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The Virus - Are You Affected?

Newsom is all over the place. The lockdown is actually quite half assed and the criteria for opening up more is so stupid it matches his intelligence.

That's something pretty damn cool about the Swedish prime minister. He's a working class welder, who climbed the old fashioned way. He's not eloquent. Did not get blessed with good, looks. He's not well educated. Everything about his background suggests that he should be insecure about reaching the top in society. Yet, he's the ballsiest political leader in the world right now. At least when it comes to Corona. His stance right from the start was to let scientists decide what we do, and just shut the fuck up. Yet, maintain the trust and support of the people. For somebody like him, that is incrediblly brave. Imagine Donald Trump admitting that he doesn't know what to do. It just wouldn't happen. Instead he flails around like a lion in a cage and pouts, makes shit up. Go go Sweden

Letting the scientists decide is the worst thing to do, just look at the state of the UK and what happened after listening to Neil Ferguson. Scientists and experts provide input to policy makers but they absolutely should not be allowed to make decisions but I doubt that is what actually happened. Sounds like the prime minister of Sweden is more pragmatic than some of the corrupt and power hungry bureaucrats that run California.

The only alternative to "scientists and experts" is "people who haven't got a fucking clue".

That it has become fashionable in some circles to say "I am fed up with these elites lording it over us; We should put the idiots in charge!" is frankly as astonishing as it is terrifying.

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The solution to experts who make mistakes (and everyone makes mistakes - experts just make fewer and/or smaller ones) is to have MORE experts, with better understanding and more reliance on the science. Any given expert is also human, and subject to bias, error and emotion. But a consensus of experts is rarely badly wrong - and even when it is, it's literally impossible by definition for us to assess what part of their understanding is wrong, or what corrective actions are needed. Because to do so you need expertise - which you despise.
 
More pressure on Newsom;

The Center for American Liberty and Dhillon Law Group are representing the Professional Beauty Federation of California, salon owner Rosie Ibarra and other salon owners, in their new lawsuit against California Gov. Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Xavier Becerra, California Public Health Officer Sonia Angel, and 12 members of the State Board of Barbering and Cosmetology, for violating the civil rights, right to due process, and the constitutional right to earn a living. As California Globe reported, for nearly two months, California officials have threatened criminal prosecution for violations of the Governor’s Order. “Defendants have effectively taken away Plaintiffs’ lawful right to engage in professional state-licensed activities,” the lawsuit says. “This legal challenge seeks to curtail the Defendants’ overly broad and arbitrary orders and restore Plaintiffs’ rights to conduct their professions with appropriate and specific safeguards against the COVID-19 illness,” the lawsuit says. “Plaintiffs represent licensees who have been devastated by Defendants’ arbitrary and unclear categories (e.g. “essential” versus “non-essential”) that allow some businesses to operate while others are required to close.”

CaliforniaGlobe

Newsom is a despot, fussing over people at the beach and getting their nails done while the killing fields at the care homes doesn't get a mention.
 
Oh, ffs, they aren't the nitwits. It's those who don't care about the danger to public health who are the nitwits.
With 90 to 95% of people who contract Covid suffering next to no problems the danger to public health is minimal.

The rules for ending lockdowns are very clear,.

Rules ?! What rules ? Newsom just makes this shit up as he goes along.

And where are you getting the 90-95%?

Also, note that they are finding lasting damage in many patients.
 
Oh, ffs, they aren't the nitwits. It's those who don't care about the danger to public health who are the nitwits.
With 90 to 95% of people who contract Covid suffering next to no problems the danger to public health is minimal.
Where did you get this number? I heard 50-75% number. and 25% is a huge number, considering indications that many who survived became permanently semi-disabled.

He belongs to the Trump fan club, so he just gets to make stuff up. Even with 2 out of 5 Americans in that same club, Republicans are taking it as marching orders from the top to end the lockdowns. TSwizzle is just being a team player, and numbers like "90 to 95%" sound more convincing, because they make his personal opinion look like it isn't just pulled out of his ass. Look--there's a statistic to back it up.

Republicans are falling in line with Trump's push to reopen the economy after weeks of bipartisan support for staying-at-home, poll shows
 
Wisconsin supreme court strikes down governor's stay-at-home order
Justices say Tony Evers lacked authority to extend order through May in ruling that reopens state


Wisconsin’s supreme court struck down the state’s stay-at-home order on Thursday, ruling that Governor Tony Evers overstepped his authority by extending the order through the end of May.

