Did you take a class in critical race theory?

[Elixir]

The solutions disrupt key points of the dynamic: home finance, employment, criminal justice, and education.
Of course, this helps everyone in poverty to be able to finally escape it. It just happens that in the US this also solves much of the racial divide as well.

That's why Republinazis are dead set against all of it.

I took one called Understanding Prejudice and Discrimination, if that counts. Around 1996.
Note that from the poll, I am the only one.

That is not CRT, any more than teaching grade school children the truth about Founding Fathers having been mostly slave owners is CRT.
But again, the GQP wants to prevent the truth from being taught so they label it ALL "CRT".

 

[Jarhyn]

The solutions disrupt key points of the dynamic: home finance, employment, criminal justice, and education.
Of course, this helps everyone in poverty to be able to finally escape it. It just happens that in the US this also solves much of the racial divide as well.

That's why Republinazis are dead set against all of it.

I took one called Understanding Prejudice and Discrimination, if that counts. Around 1996.
Note that from the poll, I am the only one.

That is not CRT, any more than teaching grade school children the truth about Founding Fathers having been mostly slave owners is CRT.
But again, the GQP wants to prevent the truth from being taught so they label it ALL "CRT".

And this is why I believe as I do that at this stage we need to pull back on banging the drums about the problem quite so loudly and start crescendoing solutions.

Mind, none of these solutions I offer are "radical" or "authoritarian" or "sweeping".

Educational sanity, as Zoidberg passingly pointed out, is ubiquitous everywhere else.

Industrial prisons are, likewise, not a thing elsewhere.

The drug war has been "lost".

The finance industry already has "credit rating" and other geometries they can target that don't directly involve racially charged information (and which can be further regulated).

Now, there may me MORE things that need to happen. But these are clearly good, attainable goals we can talk about and move towards.

Do not let the Reactionary Right big you down in discussions of if problems exist; this is a distraction, an attempt to prevent us from ever getting to solutions for those problems.

Talk about solutions. Ask people why they do not want education to be available to all who can make use of it. Ask people why they want people to be unable to live down their pasts. Ask why people want others to be made a victim of 'criminal justice' despite not having created a victim themselves. Ask them why they believe it is right to subsequently enslave them.

 

[Copernicus]

To the extent that those on the right try to educate themselves on what real Critical Race Theory is, they get that it is about pointing out institutional oppression. Whether or not racist individuals or an impersonal system of bureaucrats brings about the oppression, there are necessarily victims. The assumption that drives the anger is that those who are not victims are then separated out as the dominant group or the "enemy". In this case, the enemy becomes white people in general.

So the argument is that using CRT to shape educational policy, whether it is taught explicitly or not, is going to drive people apart by splitting society into two groups--the people who benefit from the system and those who are harmed by it. Of course, CRT is not just about identifying winners and losers. It is just about studying ways in which a system can bring about that kind of separation. If we fail to acknowledge systemic racism as a "thing", then we can still acknowledge that there are social winners and losers and that racism has something to do with that. But the problem gets explained in terms of individual behaviors and not victims being oppressed by those "enemies" who benefit from the existing systems and institutions. The solution does not involve systemic changes. It involves dealing with the attitudes of individuals, which are notoriously difficult to change. Hence, very little progress is made to remedy the oppression, because the solution is impossible to bring about in the short term. It takes time for attitudes to change, and sometimes they hang around for generations. OTOH, systems can be dealt with more quickly by working the solution at a higher level than the attitudes and behavior of individual prejudices. Liberals like the idea of systemic solutions. Conservatives like the idea of not meddling with the status quo and letting things just evolve naturally.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Understanding systemic racism and unconscious bias and it's impacts absolutely helps me guide hiring people at work, because as I said it informs the need to sanitize resume data for racial and other indicators.

The most important thing you need to understand about it is that it's an excuse for minorities not to deal with their problems. Trying to help just perpetuates the problem.

End the drug war (racially biased police motives which are the propaganda core against people of color)

While I agree with the drug war I don't believe the police actions in it are racially motivated. What we are actually seeing is socioeconomic--it's much easier to catch a street dealer than a middle class dealer. Of course the cops go after the street dealers! There's also the issue that removing a street dealer does more about other crime than removing a middle class dealer.

End for-profit prisons (the financial motive, slavery which motivates the conflict of interest that drives the drug war)

While I do agree they should go they're not driving the drug war.

Make education freely and widely available (so that people can leave cycles of poverty and abuse that arise from a lack of education and associated career opportunities)

Definitely no!

