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Boy Scouts of America decision to admit girls starts 'highly damaging' recruitment war, Girl Scouts say

 
 
 
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12...scouts-in-escalating-recruitment-war/13017010

The Girl Scouts of America says the Boy Scouts of America's decision to allow girls to join has led to a "highly damaging" recruitment war, marketplace confusion and some girls unwittingly joining the wrong organisation.


Last month, lawyers for the Boy Scouts asked a judge to reject claims that the Boy Scouts cannot use "scouts" and "scouting" in its recruitment of girls without infringing trademarks.


They called the lawsuit "utterly meritless."


The Boy Scouts pointed to legal arguments in which it blames the Girl Scouts for reacting to its expansion plans with "anger and alarm" and said the Girl Scouts launched a "ground war" to spoil plans by the Boy Scouts to include more girls.


In a statement, the Boy Scouts said it expanded program offerings for girls "after years of requests from families" who wanted their boys and girls both participating in its character and leadership programs or for other reasons, including a desire to become an Eagle Scout.


"We applaud every organisation that builds character and leadership in children, including the Girl Scouts of the USA, and believe that all families and communities benefit from the opportunity to select the programs that best fit their needs," the statement said.


In its filing, the Girl Scouts said the Boy Scouts' marketing of expanded services for girls was "extraordinary and highly damaging to Girl Scouts" and had set off an "explosion of confusion".


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Forbes has a bit more about the legal merits (or not) of the Girl Scouts lawsuit:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonyma...a-lesson-about-trademark-law/?sh=5f4b5b9f7386

Now that the Boy Scouts have accepted girls into all their programs, the Girl Scouts say that the Boy Scout’s use of the non-gender specific words “Scouts” or “Scout” threatens to diminish the value of the Girl Scout trademarks. Girl Scouts of the United States of America say that they own a trademark on the word “Scout” when used to refer to programming for girls; and the Boy Scout’s use of that word to advertise their new programming for girls is likely to cause confusion for consumers.

They may have a point—a claim for trademark infringement under federal law only requires proof that the Girl Scouts own the mark; and that the Boy Scout’s use of the mark is likely to cause confusion. The Girl Scout’s lawsuit says that both the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts have historically acknowledged respective ownership of the word: “Scouts” when used in different contexts. And one can readily see that a poster advertising “Scout signups – all genders welcome” put up by a local Boy Scout affiliate could cause confusion for people interested in signing up for Girl Scouts.
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Perhaps the Girl Scouts could use the massive influx of girls into Boy Scouts as a learning opportunity: what is it that Boy Scouts is offering that Girl Scouts is not? But, I suspect it will not do that.
 
Strange. I was in the scouts as a child up until I was old enough to join the air cadets. By the time I left (twenty-four years ago?), a number of troops had girls as members. I remember the Sea Scouts had female members before that. For the most part, boys joined scouts (may have been called Boy Scouts back then) and girls joined Girl Guides, but the activities were quite different. it wasn't a surprise girls wanted to join the scouts if their interests were more in line with camping and being outdoors. I'm sure there were boys who would have preferred girl guides in terms of activities as well, but it was the 80s and 90s--a time when most of us grew up with the unfortunate sensibilities of burying that shit deep inside and then stfu about it. I wouldn't be surprised if both organizations were more closely aligned in terms of activities these days. But then that was always something which varied considerably troop by troop as it was.

The name thing is unfortunate in the US. If they had been the Girl Guides as they are named in a number of other nations, it would be less of an issue. But I'd think 'Girl Scouts' is adequately distinct from 'Scouts'. Then again, maybe that's just because I grew up always knowing about scouting groups so I can't appreciate the perspective of people who are looking to enrol their children yet are far less familiar with scouting organizations.
 
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
 
Jarhyn said:
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
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What a fucked up, ignorant dismissal. GS teaches skills like leadership and problem solving, not just whatever patronizing bullshit you've pulled out of your ass.

If there's any criticism for GS in this, it's that they are wasting their energy paying any attention at all to the Boy Scouts. Who fucking cares? Continue your work empowering girls. One way of doing that is to teach them not to react to testerical boys.
 
I was in the Australian Boy Scouts in the late 80's. There were girls albeit not many, and Girl Guides. We even had women pack leaders. It's been decades and the world hasn't ended yet. Calm the fuck down.
 
Jarhyn said:
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
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Girl Scouts targets some similar targets some different than Boy Scouts. The larger trouble for Girl Scouts is it was managed into the ground by idiots.

Boy Scouts is targeting girls now in large part because the intolerant Mormons dropped out due to the Boy Scouts no longer demonizing homosexuality. So that was a large group of membership that evaporated.
 
