Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Metaphor]

The opposite general tendency I mean. Whatever your underlying nuanced positions (and I am sure you have them because I don’t think of you as a bad person, far from it) you choose to focus, in your postings at least, almost exclusively on attacking and criticising the ‘other side’. That is not imo a balanced approach, and imo not the best way.

I agree it isn't "balanced", but I don't know that an individual expressing "balanced" views is a virtue (i refer here to expressing views, what you actively choose to engage in, not whether your views are internally 'balanced'.)

For example, I think I've quite a reputation on this board (fairly, I would say) as an anti-feminist. I also have a reputation as a "misogynist", though no proof or evidence is ever furnished for the latter accusation.

Being an anti-feminist does not mean I think every view expressed by a feminist is false (although I think the basic premise of feminism and tenets of feminism is indeed false). But feminism certainly has political, social, and cultural power in the marketplace of ideas, and this marketplace could do with expression of countervailing ideas.

If somebody devoted a great deal of their resources into charity work for HIV research, nobody (nobody sane) would scream that there are more important diseases that kill more people that they should focus on (like heart disease and cancer and type 2 diabetes). Yet, on this board and in general, it seems to me, people make that kind of accusation freely and maliciously all the time.

 

[ruby sparks]

The opposite general tendency I mean. Whatever your underlying nuanced positions (and I am sure you have them because I don’t think of you as a bad person, far from it) you choose to focus, in your postings at least, almost exclusively on attacking and criticising the ‘other side’. That is not imo a balanced approach, and imo not the best way.

I agree it isn't "balanced", but I don't know that an individual expressing "balanced" views is a virtue (i refer here to expressing views, what you actively choose to engage in, not whether your views are internally 'balanced'.)

For example, I think I've quite a reputation on this board (fairly, I would say) as an anti-feminist. I also have a reputation as a "misogynist", though no proof or evidence is ever furnished for the latter accusation.

Being an anti-feminist does not mean I think every view expressed by a feminist is false (although I think the basic premise of feminism and tenets of feminism is indeed false). But feminism certainly has political, social, and cultural power in the marketplace of ideas, and this marketplace could do with expression of countervailing ideas.

If somebody devoted a great deal of their resources into charity work for HIV research, nobody (nobody sane) would scream that there are more important diseases that kill more people that they should focus on (like heart disease and cancer and type 2 diabetes). Yet, on this board and in general, it seems to me, people make that kind of accusation freely and maliciously all the time.

I hope you know that I for one agree with you up to a point regarding for example feminism, but also generally, and that I have in the past tried to say so where possible.

And my personal guess is that you are not as myopic or extreme as your posting pattern suggests, that the things you post about are merely the things that irk you in particular, because like anyone else you don’t like skew.

And you are certainly no misogynist in my opinion. I have seen nothing to suggest that.

Similarly, I partly agree at times with for example derec, and others. Because the people here whose views I do not necessarily subscribe to, do often or mostly have an element of reasonable truth in them underneath.

It just gets lost, in the rhetoric and the excessive disagreement.

I’m not saying we will all ever agree. Lol. But we could disagree a bit less (and find a bit more agreement where possible). That’s all.

 

[ruby sparks]

I agree it isn't "balanced", but I don't know that an individual expressing "balanced" views is a virtue.

Well I definitely think it has potential benefits. I would even go as far as calling it a virtue, yes. Very much so in fact.

It does not mean that disagreement can’t be expressed, or complaints made, obviously.

Though it might involve at least some more acceptance and acknowledgment of the validity, even if it’s only partial, of other’s complaints too, and the articulation of this when discussing with them.

 

[ruby sparks]

To go back to the OP.

This incident has imo been overreacted to, and I don’t just mean by the protesters and rioters.

At the same time, the ‘it’s only a matter of there being a few bad eggs in the police and there are no wider or underlying issues’ simply does not wash or stand up under detailed analysis.

For example, Loren Pechtel’s repeated claim that race is just a proxy for socioeconomics is incorrect. Sorry Loren, it just is.

The whole thing is infernally complicated. Socioeconomics is a significant, interwoven part of it all, obviously.