1) Education should be affordable, not free. When you make things free you generate too much waste unless consumption is somehow self-limiting.

2) Education takes effort. This is more of a limiting factor than paying the tuition bill.

3) Education takes time. Again, more of a limit.

Ban the box (remove the enduring impacts of modern slavery).

And while you're at it wave your magic wand again and remove the effects of aging.

Regulate the real estate industry (and the finance industry in general) on all sides to legally block them from assessing factors which would be revelatory of race, specifically.

Having had two mortgages in the past I saw nothing they asked for that wasn't relevant. Things like the debt to income ratio aren't arbitrary, they're based on experience. The higher the debt to income ratio the more likely someone is to not be able to pay their bills. (Although, I will admit the second time around there was some i-dotting and t-crossing involved--checking the boxes even though the risk for them was effectively zero because of the size of our down payment.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Ban the box"? Perhaps try googling it. Why? So that you find the resources and can support the movement as you ought.

For those too lazy, however: it is banning the "have you ever been convicted?" Or "have you been convicted in the past x years" boxes offered on employment questionnaires. If we re to accept that "revenge punishments" are to be levied, then we must accept that they have paid the entirety of that debt wen they have completed this revenge punishment. People must be allowed to live down their past.

So the rapist should be allowed to come into your house as a repairman?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Anything outside of the core... Badly stated and mea culpa. But, do you ask loan applicants for a residential history?
Do you ask them for their name?
Do you ask them about their educational attainment?
Do you ask them their current address?
Do you ask them anything about their educational history?

"<North Minneapolis> high school" vs "<wealthy Minneapolis suburb> high school" can be used by the fool to infer a lot about very little.

Each of these things can contain "hints" which inform people of irrelevancies that are processed "racially".

The fact that you don't see the reality of the leverage that has existed in such information is exactly the reason Diversity courses exist today.

You simply assume they are processing them racially--but the evidence says otherwise.

I've been asked zero questions about education on any form of loan application--mortgage, car or credit card. Mortgage they check the information they're given, car IIRC they asked about income and employer, credit cards they just check the credit report. Education is for job applications.

They have to have a name to pull a credit report. They have to have an address to send information to--note that it doesn't actually have to be your residence. Long ago my parents got a mortgage using my uncle's address for the paperwork--because that's all we had. (Voluntarily "homeless", when we got back they bought instead of renting again.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Heres the dynamic: black kids are born into poverty; this poverty instantiates in education in an impoverished district; this educational provenance creates an inability to access higher education, either through artificially poor test scores (scores representing not their ability to learn but their opportunities of the past) or through an inability to afford college at all;

Test scores measure how much you have learned. Whether you have the ability to do better or not has no bearing on whether you're university material. Catch up first before you go jumping in way over your head! Look at it as a prerequisite--you get into a class without the prerequisites and you're probably going to learn little. The solution isn't to dismiss the class as impossible, the solution is to learn the preceding material first.

this results in desperation and continued poverty at below-subsistence wage jobs; this forces criminal "side hustle"; this generates a school-prison pipeline; the box then makes this state "sticky"; in the interim, this creates actuarial realities wherein the causation-correlation conflation is given legs; an intersection of subconscious CCC and active racism and the box then keeps people below threshold to build equity and generational wealth; children are had in this environment; repeat.

Except crime is cultural, not caused by poverty. We have had communities with very high poverty rates and very low crime rates.

The drug war factors in as it is the mechanism that converts side-hustle into "prison bait".

Note that ending the drug war will also end that side hustle.

The solutions disrupt key points of the dynamic: home finance, employment, criminal justice, and education.

Of course, this helps everyone in poverty to be able to finally escape it. It just happens that in the US this also solves much of the racial divide as well.

Poverty is mostly a mental state and can only be escaped by the people understanding this and changing their approach.

 

[laughing dog]

Poverty is mostly a mental state and can only be escaped by the people understanding this and changing their approach.

There are many factors causing poverty - no one who is actually involved in studying poverty or working to alleviate it subscribes to your handwaved mostly a mental state" analysis. For example, the World Bank estimates

Global extreme poverty rose in 2020 for the first time in over 20 years as the disruption of the COVID-19 pandemic compounded the forces of conflict and climate change, which were already slowing poverty reduction progress. About 120 million additional people are living in poverty as a result of the pandemic, with the total expected to rise to about 150 million by the end of 2021.

Half of the poor are children. Women represent a majority of the poor in most regions and among some age groups. About 70 percent of the global poor aged 15 and over have no schooling or only some basic education.

