CPAC - the Coup Continues

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Which is why action should be taken against the woman who designed that stage. Finally you're getting it.

What are you proposing? Don't be shy.

The company and its owner, for the crime of making a Nazi symbol, should not have any social media access and should have banks refuse to do business with them. They need to be cancelled for daring to make that shape. No Facebook, Twitter, or any mainstream media. Let them use alt-tech with the rest of the Nazis, make them use bitcoin, but no mainstream access.

 

[Treedbear]

Which is why action should be taken against the woman who designed that stage. Finally you're getting it.

What are you proposing? Don't be shy.

The company and its owner, for the crime of making a Nazi symbol,

Except that, no matter who is responsible for the decision, it's neither a crime

should not have any social media access

nor is there direct evidence yet that they have established a record of intent to harm our democracy.

and should have banks refuse to do business with them.

Who's going to have the banks do that? Seems like that's usually a financial decision.

They need to be cancelled for daring to make that shape. No Facebook, Twitter, or any mainstream media. Let them use alt-tech with the rest of the Nazis, make them use bitcoin, but no mainstream access.

Good point. Now, just help us by pointing out where they violated any of those organization's TOU agreements.

 

[crazyfingers]

This thread degenerated into lalatreestumpland pages ago.

 

[Treedbear]

This thread degenerated into lalatreestumpland pages ago.

Had to google lalatreestumpland.

Did you mean: lala breast implants

 

[crazyfingers]

This thread degenerated into lalatreestumpland pages ago.

Had to google lalatreestumpland.

Did you mean: lala breast implants

It's an old family saying into silly no where.

 

[Treedbear]

Had to google lalatreestumpland.

It's an old family saying into silly no where.

Agus amhain tá sé mahogany gaspipe.

 

[JohnG]

Ah, okay. Is it left or right today that wants to identify people by their racial category and deny the individual? Maybe the modern left has such a hard-on for Nazis because they see them as fellow travelers.

I've noticed it's common for right wing thinkers to think of "Identity" as a left wing concept,

Sure. The left hasn’t been pushing racial identity politics at all. Not. At. All.

Politics is always about identity, everywhere. You don't think the southern strategy is about race politics? The Civil War? Building a wall? Muslim Ban? 2 minutes ago I just heard Sen Ron Johnson say that he never felt threatened during the insurrection because the attackers were white.

Right wingers sound pretty uninformed when they use the term identity politics.

 

[J842P]

Sure. The left hasn’t been pushing racial identity politics at all. Not. At. All.

Politics is always about identity, everywhere. You don't think the southern strategy is about race politics? The Civil War? Building a wall? Muslim Ban? 2 minutes ago I just heard Sen Ron Johnson say that he never felt threatened during the insurrection because the attackers were white.

Right wingers sound pretty uninformed when they use the term identity politics.

I mean, Trausti and you are both right. I guess you could make the case that building the wall is nationalistic. But the point stands that the right loves identity politics.

That doesn't make identity politics good. It's not much of a "gotcha".

 

[Keith&Co.]

Sure. The left hasn’t been pushing racial identity politics at all. Not. At. All.

Politics is always about identity, everywhere. You don't think the southern strategy is about race politics? The Civil War? Building a wall? Muslim Ban? 2 minutes ago I just heard Sen Ron Johnson say that he never felt threatened during the insurrection because the attackers were white.

Right wingers sound pretty uninformed when they use the term identity politics.

I mean, Trausti and you are both right. I guess you could make the case that building the wall is nationalistic. But the point stands that the right loves identity politics.

That doesn't make identity politics good. It's not much of a "gotcha".

It's not a 'gotcha' to say the right loves identity politics, same as poinying out that yhe right is bigly into cancel culture.
It's more a gotcha to say, 'you are hypocrite to point at the left as if you're not doing the very same thing, or more so.'

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The company and its owner, for the crime of making a Nazi symbol,

Except that, no matter who is responsible for the decision, it's neither a crime

should not have any social media access

nor is there direct evidence yet that they have established a record of intent to harm our democracy.

and should have banks refuse to do business with them.

