.

When was Marissa put in hospital because of his abuse?

It is clear to me that Gray abused Alexander multiple times. It is also clear to me that he is known to be a liar. The entire story hinges on who is now telling the truth. I find her story more credible, simply because he has changed his story dramatically and has demonstrated his willingness and ability to lie under oath.

They are both abusers. They are both liars.
Take the incident that happened when she was released on bail and went to his house and attacked him. Needless to say, initiating any contact with Grey was against the conditions of her bail, not just assault and battery. The police report makes for interesting reading.
For example

I met with the suspect approximately one hour at a nearby location after speaking with her on the phone. On the phone she was hesitant to meet with me and stated that she did not understand what this was about and that she had an alibi.

Later she admitted to going there but said that he attacked her (however, he was injured but she wasn't).

On the way to the jail the suspect stated that she felt light headed and became unresponsive. [..] her vitals were fine. I also observed that there was a small cut under the suspect's eye that was not there prior to her being placed in my back seat and being transported.

So quite a liar and a performance artist who is willing to feign a medical emergency and injure herself to make it look as if she was the victim rather than the perpetrator.

Of course, RavenSky will say that this whole incident is just a figment of MRAs' imaginations.


I find his story that he was just trying to help his ex avoid prison credible. He would not be the first DV victim to change his story to help his significant other.

 

[Derec]

The front door is in the living room. She must pass through that doorway/passageway/whatever-you-want-to-call-it way to get to the living room to leave.

Do you know that for a fact or are you just guessing?

He was between her and the door and he was not going to let her leave.

According to her. According to him she said "I've got something for your ass" when she went to get her gun.

If someone had threatened then attempted unlawful imprisonment on me, you're damn skippy I'm going to defend myself, with a gun if I've got one.

And would you be coming for seconds after being out on bail?

All the rest of your extraneous BS matters not.

If she was only there (in his house) to pick up her stuff why did she put her car in the garage? If she put the car in the garage she must have unlocked it - so why could she not do it again? Those questions are hardly BS or extraneous.
If she lied about not being able to open the garage door that would mean that she went back with the express purpose of threatening him with a gun. Given her later behavior I find that very believable.

 

[ZiprHead]

Do you know that for a fact or are you just guessing?

He was between her and the door and he was not going to let her leave.

According to her. According to him she said "I've got something for your ass" when she went to get her gun.

If someone had threatened then attempted unlawful imprisonment on me, you're damn skippy I'm going to defend myself, with a gun if I've got one.

And would you be coming for seconds after being out on bail?

All the rest of your extraneous BS matters not.

If she was only there (in his house) to pick up her stuff why did she put her car in the garage? If she put the car in the garage she must have unlocked it - so why could she not do it again? Those questions are hardly BS or extraneous.
If she lied about not being able to open the garage door that would mean that she went back with the express purpose of threatening him with a gun. Given her later behavior I find that very believable.

You are right. I don't know for a fact the front door leads into the kitchen. I've never in my fifty-plus years of my life seen such a residence so I just assumed. Do you have evidence that, even though extremely unlikely, the front door enters into the kitchen? If so, then, gee, you've got me.

And again, the rest of the extraneous bullshit you are coming up with matters not.

 

[Playball40]

Why was her car in the garage in the first place?

He knew she could not leave through the garage: it was locked at the time.

If she put the car in the garage she would have had the key or the transmitter. She herself claimed the door was malfunctioning but the police found no evidence of that.

Hers: She figured out she could not leave through the garage. She thought the garage door was not operational. She retrieved the gun to get him to back off so that she could leave through another exit. She had left her phone in the house and could not call for help.

When she reentered the house why didn't she leave by the front door then? And if he is such a threat that she needed a gun during an argument, why did she come to his house without somebody else?

There are multiple scenarios that could explain why later the door was operational.

Like for example that she was lying.

His original deposition supports her story: she could not exit through the garage and she fired up, not at him.

Too bad (for her) that it doesn't support physical evidence of the bullet hole. Also his initial statements to the 911 operator do not support the later, sanitized story.

He changed his story--very dramatically, not with small details but dramatically. Also in the 911 call he mentions his son (singular). Later the allegation is that two sons were present and near him when she fired the gun.

Meaning exactly what? That he swallowed an "s" while still in shock of being shot at or that it's a elaborate ruse to get her charged with another count even though the other son wasn't there?

We also know that he has allegations of domestic assault filed against him from multiple individuals, including Alexander, who was put in the hospital because of his abuse.

When was Marissa put in hospital because of his abuse?

It is clear to me that Gray abused Alexander multiple times. It is also clear to me that he is known to be a liar. The entire story hinges on who is now telling the truth. I find her story more credible, simply because he has changed his story dramatically and has demonstrated his willingness and ability to lie under oath.

They are both abusers. They are both liars.
Take the incident that happened when she was released on bail and went to his house and attacked him. Needless to say, initiating any contact with Grey was against the conditions of her bail, not just assault and battery. The police report makes for interesting reading.
For example

I met with the suspect approximately one hour at a nearby location after speaking with her on the phone. On the phone she was hesitant to meet with me and stated that she did not understand what this was about and that she had an alibi.

Later she admitted to going there but said that he attacked her (however, he was injured but she wasn't).