I would say that the underlying issues are, thankfully, a lot less severe than they used to be. That said, they still exist, structurally, even if to a relatively lesser extent than previously (recent exacerbations and the whole unfortunate, alarming ‘Trump thing’ notwithstanding). And I would say that about race and gender and other areas of life.

 

[Jokodo]

WTF? are you suggesting women are morally obliged to show solidarity with a violence-prone husband when he finally gets into trouble for his violent nature?

What evidence is there that he is "violence-prone"? He has two police shootings on his record, both justified. In one case, the perp stabbed two people and pointed a shotgun at police. In the other one, a perp who was smacking his girlfriend around went for Chauviin's gun after he barricaded himself in a bathroom and then got shot. Btw., he survived, plead guilt and says his ass still hurts.
There is no evidence I have seen that Chauvin is in any way "violence-prone" in his private life either.

There is bo evidence that he's isn't either. We don't know his wife's reasons for filing for divorce, or even when she made that decision, and maybe never will know, and it's none of our business either - yet you assume that you're competent to judge her for it??

 

[barbos]

One of the LA looters drove off on a blue car (most likely Toyota Celica ) with license plate 4TYY851 .

 

[ZiprHead]

At this point does it really matter? We should just form separate ethnostates.

So where are you going to go to set up yours?

Germany, Poland, and France, obviously.

 

[laughing dog]

Does anyone think that blacks "loiter" 16.4 times as much as whites or that blacks are "vagrant" 7.5 times as much or that they engage in disorderly conduct 8.86 times as much as whites or have marijuana in their possession 11.5 times as much as whites?

How would you know? Are you citing only your own sense of incredulity?

I picked low level crime statistics where three of the categories are open to wide discretion on the part of the arresting officer. Can you think of a rational reason why the arrest rate for loitering or vagrancy or disorderly conduct vary so dramatically by race?

It seems to me that if the statistics were about something else - like say men are twice as likely to be arrested for disorderly conduct compared to women, would you be willing to say that entire discrepancy is due to bias by the cops against men?

First, I did not say the entire discrepancy was due to bias. I said it was evidence of bias. Second, in my opinion, twice is not as glaring evidence of a problem as 7 to 16 times.

But, I would think that twice as much would indicate a possible bias as part of the explanation.

 

[ZiprHead]

"Riots are the language of the unheard." MLK Jr.

 

[barbos]

"Riots are the language of the unheard." MLK Jr.

True, and Riots are the tool of looting.

 

[ruby sparks]

For example, many feminists, although they are extremely anxious about men's violence towards women, also appear to believe that there's nothing about men that makes them more violent except "the patriarchy"--that men are socialised to be more violent and that explains all of the discrepancy. This seems to me a wholesale denial of biology, and, if not a denial of biology, an implicit assumption that socialisation is more important than biology (and that the proposed socialisation fixes are adequate and justified.

I very much agree. But this is not the thread for it.

What percentage of feminists have that view, I don’t know. Not all. More than some. It’s probably held to varying degrees by different feminists. I know some who don’t deny biology at all. I know others who do care deeply about men and men’s issues. Those sorts of feminists have in my opinion (and in the opinion of more than one prominent 70’s feminist) not been prominent enough over the last 50 years. It’s the usual story, radicals are less reticent.

This would be a derail. I’m just saying you unquestionably have a fair point, imo.

 

[ZiprHead]

George Floyd's brother says Trump didn't give him 'the opportunity to even speak' in conversation

 

[Deepak]

"Riots are the language of the unheard." MLK Jr.

True, and Riots are the tool of looting.

 

[ZiprHead]

Police Accidentally Record Themselves Conspiring to Fabricate Criminal Charges Against Protester

The ACLU of Connecticut is suing state police for fabricating retaliatory criminal charges against a protester after troopers were recorded discussing how to trump up charges against him. In what seems like an unlikely stroke of cosmic karma, the recording came about after a camera belonging to the protester, Michael Picard, was illegally seized by a trooper who didn’t know that it was recording and carried it back to his patrol car, where it then captured the troopers’ plotting.

“Let’s give him something,” one trooper declared. Another suggested, “we can hit him with creating a public disturbance.” “Gotta cover our ass,” remarked a third.

Differant protest but...

