Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[Toni]

I took my first first aid course in Girl Scouts when I was 12. We learned how to stop massive bleeding. I tiopk more extensive first aid courses while I was in high school and again, we learned techniques to stop massive bleeding. Also for university credit and you guessed it: we learned techniques for stopping massive bleeding. They don't always work but you know what never works? Doing nothing. Every single time.

If I was a 12 year old playing in the park with a toy gun and people, even--no, especially cops started yelling at me to drop my weapon, I would have no idea who they were talking to. It also seems this child was attempting to comply: he reached to pull a toy gun from his waist band. In the two seconds it took between cops screaming and being shot dead I guess he just wasn't fast enough or sufficiently compliant to avoid being murdered by the people who were supposed to protect him.

How fast is your reaction time when surprised by orders to drop the weapon you are not carrying? Do you deserve tone dead ?

 

[Arctish]

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

Especially when you're a 12 year old kid given 2 seconds to understand that the cops who just came to a screeching halt in front of you and are now shouting at you will kill you if you so much as twitch in surprise.

 

[Toni]

Somehow the next two police officers on the scene knew what to do, even if you would not have, but perhaps you are not a trained first responder as the police are. They administered aid. But it was too late.

As they taught us at the Red Cross, the first minutes are crucial.

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

The child had 2 seconds, total, before he was murdered.

So which was he supposed to do: do what the cops screamed at him to do immediately or to move slowly? Because it is impossible to do both.

Even you, days later and from the luxury of the room where you are using the internet to post on this forum cannot work out which he should do because those two things directly contradict one another. And no one is screaming at you and you already know the entire set up. You aren't being screamed at, or shot at.

What was a 12 year old boy supposed to do to identify himself as a child? Borrow Ralphie's bunny pjs? The caller to 911 identified the person as a probable juvenile and that the 'gun' was probably a toy. So it wasn't the case that this child was so threatening and scary that everyone was sure it was some big bad black adult male who was trying to shoot up the park with his toy gun. Even though there were no shots being fired and the caller identified the person as a probable child with a probable toy gun.

Sadly, I predict that by Christmas, we will have cops killing a 6 year old or younger black child. And that some on this board will defend the cops.

 

[Nexus]

This isn't evidence of anything. You can't see what the guy did. If you're challenged to put the knife down and come at the cop of course they're going to fire.

He was deaf, walking down the street not bothering anyone. It was the cop that created the situation by going towards him barking orders then killing the man. There was no emergency, no gunman mass murdering people and no good judgement from the cop that day either.

 

[Nexus]

They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

No they don't. They're not even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs. Plenty of people have highly stressful jobs dealing with an irate, uncooperative or potentially violet public yet we don't make excuses when they attack innocent people because they're having a bad day.

 

[Arctish]

Why is it that the cops are allowed to be imperfect but a 12 year old kid isn't?

The cops drew and fired their weapons before they understood the situation. Is that acceptable? Is the standard for cops so low that we shouldn't criticize them when they needlessly shoot someone?

The 12 year old had two seconds to take in what was happening and implement a plan of action that might have defused the situation. He failed to do so. Is that unacceptable? Is the standard for children so high that anything less than perfect responses to rapidly changing situations deserves our condemnation?

 

[credoconsolans]

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

It is fucked up to think that to disobey orders while holding a gun with cops ISN'T risking getting shot.

 

[credoconsolans]

I took my first first aid course in Girl Scouts when I was 12. We learned how to stop massive bleeding. I tiopk more extensive first aid courses while I was in high school and again, we learned techniques to stop massive bleeding. Also for university credit and you guessed it: we learned techniques for stopping massive bleeding. They don't always work but you know what never works? Doing nothing. Every single time.

Hey, I did too. Guess where the wound was? In the arm or leg. Be honest, I bet yours was too.

Tourniquets, right?

Trying to stop massive bleeding in the chest when you don't have the training or equipment is risking making it worse.

- - - Updated - - -

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

The child had 2 seconds, total, before he was murdered.

So which was he supposed to do: do what the cops screamed at him to do immediately or to move slowly? Because it is impossible to do both.

