How can Derek Chauvin expect a fair trial in Minneapolis?

[Jarhyn]

Not for some on here who seem to think the video is all that is needed. I'm saying there is a lot more to it than the video.

No one here anywhere is arguing that the trial should be stopped.

I'm not saying that there is. But they are saying there is no need for further evidence as their mind is already made up.

So we can see that TSwizzle is trying to knock down a straw man that he has built. Looks easy to say, “You’re wrong! All the evidence should be heard!”
Except, of course, we can see that no one was saying the evidence should not be heard. So we can see that TSwizzle is arguing against a mirror here.

You are deliberately taking what I said from a back and forth out of context.

On the contrary, others are saying, quite clearly, that Chauvin will get a fair trial, it will all be heard. And it will include that video. And most are saying that they cannot imagine any evidence that could make that video NOT show a cop kneeling on a man’s neck, with his hands in his pockets while he hears the man say he can’t breathe, while he hears his fellow cops ask if he should let the man breathe, while he hears an EMT tell him to let the man breathe and while he sees the man become limp and then continues to kneel on his neck for another 4 minutes after than and then refuse the man care by the EMT.

We still have to hear evidence as to what other contributing factors there are to Floyd's death.

When a house collapses after someone drives their car into the side of it, it doesn't matter that the wood was a fair bit rotten. What matters is the fucking car.

It doesn't matter that something is fragile, what matters is the fact it was struck.

It doesn't matter if Floyd was fragile. Even a sturdy person would have trouble, probably be dead, after 9 minutes of suffocation.

It just means the person who was murdered also happened to be vulnerable and defenseless.

 

[TSwizzle]

{snip}
It doesn't matter if Floyd was fragile. Even a sturdy person would have trouble, probably be dead, after 9 minutes of suffocation.

It will matter.

 

[Jarhyn]

{snip}
It doesn't matter if Floyd was fragile. Even a sturdy person would have trouble, probably be dead, after 9 minutes of suffocation.

It will matter.

You WISH it matters. Maybe it's enough to convince an idiot to ignore the fact that more than 0 minutes of suffocation is too much.

But it doesn't matter as to whether the action itself was warranted. It was not. It was deadly, known to be deadly, pointed out as deadly, indicated as deadly immedialy after said deadliness happened, and at no point was ceased

 

[laughing dog]

{snip}
It doesn't matter if Floyd was fragile. Even a sturdy person would have trouble, probably be dead, after 9 minutes of suffocation.

It will matter.

You WISH it matters. Maybe it's enough to convince an idiot to ignore the fact that more than 0 minutes of suffocation is too much.

But it doesn't matter as to whether the action itself was warranted. It was not. It was deadly, known to be deadly, pointed out as deadly, indicated as deadly immedialy after said deadliness happened, and at no point was ceased

Legally, if the compression of Mr. Floyd's neck contributed to his death, it doesn't matter about Mr. Floyd's health at the time. Mr. Floyd's health matters in the sense that it makes it more difficult to trace the cause(s) of his death.

 

[southernhybrid]

The trial is now in recess until Monday, but the last witness seemed to agree that what Chavin did to Floyd was well beyond necessary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/02/derek-chauvin-trial-live/

An emotional week of testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin concluded Friday with Lt. Richard Zimmerman, the most senior officer in the Minneapolis Police Department, rejecting the former officer’s use of force against George Floyd, calling it “uncalled for” and “totally unnecessary.” Zimmerman testified that once someone is handcuffed, “they are not a threat to you at that point” and the amount of force should be immediately reduced. “If your knee is on a person’s neck, that could kill him,” he testified.

During cross-examination, Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, mentioned that his client kneeling on Floyd’s neck was a practice he called “holding for EMS” because “they are more capable to deal with whatever the situation is.”
Nelson argued that sometimes people are held in a restrained position until paramedics arrive on the scene to administer medical treatment.
When prosecutors had their turn to question Zimmerman, the lieutenant confirmed that just because police are “holding for EMS,” it does not excuse an officer from providing medical attention to someone in custody.

 

[Gospel]

Yeah I've been struggling to express this cleanly: just because the verdict is already known does not make it an unfair trial. The question is "does the evidence show you did it?" And the answer to that CAN be an absolute "YES".

Except all the evidence hasn't been heard yet. Until all the evidence has been presented and closing arguments heard, the accused should be presumed innocent. You would be excused from jury duty.

Look at these WLM protesters vandalizing this discussion board just to stand up for an obvious criminal.

 

[TSwizzle]

Yeah I've been struggling to express this cleanly: just because the verdict is already known does not make it an unfair trial. The question is "does the evidence show you did it?" And the answer to that CAN be an absolute "YES".

Except all the evidence hasn't been heard yet. Until all the evidence has been presented and closing arguments heard, the accused should be presumed innocent. You would be excused from jury duty.

Look at these WLM protesters vandalizing this discussion board just to stand up for an obvious criminal.

I’m not standing up for or defending Chauvin, he’s a lowlife scumbag and he’ll get what’s coming to him. I’m just not condemning him for murder until all the evidence has been presented.

 

[Gospel]

Yeah right, BLM protesters make the same argument. They say they are only standing up for people who didn't deserve to be given the death penalty before trial yet many of the folks killed were lowlife scumbags. You're not fooling me no sirree.