Almost half of poor people in Sub-Saharan Africa live in just five countries: Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Tanzania, Ethiopia, and Madagascar.

More than 40 percent of the global poor live in economies affected by fragility, conflict and violence, and that number is expected to rise to 67 percent in the next decade. Those economies have just 10 percent of the world’s population.

About 132 million of the global poor live in areas with high flood risk.

(https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/poverty/overview)

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's just theatre. These progressive left progressive extremists have no solutions. It's all just descriptions of problems and policing word usage. I think they're so hung up on symbolism that they're hampering real progress. Aggressively policing what words and terms are used isn't going to solve shit.

It isn't supposed to solve the problem. It is to make people aware that there is a problem that has been enduring well after the Civil War and well into the 1980s, some of it intentional other parts self-perpetuating out of sight and we have countless consequences that exist today due to this.

You seem to be unaware, yourself, that there are Americans that don't think there is a problem.

I live in Scandinavia. Even I know it's an enduring problem. You'd have to be an absolute moron not to understand that slavery, later segregation and racist laws create structural oppression that perpetuates in the culture well after those laws are removed. You'd have to be so stupid that I doubt anybody is that stupid.

I think it's more likely that it's down to miscommunication. I think the wokes don't understand what conservatives are actually saying. I think they're willfully ignorant. I think they're misrepresenting the conservatives because they'd prefer it if all conservatives were genuinely evil. That's what I did when I was a left wing teenager. It makes it a hell of a lot easier to figure out where you stand on matters. If your political opponents are made from the purest evil anything you say, no matter how badly thought through, will feel sensible.

Add to that, that a lot of people on the left are just lazy. It's increasingly the theme of modern socialism. They want money for nothing and want taxes to supply it. And every problem of structural unfairness can be solved by just giving the oppressed minority money. It doesn't work. It only acts to perpetuate the racism and makes it worse.

Socialism is about everybody all pulling together and working towards shared goals and lifting up those who need an extra hand. But everybody is putting in work and working hard.

Following the Reagan and Thatcher eras socialists read less and less Marx and more and more Foucault (as if they understand him lol). There's quite a few ways to interpret socialism. But they all have some things in common. Equality isn't the end goal of socialism. Socialisms goal is to give equal opportunity. It's to create a truly meritocratic culture where anybody, if willing, can apply themselves and climb in the social hierarchy. Or not, if that's what they want to do. It's the personal choice. It's to create a more dynamic society where your background or family doesn't matter. It's your choices and ambitions alone that matter.

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

 

[bilby]

It's just theatre. These progressive left progressive extremists have no solutions. It's all just descriptions of problems and policing word usage. I think they're so hung up on symbolism that they're hampering real progress. Aggressively policing what words and terms are used isn't going to solve shit.

It isn't supposed to solve the problem. It is to make people aware that there is a problem that has been enduring well after the Civil War and well into the 1980s, some of it intentional other parts self-perpetuating out of sight and we have countless consequences that exist today due to this.

You seem to be unaware, yourself, that there are Americans that don't think there is a problem.

I live in Scandinavia. Even I know it's an enduring problem. You'd have to be an absolute moron not to understand that slavery, later segregation and racist laws create structural oppression that perpetuates in the culture well after those laws are removed. You'd have to be so stupid that I doubt anybody is that stupid.

I think it's more likely that it's down to miscommunication. I think the wokes don't understand what conservatives are actually saying. I think they're willfully ignorant. I think they're misrepresenting the conservatives because they'd prefer it if all conservatives were genuinely evil. That's what I did when I was a left wing teenager. It makes it a hell of a lot easier to figure out where you stand on matters. If your political opponents are made from the purest evil anything you say, no matter how badly thought through, will feel sensible.

Add to that, that a lot of people on the left are just lazy. It's increasingly the theme of modern socialism. They want money for nothing and want taxes to supply it. And every problem of structural unfairness can be solved by just giving the oppressed minority money. It doesn't work. It only acts to perpetuate the racism and makes it worse.

Socialism is about everybody all pulling together and working towards shared goals and lifting up those who need an extra hand. But everybody is putting in work and working hard.

Following the Reagan and Thatcher eras socialists read less and less Marx and more and more Foucault (as if they understand him lol). There's quite a few ways to interpret socialism. But they all have some things in common. Equality isn't the end goal of socialism. Socialisms goal is to give equal opportunity. It's to create a truly meritocratic culture where anybody, if willing, can apply themselves and climb in the social hierarchy. Or not, if that's what they want to do. It's the personal choice. It's to create a more dynamic society where your background or family doesn't matter. It's your choices and ambitions alone that matter.