The ruling reopens the state, lifting caps on the size of gatherings, allowing people to travel as they please and allowing shuttered businesses to reopen, including bars and restaurants. The Tavern League of Wisconsin swiftly posted the news on its website, telling members, “You can OPEN IMMEDIATELY!”

The 4-3 decision, written by the court’s conservative justices, also chips away at Evers’ authority to slow the spread of coronavirus and will force the Democratic governor to work with the Republican legislature as the state continues to grapple with the outbreak.

Evers issued a stay-at-home order in March and extended it in late April. Republicans asked the supreme court to block the extension, arguing that move required legislative approval.

Nearly seven out of 10 Wisconsin residents support the governor’s “safer at home” order, according to a Marquette University Law School poll. But Republican lawmakers in the state worried about the economic impacts of an extended shutdown.
 
With 90 to 95% of people who contract Covid suffering next to no problems the danger to public health is minimal.



Rules ?! What rules ? Newsom just makes this shit up as he goes along.

And where are you getting the 90-95%?

Also, note that they are finding lasting damage in many patients.

Isn’t it about 1 in 30 need hospitalization? Of course, 3% of the US is 10 million people.

Jebus! The right-wing is trying to make 10,000,000 get hospitalized, 1 million to drink the flavoraid and die. They are fucking crazy!
 
Wisconsin supreme court strikes down governor's stay-at-home order
Justices say Tony Evers lacked authority to extend order through May in ruling that reopens state


Wisconsin’s supreme court struck down the state’s stay-at-home order on Thursday, ruling that Governor Tony Evers overstepped his authority by extending the order through the end of May.

The ruling reopens the state, lifting caps on the size of gatherings, allowing people to travel as they please and allowing shuttered businesses to reopen, including bars and restaurants. The Tavern League of Wisconsin swiftly posted the news on its website, telling members, “You can OPEN IMMEDIATELY!”

The 4-3 decision, written by the court’s conservative justices, also chips away at Evers’ authority to slow the spread of coronavirus and will force the Democratic governor to work with the Republican legislature as the state continues to grapple with the outbreak.

Evers issued a stay-at-home order in March and extended it in late April. Republicans asked the supreme court to block the extension, arguing that move required legislative approval.

Nearly seven out of 10 Wisconsin residents support the governor’s “safer at home” order, according to a Marquette University Law School poll. But Republican lawmakers in the state worried about the economic impacts of an extended shutdown.

Jeezz
 
Letting the scientists decide is the worst thing to do, just look at the state of the UK and what happened after listening to Neil Ferguson. Scientists and experts provide input to policy makers but they absolutely should not be allowed to make decisions but I doubt that is what actually happened. Sounds like the prime minister of Sweden is more pragmatic than some of the corrupt and power hungry bureaucrats that run California.

What? Of everything you've said, this is the craziest. Perhaps you think we should turn leadership over to priests? They are the least informed leaders in the world. What could possibly go wrong?

Neil Ferguson was controversial in the scientific community before getting the reigns to power. His appointment was political. Not scientific. The problem was that it was not enough science informing policy. That's why Neil Ferguson was in charge. Your stance on this is dangerous and opens up for draconian measures only designed to inflate power of politicians rather than save us from the virus.
 
Here is the reality that TSWizzle's 90-95% claim comes up against:

Covid-19 infects intestines, kidneys and other organs, studies find
Well, it does not say what percentage of infected are completely or nearly asymptomatic.

Its also highly speculative. Unless you are a researcher in the field that article is worthless. It's just designed to scare people and get clicks. We shouldn't be spreading shit like that and getting articles like that more clicks
 
Here is the reality that TSWizzle's 90-95% claim comes up against:

Covid-19 infects intestines, kidneys and other organs, studies find
Well, it does not say what percentage of infected are completely or nearly asymptomatic.

Its also highly speculative. Unless you are a researcher in the field that article is worthless. It's just designed to scare people and get clicks. We shouldn't be spreading shit like that and getting articles like that more clicks

The article isn't great, but it links to the actual journal article, and you can definitely gain something by at least reading the abstract. Basically, they were able to culture the virus in bat and human intestinal organoids, essentially, in-vitro cultures grown from stem cells. They also confirmed the presence of