On the way to the jail the suspect stated that she felt light headed and became unresponsive. [..] her vitals were fine. I also observed that there was a small cut under the suspect's eye that was not there prior to her being placed in my back seat and being transported.

So quite a liar and a performance artist who is willing to feign a medical emergency and injure herself to make it look as if she was the victim rather than the perpetrator.

Of course, RavenSky will say that this whole incident is just a figment of MRAs' imaginations.


I find his story that he was just trying to help his ex avoid prison credible. He would not be the first DV victim to change his story to help his significant other.

She had spent the night at the house and had had breakfast with her husband and his kids. THAT is why her car was in the garage. After breakfast she was showing him pictures of their baby (who was days old and still in the hospital) and while she was in the bathroom he snooped through her texts, decided he was pissed and started beating her.

 

[Derec]

You are right. I don't know for a fact the front door leads into the kitchen. I've never in my fifty-plus years of my life seen such a residence so I just assumed. Do you have evidence that, even though extremely unlikely, the front door enters into the kitchen? If so, then, gee, you've got me.

Not a front door, but many houses have a back door through the kitchen. It's very common. But that's not what I meant. I was asking if you know that the passageway in question was her only route to the front door? For example, the garage could be communicating with the living room as well. There are all kinds of different layouts houses can have you know.

And again, the rest of the extraneous bullshit you are coming up with matters not.

It matters a great deal. If she was able to leave through the garage it invalidates her whole story.
If she parked her car in the garage because she wanted to stay at the house (despite it being his house) it would shine a different light on the argument/confrontation.

 

[Derec]

She had spent the night at the house and had had breakfast with her husband and his kids.

Well that's one question answered (although a link would be good because my understanding was that she was just there to pick up some of her stuff and that he happened to come home while she was still there). However, if he was such an abusive piece of shit why did she spend the night with him? She isn't unattractive , I am sure she could have had other options (although by all accounts she is well below the line on the hot-crazy graph)

And did she go to his house again (while out on bail) expecting another booty call or did she premeditate her attack?

 

[ZiprHead]

Not a front door, but many houses have a back door through the kitchen. It's very common. But that's not what I meant. I was asking if you know that the passageway in question was her only route to the front door? For example, the garage could be communicating with the living room as well. There are all kinds of different layouts houses can have you know.

And again, the rest of the extraneous bullshit you are coming up with matters not.

It matters a great deal. If she was able to leave through the garage it invalidates her whole story.
If she parked her car in the garage because she wanted to stay at the house (despite it being his house) it would shine a different light on the argument/confrontation.

Do you know the passageway in question that you bring up even exists? Please, bring some evidence.

And the house belonged to both of them. Not that it really mattered. She wanted to leave, he would not let her and violently blocked her exit. She had every right to use force, including lethal force, to do so.

She did him a favor by not gunning him down like the piece of shit he is and walking away. That the Florida laws are as fucked up as they are does not mean justice is being carried out by locking her up.

 

[Derec]

Do you know the passageway in question that you bring up even exists? Please, bring some evidence.

I never claimed I did know the layout of his house. It was you who claimed that it was her only means of egress. I merely questioned that assumption by pointing out possibilities.

And the house belonged to both of them. Not that it really mattered. She wanted to leave, he would not let her and violently blocked her exit. She had every right to use force, including lethal force, to do so.

Of course it mattered. He was the one living there at a time, not her.

She did him a favor by not gunning him down like the piece of shit he is and walking away.

In that case she'd be guilty of murder (I thought there was a forum rule against advocating illegal behavior?), rather than aggravated assault. And what do you suggest she do with the two witnesses? Silence them as well?

That the Florida laws are as fucked up as they are does not mean justice is being carried out by locking her up.

The only thing fucked up about the Florida law is the minimum sentences. It is quite proper that assault with a firearm be prosecuted though.

 

[Toni]

Not a front door, but many houses have a back door through the kitchen. It's very common. But that's not what I meant. I was asking if you know that the passageway in question was her only route to the front door? For example, the garage could be communicating with the living room as well. There are all kinds of different layouts houses can have you know.

And again, the rest of the extraneous bullshit you are coming up with matters not.

It matters a great deal. If she was able to leave through the garage it invalidates her whole story.
If she parked her car in the garage because she wanted to stay at the house (despite it being his house) it would shine a different light on the argument/confrontation.

That's the crux of the case: was she able to leave through the garage. Her statement was that the garage door wouldn't open--it wasn't operational. HIS original deposition--given while he was under oath-- was that he knew when she went into the garage that she could not exit that way: the garage door was locked.

Later he changed his mind and said he lied to help her out.

In any case, it is clearly demonstrated that he lied: he either lied during his deposition or he lied afterwards. Her version has been fairly consistent and agrees with his statement during deposition.


There is no doubt that they had an extremely unhealthy, contentious relationship. While she was pregnant, he pushed her and sent her to the hospital, which is why she wasn't living at the house when the baby was born.

Personally, I don't understand why she went back to the house but she did. There was evidence that he assaulted her while she was in the house: the bathroom door was damaged. She left her phone behind when she tried to leave the house: she could not phone the police or a friend for help when she found herself trapped in the garage. There is no disagreement that the phone was in the bedroom, and not with her.