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

Pretty impressive for someone who'd been dead for 65 years.

Presumably you meant 1848.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I live in Scandinavia. Even I know it's an enduring problem. You'd have to be an absolute moron not to understand that slavery, later segregation and racist laws create structural oppression that perpetuates in the culture well after those laws are removed. You'd have to be so stupid that I doubt anybody is that stupid.

I think it's more likely that it's down to miscommunication. I think the wokes don't understand what conservatives are actually saying. I think they're willfully ignorant. I think they're misrepresenting the conservatives because they'd prefer it if all conservatives were genuinely evil. That's what I did when I was a left wing teenager. It makes it a hell of a lot easier to figure out where you stand on matters. If your political opponents are made from the purest evil anything you say, no matter how badly thought through, will feel sensible.

Add to that, that a lot of people on the left are just lazy. It's increasingly the theme of modern socialism. They want money for nothing and want taxes to supply it. And every problem of structural unfairness can be solved by just giving the oppressed minority money. It doesn't work. It only acts to perpetuate the racism and makes it worse.

Socialism is about everybody all pulling together and working towards shared goals and lifting up those who need an extra hand. But everybody is putting in work and working hard.

Following the Reagan and Thatcher eras socialists read less and less Marx and more and more Foucault (as if they understand him lol). There's quite a few ways to interpret socialism. But they all have some things in common. Equality isn't the end goal of socialism. Socialisms goal is to give equal opportunity. It's to create a truly meritocratic culture where anybody, if willing, can apply themselves and climb in the social hierarchy. Or not, if that's what they want to do. It's the personal choice. It's to create a more dynamic society where your background or family doesn't matter. It's your choices and ambitions alone that matter.

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

Pretty impressive for someone who'd been dead for 65 years.

Presumably you meant 1848.

ha ha, yes.

 

[ZiprHead]

Robin Steenman, the chapter head of “Moms for Liberty” in Tennessee, is raising money for a family she says has been so traumatized by “critical race theory” that a first grader requires psychological help.

The GoFundMe is asking for $5,000 because the family’s 7-year-old daughter is in treatment for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder because she was taught “critical race theory” in her first-grade class.

Steenman recently appeared on Glenn Beck’s radio show to talk about her work in her community to create hysteria around the teaching of CRT. She boasted that she’s recruited 1,100 angry parents in her community to organize for “Moms for Liberty,” a right-wing group run by conservative women who masquerade as a community mom’s organization.

Most notably, my 7 year old (first grader) (sic) has shown the most tragic changes. We went from a normal functioning, sweet child to one who will literally crumble at the slightest challenge and word,” the story explains.

“My daughter started coming home asking very pointed questions about who she is and if she is a bad person. She came home extremely upset. She told me ‘Mom, I’m white. My friend is brown. I need to apologize to him for being white because white people have done bad things to people with brown skin,'” the mother said.

She cited the “Wit & Wisdom” program used by the school that they are now working to ban at the school board level.

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/07/mother-starts-5000-gofundme-for-1st-grader-she-says-has-ocd-because-of-critical-race-theory/

Shades of Jussie Smollett.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Robin Steenman, the chapter head of “Moms for Liberty” in Tennessee, is raising money for a family she says has been so traumatized by “critical race theory” that a first grader requires psychological help.

The GoFundMe is asking for $5,000 because the family’s 7-year-old daughter is in treatment for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder because she was taught “critical race theory” in her first-grade class.

Steenman recently appeared on Glenn Beck’s radio show to talk about her work in her community to create hysteria around the teaching of CRT. She boasted that she’s recruited 1,100 angry parents in her community to organize for “Moms for Liberty,” a right-wing group run by conservative women who masquerade as a community mom’s organization.

Most notably, my 7 year old (first grader) (sic) has shown the most tragic changes. We went from a normal functioning, sweet child to one who will literally crumble at the slightest challenge and word,” the story explains.

“My daughter started coming home asking very pointed questions about who she is and if she is a bad person. She came home extremely upset. She told me ‘Mom, I’m white. My friend is brown. I need to apologize to him for being white because white people have done bad things to people with brown skin,'” the mother said.

She cited the “Wit & Wisdom” program used by the school that they are now working to ban at the school board level.

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/07/mother-starts-5000-gofundme-for-1st-grader-she-says-has-ocd-because-of-critical-race-theory/

Shades of Jussie Smollett.

I'm willing to pitch in to help the parents of that family to pay for assisted suicide. I think the best thing they can do for their daughter, and mankind, is to stop breathing.