A novel coronavirus—severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)—emerged in humans in Wuhan, China, in December 2019 and has since disseminated globally1,2. As of April 16, 2020, the confirmed case count of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) had surpassed 2 million. Based on full-genome sequence analysis, SARS-CoV-2 shows high homology to SARS-related coronaviruses identified in horseshoe bats1,2. Here we show the establishment and characterization of expandable intestinal organoids derived from horseshoe bats of the Rhinolophus sinicus species that can recapitulate bat intestinal epithelium. These bat enteroids are fully susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and sustain robust viral replication. Development of gastrointestinal symptoms in some patients with COVID-19 and detection of viral RNA in fecal specimens suggest that SARS-CoV-2 might cause enteric, in addition to respiratory, infection3,4. Here we demonstrate active replication of SARS-CoV-2 in human intestinal organoids and isolation of infectious virus from the stool specimen of a patient with diarrheal COVID-19. Collectively, we established the first expandable organoid culture system of bat intestinal epithelium and present evidence that SARS-CoV-2 can infect bat intestinal cells. The robust SARS-CoV-2 replication in human intestinal organoids suggests that the human intestinal tract might be a transmission route of SARS-CoV-2.

That it is actually a source of transmission in the intestinal tract is speculative, because of course, the actual environment of your intestinal tract is quite inhospitable to a lot of things (and quite hospitable to others). But the finding of viral RNA in stool suggests that cells in people's intestinal tract are getting infected somehow (e.g. after it has infected other parts of your body, but maybe not the source of the infection).

They also quote a report in the NEJM on various autopsies where they detect it in various organs, and focus particularly on the kidneys.

My friend is from New Jersey, and her father recently died after getting COVID-19. He was basically on a respirator and dialysis for something crazy, like 5 weeks. It was actually a secondary infection that got him in the end. It's really sad. She never got to see him awake again. He was a relatively young man, in his early 60s I believe. But he was overweight and had diabetes.
 
Spain is moving to establish permanent basic income in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic

Spain is moving to implement a permanent basic income as a measure to help workers and families battered by the coronavirus pandemic.

Nadia Calviño, the country's minister for economic affairs, told the Spanish broadcaster La Sexta on Sunday evening that the government was planning to introduce the cash handouts as part of a barrage of policies meant to help people get back on their feet.

She said enacting basic income was "mostly aimed at families, but differentiating between their circumstances."

Calviño didn't offer a specific date as to when basic income could be rolled out in the country. But she said the government hoped it would become "a permanent instrument."
 
What? Of everything you've said, this is the craziest. Perhaps you think we should turn leadership over to priests? They are the least informed leaders in the world. What could possibly go wrong?

The so called experts and scientists are turning out to be about as much use as a gypsy reading tea leaves in the bottom of a cup. Not quite, but getting pretty close. Experts and scientists should of course be listened to but they should not be decision makers is my point.

Neil Ferguson was controversial in the scientific community before getting the reigns to power.

Neil Ferguson never had the reins of power. What he did have was major influence over the decision makers. And he was flat out wrong with his dodgy models. I believe he was known as "the master of disaster".

His appointment was political. Not scientific. The problem was that it was not enough science informing policy.

There was too much "science" Fucking spectacularly wrong science !

That's why Neil Ferguson was in charge. Your stance on this is dangerous and opens up for draconian measures only designed to inflate power of politicians rather than save us from the virus.

How do you work that out ? The politicians are already out there drunk on power, turning into little dictators and are taking draconian measures to achieve some ambiguous ever shifting goal by extending the lockdown with the incantation of "stay home save lives", "flatten the curve" or a similar incoherent catch phrase.
 
The so called experts and scientists are turning out to be about as much use as a gypsy reading tea leaves in the bottom of a cup. Not quite, but getting pretty close. Experts and scientists should of course be listened to but they should not be decision makers is my point.

Which they have been honest about, right from the start. Not to point out the obvious but scientists have been banging on about the importance to do this research since SARS. Yet, the money for the research hasn't materialised until this year. We could have had a general Coronavaccine ready by now. If we'd only funded it. But we didn't. But right now the science is well funded and by next year we'll have good strategies in place. But the important thing right now is to let the scientists do their thing.

The problem with big unknowns like what we're facing is that nobody has the data with which to make educated guesses.

Still... scientists are better than politicians at this.

Here's an interesting thing about Sweden. The various government agencies in Sweden have shut down much more than what the experts recommended them to. Swedish high schools were shut down, even though the Swedish CDC told them that they can be kept open with minimal added impact. Yet, they closed them. Why? Because they are run by politicians. Not scientists or doctors. The untrained and uneducated react with fear instead of having a cool head. Or they are completely in denial, like Trump. And Sweden is the country that has put their faith in scientists more than in any other country (with the exception of perhaps China, South Korea and Taiwan). So if even in Sweden politicians panic and do drastic and stupid things, then in places that trust scientists less, it'll be even more stupid.