Even you, days later and from the luxury of the room where you are using the internet to post on this forum cannot work out which he should do because those two things directly contradict one another. And no one is screaming at you and you already know the entire set up. You aren't being screamed at, or shot at.

What was a 12 year old boy supposed to do to identify himself as a child? Borrow Ralphie's bunny pjs? The caller to 911 identified the person as a probable juvenile and that the 'gun' was probably a toy. So it wasn't the case that this child was so threatening and scary that everyone was sure it was some big bad black adult male who was trying to shoot up the park with his toy gun. Even though there were no shots being fired and the caller identified the person as a probable child with a probable toy gun.

Sadly, I predict that by Christmas, we will have cops killing a 6 year old or younger black child. And that some on this board will defend the cops.

The 2 seconds is an exaggeration.

I can't even yell what the cops did in 2 seconds and neither did they.

- - - Updated - - -

They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

No they don't. They're not even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs. Plenty of people have highly stressful jobs dealing with an irate, uncooperative or potentially violet public yet we don't make excuses when they attack innocent people because they're having a bad day.

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

 

[laughing dog]

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

It is fucked up to think that to disobey orders while holding a gun with cops ISN'T risking getting shot.

The child was holding a toy gun. In less than 3 seconds, the police yelled at home and then killed him. The child was not pointing the toy gun at anyone. Instead of ascertaining the actual situation, the police killed him. Yes, the child acted less than perfectly. So did the trained adults. The child paid for his and their mistakes with his life over something that was not a capital offense. So, I'll add to my original observation that it is beyond fucked up to defend these particular actions by the police.

 

[ZiprHead]

What the hell is it with cops putting themselves into "deadly" situations then immediately resorting to deadly force instead of assessing the situation and contacting suspects from a much safer position? We've seen it numerous times. This incident, the guy in the WalMart, the Wilson case. It's stupid and almost always bad for the innocent suspect. If that's what they are trained to do, then their training is stupid.

 

[Toni]

Hey, I did too. Guess where the wound was? In the arm or leg. Be honest, I bet yours was too.

Tourniquets, right?

Trying to stop massive bleeding in the chest when you don't have the training or equipment is risking making it worse.

It doesn't get worse than dead. We were taught even in Girl Scouts that a tourniquet was a last resort. We learned--as 12 year olds--to elevate and or apply pressure. By the time I was in high school we learned other techniques. Try googling sucking chest wound. But the kid was shot in the abdomen. Pressure and treatment for shock should have been second nature and started immediately but it's already been established that these particular cops were incapable or unwilling to exercise good judgement. Likely any efforts (aside from giving the child a chance to respond and not shooting immediately ) would not have saved this child. But such efforts would have gone some distance towards demonstrating concern for life.
- - - Updated - - -

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

The child had 2 seconds, total, before he was murdered.

So which was he supposed to do: do what the cops screamed at him to do immediately or to move slowly? Because it is impossible to do both.

Even you, days later and from the luxury of the room where you are using the internet to post on this forum cannot work out which he should do because those two things directly contradict one another. And no one is screaming at you and you already know the entire set up. You aren't being screamed at, or shot at.

What was a 12 year old boy supposed to do to identify himself as a child? Borrow Ralphie's bunny pjs? The caller to 911 identified the person as a probable juvenile and that the 'gun' was probably a toy. So it wasn't the case that this child was so threatening and scary that everyone was sure it was some big bad black adult male who was trying to shoot up the park with his toy gun. Even though there were no shots being fired and the caller identified the person as a probable child with a probable toy gun.

Sadly, I predict that by Christmas, we will have cops killing a 6 year old or younger black child. And that some on this board will defend the cops.

The 2 seconds is an exaggeration.

I can't even yell what the cops did in 2 seconds and neither did they.

- - - Updated - - -

Watch the video. They shot before even exiting the car. Would you have been able to respond in the time between when they raced up next to the kid and when the child dropped? I would not nor would I expect anyone to do so. Now if the child had been actually firing his toy, even if it was just a toy, the cops would have had some justification. But that's not what happened.