 

[ZiprHead]

SLC-MAN USES HUNTING BOW ON CROWD ...
Gets Swarmed, Car Burned

A rogue vigilante started firing arrows at protesters in Utah this weekend -- and it cost him (and his car) dearly almost instantly.

The scene was filmed Saturday in Salt Lake City, where protests and riots are in full swing right now ... as they are in many other parts of the country. Apparently, a group of protesters had blocked off the road somewhere there in town, and one man had had enough.

He emerged from his vehicle with a hunting bow he had on him and supposedly starting brandishing it toward the crowd ... seemingly threatening to shoot arrows at people. One woman had a brief convo with the guy, asking if he's serious ... and if he considers himself American. He says he does, and then appears to start actually firing at some folks.

It looks like one person might've been hit as they fell to the ground, and when the man turned and tried shooting at some more people ... he got bum-rushed with a BUNCH of bodies, who proceeded to beat his ass and take him to the ground.

The same man was videoed prior to this brandishing a machete.

Then he lies on a televised interview: "Two black african americans beat me through my open window..."

 

[Toni]

SLC-MAN USES HUNTING BOW ON CROWD ...
Gets Swarmed, Car Burned

View attachment 27981

A rogue vigilante started firing arrows at protesters in Utah this weekend -- and it cost him (and his car) dearly almost instantly.

The scene was filmed Saturday in Salt Lake City, where protests and riots are in full swing right now ... as they are in many other parts of the country. Apparently, a group of protesters had blocked off the road somewhere there in town, and one man had had enough.

He emerged from his vehicle with a hunting bow he had on him and supposedly starting brandishing it toward the crowd ... seemingly threatening to shoot arrows at people. One woman had a brief convo with the guy, asking if he's serious ... and if he considers himself American. He says he does, and then appears to start actually firing at some folks.

It looks like one person might've been hit as they fell to the ground, and when the man turned and tried shooting at some more people ... he got bum-rushed with a BUNCH of bodies, who proceeded to beat his ass and take him to the ground.

The same man was videoed prior to this brandishing a machete.

You should have quoted the part where he gets swarmed and his car gets turned over and burned. That's the best part.

I take it back: The best part is this:

That's not where the story ends though for this sap -- according to the woman who shot this, SLC PD retreated and allowed protesters to light the guy's car on fire -- which was captured on video as well. According to her, the guy was taken into custody in the end.

 

[ruby sparks]

What is it that he shouts near the start of the video after the woman asks him if he calls himself an American?

 

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/ftLzQefpBvM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ruby sparks]

Whatever you have just posted, ziprhead, I can’t see it on my phone for some reason, unfortunately.

 

[ZiprHead]

Minneapolis Police Union President Allegedly Wore a “White Power Patch” and Made Racist Remarks
Lt. Bob Kroll’s brash leadership and influence over police department culture are in the spotlight.

The Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis union became powerful in the 1970s, after one of its former leaders, Charles Stenvig, was elected mayor. Kroll became president of the union in 2015. Today, protesters and other activists in the city say the union, not the police chief, holds the most sway over officers and their behavior on patrol. “The only authority they respect is Police Federation President Bob Kroll,” Tana Hargest, a Minneapolis-based artist and activist, tweeted a day after Floyd’s death. “[T]here’s nothing our elected representatives can or will do to bring them to heel.”

Through a series of controversies over the years, Kroll has been a staunch defender of the police. In 2015, after two white officers shot 24-year-old Jamar Clark in the head, Kroll spoke on television about Clark’s “violent” criminal history; later, when the officers were cleared of wrongdoing, he referred to Black Lives Matter as a “terrorist organization,” according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

In 2007, Kroll also referred to former US Rep. Keith Ellison, who is Muslim and Black and has pushed for criminal justice reforms, as a terrorist, according to a lawsuit filed by now–Police Chief Medaria Arradondo alleging racism within the police department. The lawsuit accused Kroll of wearing a motorcycle jacket with a white-power patch sewed into the fabric, and said he had “a history of discriminatory attitudes and conduct.” He has told reporters he was part of the City Heat motorcycle club, some of whose members have been described by the Anti-Defamation League as displaying white supremacist symbols. Kroll did not respond to a request for comment but has denied the allegations in the past.