His appointment was political. Not scientific. The problem was that it was not enough science informing policy.

There was too much "science" Fucking spectacularly wrong science !

Again... this is such a nuts statement. If you aren't informed by facts and reality, then wtf are you using as a guide in your life? What's the alternative to science? I'll tell you what it is... pulling shit out of your ass and blundering about blindly.


That's why Neil Ferguson was in charge. Your stance on this is dangerous and opens up for draconian measures only designed to inflate power of politicians rather than save us from the virus.

How do you work that out ? The politicians are already out there drunk on power, turning into little dictators and are taking draconian measures to achieve some ambiguous ever shifting goal by extending the lockdown with the incantation of "stay home save lives", "flatten the curve" or a similar incoherent catch phrase.


Scientists everywhere have in most cases told politicians to take it easy with the lockdown. In most countries politicians have gone overboard with the lockdown in spite of what the researchers have said. The UK is no exception. Most epidemiologists in the UK thought Ferguson was wrong, right from the start.

It's like politicians only have two settings. Do nothing, or do too much. The middle ground in between is where we need to be. They seem to struggle with this. Again... Sweden is the shining light here. As is Taiwan and South Korea.

If we listen to scientists the coronavirus lockdown will milder and less harsh. It'll be sensible and consistent. Worthless policies that exist only to make politicians look like they're doing something will be abandoned.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. You are accusing scientists of creating this mess. But fail to attribute blame where it belongs... imho.
 
The problem with big unknowns like what we're facing is that nobody has the data with which to make educated guesses.

While there are still plenty unknowns there are "knowns". We know that the vast, VAST majority of people have no problems if they contract the virus. In fact, as the testing gets rolled out, there are tens of thousands of people that have had the virus and never even knew it, no symptoms whatsoever, none. We also know who is at risk from being killed by the virus. Very old people (particularly if they are in a care facility !) and those with underlying health conditions. And the data shows that we have peaked, the curve is not only flat but is in a downward trend. So there is no need for the absurd, irrational and draconian lockdown.


Again... this is such a nuts statement. If you aren't informed by facts and reality, then wtf are you using as a guide in your life? What's the alternative to science? I'll tell you what it is... pulling shit out of your ass and blundering about blindly.

So I should be guided by the likes of Neil Ferguson ?! His predictions are neither facts or reality ! Since when are we to blindly take "science" and "experts" as the speakers of indisputable truths ? Are "experts" never wrong ? Are we never ever to question the science, take a closer look, shift and adjust when the information changes ?


I think you are barking up the wrong tree. You are accusing scientists of creating this mess. But fail to attribute blame where it belongs... imho.

Scientists, politicians and the MSM are the culprits in this sorry mess. Not necessarily in that order but that's who I blame.
 
TSwizzle said:
The so called experts and scientists are turning out to be about as much use as a gypsy reading tea leaves in the bottom of a cup.

That speaks to the PINO's incredible effectiveness in stripping all resources from the scientific and public health communities and rendering scientists unable to do anything of importance. All that remains now is to make sure that states' medical examiners, coroners and funeral homes shut the fuck up about mortality data, and the Swizzles of the world will be happy as clams - until they or their family members croak from C-19.

Funny how effective those scientists were against Ebola and H1N1 back when we had an actual leader who provided actual funding and human resources to address those problems from day one, and felt no need to boost his own ego by touting voodoo cures and pretending to know more about science than scientists.
Of course, if Obama or god forbid, Hillary was President, our Swizzles would be apoplectic and calling for impeachment because of the 700 Americans lost to Coronavirus.

obamademic.jpg
 
While there are still plenty unknowns there are "knowns". We know that the vast, VAST majority of people have no problems if they contract the virus. In fact, as the testing gets rolled out, there are tens of thousands of people that have had the virus and never even knew it, no symptoms whatsoever, none. We also know who is at risk from being killed by the virus. Very old people (particularly if they are in a care facility !) and those with underlying health conditions. And the data shows that we have peaked, the curve is not only flat but is in a downward trend. So there is no need for the absurd, irrational and draconian lockdown.
I'm happy you're not in charge. You have a weak grasp of epidemiology

So I should be guided by the likes of Neil Ferguson ?! His predictions are neither facts or reality ! Since when are we to blindly take "science" and "experts" as the speakers of indisputable truths ? Are "experts" never wrong ? Are we never ever to question the science, take a closer look, shift and adjust when the information changes ?

Neil Ferguson proves the exact opposite of what you claim. If we'd left it to science Neil Ferguson wouldn't have had the influence he had.
 
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