BTW, care to respond to my inquiry about which contradictory action this child who was playing as children do should have taken?

Obey immediately (less than 2 seconds)

OR

Move slowly so as not to frighten the brave heavily armed police officers.

Which would have saved his life?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

It is fucked up to think that to disobey orders while holding a gun with cops ISN'T risking getting shot.

I sat on a jury where the prosecutor's entire case rested on your implied premise, that cops are a special class of citizen with absolute powers, and that when they yell, "jump" we are supposed to be airborne immediately asking "how high?" on the way up. We unanimously rejected this bullshit, as I hope any sane juror would.

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

I know lots of cops. If any of them did what happened here my reaction would be to tell them they're in deep fuckin' shit.

 

[Nexus]

Don't know many cops, do you? It is in the top 10 of stressful jobs.

I've trained with a few but that's irrelevant. And you need to get your rhetoric straight. You were defending their actions because because you said their job was so dangerous. Now you claiming its stress. Since your first point was incorrect its best to assume you're incorrect about this as well.

Occupational stress isn't something that can be objectively measured. At best its subjective self assessment and cops are notorious in claiming victim status after all they use it to justify themselves after they harm members of society.

 

[TacticalLoco]

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

It is fucked up to think that to disobey orders while holding a gun with cops ISN'T risking getting shot.

What is really fucked up is how badly you want the police state enacted. I guess you are afraid. So many Americans are.
Afraid to go out unarmed. Afraid every (black) kid goes out armed.
An armed law enforcement professional kills a kid with a toy gun in 2 seconds and all you say it, "He had it coming."
How fucked up is that?

 

[Cobalt]

Somehow the next two police officers on the scene knew what to do, even if you would not have, but perhaps you are not a trained first responder as the police are. They administered aid. But it was too late.

As they taught us at the Red Cross, the first minutes are crucial.

What exactly did the next cops do? Not much from what I see.

They're not EMTs. Cops have some basic first aid, but they're not capable of stopping massive bleeding.

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

I suspect that Tamir's parents taught him essentially the same thing. If you think that your 12 year old self would have behaved in a way that would have avoided being shot in this situation, I think you are being very naive.

Also, "skittish" is an acceptable term to use to describe the mental state of a partially saddle-broken colt, but is completely unworthy of a trained professional policeman.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This isn't evidence of anything. You can't see what the guy did. If you're challenged to put the knife down and come at the cop of course they're going to fire.

It's at least evidence that the cop was poorly trained and certainly unqualified. This video is just as disturbing as the other where the cops are so quick to use deadly force. If this is the best the cops have to offer than more people need to carry guns just to protect themselves from the cops.

How is it evidence of poor training?

Is it legal to walk around in public with a knife in your hand?? I wouldn't think so--thus the cop is right to challenge him.

 

[Cobalt]

It's at least evidence that the cop was poorly trained and certainly unqualified. This video is just as disturbing as the other where the cops are so quick to use deadly force. If this is the best the cops have to offer than more people need to carry guns just to protect themselves from the cops.

How is it evidence of poor training?

Is it legal to walk around in public with a knife in your hand?? I wouldn't think so--thus the cop is right to challenge him.

Yes, in general it is legal to do exactly that in most locations and situations.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

Yeah, Hollywood is *NOT* a reasonable indication of reality.

When you have anything that could be thought to be a real weapon you need to be aware that people might react as if it's real. Anyone who is too young to understand this is too young to have anything that's likely to be mistaken for a threat.

 

[laughing dog]

And as others have said, the toy wasn't identifiable as one.

Cops yelled at him and he did not do as instructed.

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

Yeah, Hollywood is *NOT* a reasonable indication of reality.

When you have anything that could be thought to be a real weapon you need to be aware that people might react as if it's real. Anyone who is too young to understand this is too young to have anything that's likely to be mistaken for a threat.

I'd say anyone who shots firsts and asks questions later is simply too dangerous to be allowed to have access to a fire arm.

 

[NobleSavage]

Those Air Soft guns look way to realistic. They are exact replicas other than the orange tip.