Who's going to have the banks do that? Seems like that's usually a financial decision.

They need to be cancelled for daring to make that shape. No Facebook, Twitter, or any mainstream media. Let them use alt-tech with the rest of the Nazis, make them use bitcoin, but no mainstream access.

Good point. Now, just help us by pointing out where they violated any of those organization's TOU agreements.

Why are you defending people who make Nazi symbols? The local experts at "dog whistles" have made it clear there is never an accidental or innocent making of such symbols, and now you are defending people who make those symbols.

Why do you defend Nazis?

 

[Treedbear]

Except that, no matter who is responsible for the decision, it's neither a crime



nor is there direct evidence yet that they have established a record of intent to harm our democracy.

and should have banks refuse to do business with them.

Who's going to have the banks do that? Seems like that's usually a financial decision.

They need to be cancelled for daring to make that shape. No Facebook, Twitter, or any mainstream media. Let them use alt-tech with the rest of the Nazis, make them use bitcoin, but no mainstream access.

Good point. Now, just help us by pointing out where they violated any of those organization's TOU agreements.

Why are you defending people who make Nazi symbols? The local experts at "dog whistles" have made it clear there is never an accidental or innocent making of such symbols, and now you are defending people who make those symbols.

Why do you defend Nazis?

I haven't been defending anyone. I'm questioning why you are demanding some kind of action against them on the following grounds:

1. committed a crime,
2. established a pattern of being dangerous to our democracy,
3. been under investigation for bank fraud,
4. violated TOU agreements with social media platforms.

If you have some serious arguments for any of the above then lay them out. Personally, it scares me a bit that an organization such as CPAC, at the heart of one our two major parties, is administered by people who would choose to flaunt such an obvious symbol or white nationalism. But it's not an matter of free speech. We can't infringe on their right to say what they think. It's an issue of their veiled intent.

 

[Stephen T-B]

Broadcasters here in the UK invariably sought out the opinions of Trumpists when covering the nightmare madnesses of Trump's world, which I found depressing.
Then I remembered there are people - sometimes large numbers - in every population who support the unspeakable. Millions loved Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Franco and Mussolini, while fewer, but very vocal ones, supported our home-grown Fascist, Oswald Moseley.
There are Brazilians who adore Bolsonaro and Venezuelans who think Maduro is wonderful.

It is what it is...

 

[James Brown]

Broadcasters here in the UK invariably sought out the opinions of Trumpists when covering the nightmare madnesses of Trump's world, which I found depressing.
Then I remembered there are people - sometimes large numbers - in every population who support the unspeakable. Millions loved Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Franco and Mussolini, while fewer, but very vocal ones, supported our home-grown Fascist, Oswald Moseley.
There are Brazilians who adore Bolsonaro and Venezuelans who think Maduro is wonderful.

It is what it is...

I just read this today, and thought it interesting.

In summary, Britain used to have an enviable medical system, media, and a growing middle class. Not as much anymore. One reason? Nationalism.

After 2008, when UK citizens were suffering from a global recession, the UK government opted for Austerity, rather than Stimulation. The suffering only increased as the economy continued to free-fall. But after financial crises, nations tend to swing to the hard-right. Vulnerable people are susceptible to demagogues who blame the current crisis on Other People and who promise easy solutions. In the UK, the blame fell on Europeans, which led to Brexit, which led to diminished trade, half-empty shipping trucks, and surprise four-figure bills from "out-of-network" medical specialists.

 

[JohnG]

I mean, Trausti and you are both right. I guess you could make the case that building the wall is nationalistic. But the point stands that the right loves identity politics.

That doesn't make identity politics good. It's not much of a "gotcha".

It's not a 'gotcha' to say the right loves identity politics, same as poinying out that yhe right is bigly into cancel culture.
It's more a gotcha to say, 'you are hypocrite to point at the left as if you're not doing the very same thing, or more so.'

My point is that the term "Identity politics" is used by many who don't know that term applies to every subset of culture. Farmers, Housewives, Veterans, Union Workers, Qanons, whatever...

And we also know that all politics is designed to accommodate as many of these subsets as possible, and if they can't do that, they would eliminate as many as possible.