 

[Toni]

The trial is now in recess until Monday, but the last witness seemed to agree that what Chavin did to Floyd was well beyond necessary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/02/derek-chauvin-trial-live/

An emotional week of testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin concluded Friday with Lt. Richard Zimmerman, the most senior officer in the Minneapolis Police Department, rejecting the former officer’s use of force against George Floyd, calling it “uncalled for” and “totally unnecessary.” Zimmerman testified that once someone is handcuffed, “they are not a threat to you at that point” and the amount of force should be immediately reduced. “If your knee is on a person’s neck, that could kill him,” he testified.

During cross-examination, Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, mentioned that his client kneeling on Floyd’s neck was a practice he called “holding for EMS” because “they are more capable to deal with whatever the situation is.”
Nelson argued that sometimes people are held in a restrained position until paramedics arrive on the scene to administer medical treatment.
When prosecutors had their turn to question Zimmerman, the lieutenant confirmed that just because police are “holding for EMS,” it does not excuse an officer from providing medical attention to someone in custody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/ketamine-minneapolis-police.amp.html

FWIW, Minneapolis police use Ketamine to subdue suspects. It can induce hallucinations and should only be used in a medical setting. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/302663

 

[Elixir]

FWIW, Minneapolis police use Ketamine to subdue suspects.

Niggle (from link)

Minneapolis police officers asked emergency medical workers dozens of times over three years to inject suspects and others with the powerful anesthetic ketamine

I was afraid they were going hog wild with it themselves...

 

[Jarhyn]

The trial is now in recess until Monday, but the last witness seemed to agree that what Chavin did to Floyd was well beyond necessary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/02/derek-chauvin-trial-live/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/ketamine-minneapolis-police.amp.html

FWIW, Minneapolis police use Ketamine to subdue suspects. It can induce hallucinations and should only be used in a medical setting. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/302663

Two things: nobody should be ever given ketamine against their will. But you are also blowing it's use out of proportion.

As drugs go, it's pretty safe on all fronts.

 

[Toni]

FWIW, Minneapolis police use Ketamine to subdue suspects.

Niggle (from link)

Minneapolis police officers asked emergency medical workers dozens of times over three years to inject suspects and others with the powerful anesthetic ketamine

I was afraid they were going hog wild with it themselves...

I’m personally appalled that police are able to ask that ketamine be administered to suspects.

 

[Rhea]

Yeah right, BLM protesters make the same argument. They say they are only standing up for people who didn't deserve to be given the death penalty before trial yet many of the folks killed were lowlife scumbags. You're not fooling me no sirree.

Indeed.

 

[TSwizzle]

Two things: nobody should be ever given ketamine against their will.

Unless it's a "vaccine" of course.

 

[Jarhyn]

Two things: nobody should be ever given ketamine against their will.

Unless it's a "vaccine" of course.

Ketamine is not a vaccine. It is a mind altering dissociative drug that can make people feel as if their current experience is infinite and timeless, and when that experience experience is demonstrably awful, it makes it infinitely and timelessly worse.

This is not true in general for vaccines.

 

[Derec]

Most people have unconscious biases, most of those are against African Americans, and in favor of police.

There are also those with conscious or unconscious biases against police. The jury is, btw., disproportionally black given that only 9% of the Hennepin County population is black.

 

[Derec]

Yes, but it is a mistake based on ignorance to think that those suburbanites share the same fears about violence in Minneapolis as you do.

Maybe. Maybe not. You disagree, but that does not mean you are right about them.

Your fear is not evidence, no matter how many times you repeat your feelings.

You can dismiss it as "fear" (as if fear wasn't necessary for survival!) but it is based on actual violence visited upon the Twin Cities over a good portion of the past year.

 

[Toni]

Most people have unconscious biases, most of those are against African Americans, and in favor of police.

There are also those with conscious or unconscious biases against police. The jury is, btw., disproportionally black given that only 9% of the Hennepin County population is black.

13.8 percent of Hennepin county is black, according to the latest US census figures:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/hennepincountyminnesota

Minneapolis is 19.2 percent black.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/minneapoliscityminnesota

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes, but it is a mistake based on ignorance to think that those suburbanites share the same fears about violence in Minneapolis as you do.

Maybe. Maybe not. You disagree, but that does not mean you are right about them.

Your fear is not evidence, no matter how many times you repeat your feelings.

You can dismiss it as "fear" (as if fear wasn't necessary for survival!) but it is based on actual violence visited upon the Twin Cities over a good portion of the past year.

Yet you do not live here. LD does. I do. You. Do. Not.

I would say that Derec is about ten orders of magnitude more afraid.

And then he describes 'violence'. The vast majority of violence I'm aware of has all been at the hands of police and MAGA.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, but it is a mistake based on ignorance to think that those suburbanites share the same fears about violence in Minneapolis as you do.

Maybe. Maybe not. You disagree, but that does not mean you are right about them.

True, but it doesn't mean I am wrong. Of course, since I am pretty familiar with that area, and have friends and family there, it might mean I actually have a bit of a clue.

You can dismiss it as "fear" (as if fear wasn't necessary for survival!) but it is based on actual violence visited upon the Twin Cities over a good portion of the past year.

Really - you have actual evidence as to what portion of the violence visited on Twin Cities over the past year was cause by #BLM , other groups or as a reaction to police violence?