Angry Floof said:
Jarhyn said:
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
Click to expand...

What a fucked up, ignorant dismissal. GS teaches skills like leadership and problem solving, not just whatever patronizing bullshit you've pulled out of your ass.

If there's any criticism for GS in this, it's that they are wasting their energy paying any attention at all to the Boy Scouts. Who fucking cares? Continue your work empowering girls. One way of doing that is to teach them not to react to testerical boys.
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These scouting organizations were one of the birthplaces of gendered expectations.

I'm not going to apologise for pointing that out, as it gave parents more ammunition for enforcing those destructive gender roles, regardless of what else came over that carrier wave.

Instead of empowering "girls" they should empower "people", however those people are individually best empowered. But that's not what happens in small town USA, where I grew up seeing it first hand.

I participated in both organizations, first the BS (which, don't get me wrong, has its own issues), and then the GS once I left the BS and wanted to know more about GS.

It was just a Home Economics class in disguise, with conservative parents (including my own) steering the girls away from anything more rugged than a walk through the park.

Then, I experienced both organizations in the late 80's and early 90's, when the primary drama about the BS and the molestation stuff really started hitting the fan, and when they started talking about letting in boys.

All scouting is supposed to teach "leadership and problem solving", and few organizations are even prepared well to do that much, no matter which org you look at.

If they think they aren't getting enough of the scouting market share, they need to improve that image. It may not be a facet of the org you ever encountered, but it is absolutely there. People need to see it as, and the organization needs to actually be be, something where people won't feel pigeon holed into being "girl normal". That would mean that when girls ask for camping trips, mom (or dad, or non-binary parent/figure) needs to actually buy some boots and a tent and get dirty and live rough and let the scouts do the same. Then, it was hard enough getting that much out of the BS, for which that was supposed to be on brand.
 
Jarhyn said:
Angry Floof said:
Jarhyn said:
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
Click to expand...

What a fucked up, ignorant dismissal. GS teaches skills like leadership and problem solving, not just whatever patronizing bullshit you've pulled out of your ass.

If there's any criticism for GS in this, it's that they are wasting their energy paying any attention at all to the Boy Scouts. Who fucking cares? Continue your work empowering girls. One way of doing that is to teach them not to react to testerical boys.
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These scouting organizations were one of the birthplaces of gendered expectations.
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Yeah, they haven't changed at all since the 50s. Right.
 
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Jarhyn said:
If girl scouts can't hack it in competing for interest, maybe they need to be more fucking interesting? Just a thought.

Being able to go out, learn knots, go camping, learning how to make, paint, balance a derby car... Why would someone pick slinging cookies over that?

The fact is, girl scouts was, and is, a patronizing second-tier organization designed to distract from the fact that girls weren't allowed to join the more adventurous scouting organization for far too long
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Why am I not surprised. Look, the girls scouts do much more than "sling cookies". Here is a summary of all the badges:

https://www.girlscouts.org/en/our-program/badges.html
 
Is this frivolous bullshit by an organization to eliminate competition? Perhaps, b/c many if not most TM infringement and intellectual property claims are.

However, it should be clear that The Girl Scouts are not in any way objecting to the Boy Scouts admitting or having programs for girls.

Their objection is purely to trademark infringement, and as Forbes points out, their claim may have merit. Each organization has a Congressional approved and president-signed charter that is clearly gender specific, thus allowing both to use the word "Scouts" without infringement but only when used in the context of each gender. If a completely new organization popped up calling themselves "Scouting for Girls", would this not be a clear cut TM infringement? Well, that is the kind of marketing that the Boy Scouts are now using to recruit girls. So, the objection is that the BSA are violating their own Congressional charter by just changing their name to "The Scouts", which removes the gender specification that allowed both organizations to have a charter with the word "Scouts" without confusion or infringement. The argument is the BSA must continue to always specify "Boy" in its materials as they have for 100 years, or drop the word "Scouts" completely and use a different term to refer either to all their programs or any programs that include marketing to girls.
 
ideologyhunter said:
Wake me up when you can be atheist and be allowed in scouting.
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My Brother-in-Law is a scout master and his take on religion is it is a family thing. His job is instilling a scout code, but the religion part falls on the family, not him.
 
Scout Law states "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." Which makes this trademark infringement by the BSA rather ironic.
 
laughing dog said:
Scout Law states "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." Which makes this trademark infringement by the BSA rather ironic.
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Last I looked into the issue the BSA's application form still requires belief in a god.
 
crazyfingers said:
laughing dog said:
Scout Law states "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." Which makes this trademark infringement by the BSA rather ironic.
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Last I looked into the issue the BSA's application form still requires belief in a god.
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https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406.pdf

Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight
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