 

[Stephen T-B]

Broadcasters here in the UK invariably sought out the opinions of Trumpists when covering the nightmare madnesses of Trump's world, which I found depressing.
Then I remembered there are people - sometimes large numbers - in every population who support the unspeakable. Millions loved Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Franco and Mussolini, while fewer, but very vocal ones, supported our home-grown Fascist, Oswald Moseley.
There are Brazilians who adore Bolsonaro and Venezuelans who think Maduro is wonderful.

It is what it is...

I just read this today, and thought it interesting.

In summary, Britain used to have an enviable medical system, media, and a growing middle class. Not as much anymore. One reason? Nationalism.

An odd conclusion...Our popular press was always dishonest, our much-envied medical system had been beset by perennial funding problems for decades, but the middle class was doing OK even after the 2008 bank bust-up.

After 2008, when UK citizens were suffering from a global recession, the UK government opted for Austerity, rather than Stimulation. The suffering only increased as the economy continued to free-fall. But after financial crises, nations tend to swing to the hard-right. Vulnerable people are susceptible to demagogues who blame the current crisis on Other People and who promise easy solutions. In the UK, the blame fell on Europeans, which led to Brexit

with which I generally agree...

which led to diminished trade, half-empty shipping trucks

That was a predication, dismissed as 'Project Fear" by the pro-Brexiteers which is very likely to come to pass, but Covid is an added element and disentangling the effects of the one (Brexit) from the other (Covid) isn't straightforward. Greater clarity will no doubt emerge in the months/years ahead.

and surprise four-figure bills from "out-of-network" medical specialists.

I know nothing about that.

 

[lpetrich]

and surprise four-figure bills from "out-of-network" medical specialists.

I know nothing about that.

That seems like some American thing. US medical-insurance companies call the doctors and organizations that accept their insurance their company's "network", and they often charge more for anyone and anything "out of network".

 

[crazyfingers]

and surprise four-figure bills from "out-of-network" medical specialists.

I know nothing about that.

That seems like some American thing. US medical-insurance companies call the doctors and organizations that accept their insurance their company's "network", and they often charge more for anyone and anything "out of network".

Or out of network providers are not covered at all and you have to pay the entire bill and don't learn this until you get the bill.

My daughter fell down in her dorm room and hit her head. The EMTs said she was required to take an ambulance to the hospital to be checked out even though her dorm friend was willing to drive my daughter the whopping 1.2 miles to the ER. My daughter didn't know that she can refuse service and it turns out that the ambulance company is out of network for Aetna, my insurance.

We got a whopping $1500 ambulance bill. I consider that criminal.

 

[J842P]

That seems like some American thing. US medical-insurance companies call the doctors and organizations that accept their insurance their company's "network", and they often charge more for anyone and anything "out of network".

Or out of network providers are not covered at all and you have to pay the entire bill and don't learn this until you get the bill.

My daughter fell down in her dorm room and hit her head. The EMTs said she was required to take an ambulance to the hospital to be checked out even though her dorm friend was willing to drive my daughter the whopping 1.2 miles to the ER. My daughter didn't know that she can refuse service and it turns out that the ambulance company is out of network for Aetna, my insurance.

We got a whopping $1500 ambulance bill. I consider that criminal.

Heh. In San Francisco I ended up paying $800 *after insurance* for an ambulance ride. I think they billed something approaching $10,000.

 

[James Brown]

From the article I linked:

If you live in London, you might not know it, but you’re going to be getting American style healthcare bills soon. That’s because GP practices in London have been sold off to an American “health insurer.” That’s going to make Americans chuckle — because it’s crazy. Brits aren’t going to know what hit them when they get a bill for, say, $4000 for an X-ray. But of course that’s what’s coming, because American “health insurers” aren’t in it for human kindness, but for money. Who’s dumb enough to choose American style healthcare — despite having had the best healthcare system in the world? Britain is.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, if it weren't for American Health Care, Stephan Hawkings would have died decades before he proved blackholes were actually just really dark dark dark gray ones. (I can't find the idiot that claimed as such... about American Health Care, a politician or propagandist)