What a hysteric

edit:

so I looked up the source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-new-civil-rights-movement/

This is basically Jihadwatch for the left.

I take back my outrage.

I'm going with fake news

 

[Jarhyn]

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/07/mother-starts-5000-gofundme-for-1st-grader-she-says-has-ocd-because-of-critical-race-theory/

Shades of Jussie Smollett.

I'm willing to pitch in to help the parents of that family to pay for assisted suicide. I think the best thing they can do for their daughter, and mankind, is to stop breathing.

What a hysteric

edit:

so I looked up the source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-new-civil-rights-movement/

This is basically Jihadwatch for the left.

I take back my outrage.

I'm going with fake news

So, rather than take a plainly verifiable claim, namely via the provenance of the GoFundMe in question, you instead just put your fingers in your ear with a poisoned well.

 

[Gospel]

Robin Steenman, the chapter head of “Moms for Liberty” in Tennessee, is raising money for a family she says has been so traumatized by “critical race theory” that a first grader requires psychological help.

The GoFundMe is asking for $5,000 because the family’s 7-year-old daughter is in treatment for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder because she was taught “critical race theory” in her first-grade class.

Steenman recently appeared on Glenn Beck’s radio show to talk about her work in her community to create hysteria around the teaching of CRT. She boasted that she’s recruited 1,100 angry parents in her community to organize for “Moms for Liberty,” a right-wing group run by conservative women who masquerade as a community mom’s organization.

Most notably, my 7 year old (first grader) (sic) has shown the most tragic changes. We went from a normal functioning, sweet child to one who will literally crumble at the slightest challenge and word,” the story explains.

“My daughter started coming home asking very pointed questions about who she is and if she is a bad person. She came home extremely upset. She told me ‘Mom, I’m white. My friend is brown. I need to apologize to him for being white because white people have done bad things to people with brown skin,'” the mother said.

She cited the “Wit & Wisdom” program used by the school that they are now working to ban at the school board level.

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/07/mother-starts-5000-gofundme-for-1st-grader-she-says-has-ocd-because-of-critical-race-theory/

Shades of Jussie Smollett.

lol awe poor little white children. If it's any consolation to the concerned mother, it's better her child wonder if they are a good person than to wonder if they are a person.

 

[Jarhyn]

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/07/mother-starts-5000-gofundme-for-1st-grader-she-says-has-ocd-because-of-critical-race-theory/

Shades of Jussie Smollett.

lol awe poor little white children. If it's any consolation to the concerned mother, it's better her child wonder if they are a good person than to wonder if they are a person.

Honestly, it's in everyone's best interest to Wonder if they are a good person. Uncertainty as to whether you are a good person may lead to angst and ennui, but certainty over such merely leads to narcissism.

This is the Tinkerbell effect acting in reverse: see also "I am most humble of all men!"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

Actually we do. Many things that have come out of the last couple of decades like the white race riots of the early 20th century weren't common knowledge. I'm sorry that it is frustrating that Scandinavian Schools have taught its children a rigorous academic history regarding African Americans in the US, compared to US schools, but the truth is, there is still stuff coming to the surface that demonstrates black history has suffered much more than Slavery->Jim Crow->Civil Rights Act. You are just going to have to handle that burden of waiting for Americans to catch up with the Swedes.

 

[Elixir]

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

Actually we do. Many things that have come out of the last couple of decades like the white race riots of the early 20th century weren't common knowledge. I'm sorry that it is frustrating that Scandinavian Schools have taught its children a rigorous academic history regarding African Americans in the US, compared to US schools, but the truth is, there is still stuff coming to the surface that demonstrates black history has suffered much more than Slavery->Jim Crow->Civil Rights Act. You are just going to have to handle that burden of waiting for Americans to catch up with the Swedes.

CRT is not about understanding that "it sucks to be black in America". It's about understanding why, and how it came to be that it sucks to be black in America.

 

[Jarhyn]

We don't don't need Critical Race Theory to understand that it sucks to be black in America. All we need to read is Karl Marx. He'd figured it out in 1948. Critical Race Theory is a dumber version of old timey classic socialism. We don't need this woke shit. It adds nothing. It's dumb. It makes all of society dumber.

Actually we do. Many things that have come out of the last couple of decades like the white race riots of the early 20th century weren't common knowledge. I'm sorry that it is frustrating that Scandinavian Schools have taught its children a rigorous academic history regarding African Americans in the US, compared to US schools, but the truth is, there is still stuff coming to the surface that demonstrates black history has suffered much more than Slavery->Jim Crow->Civil Rights Act. You are just going to have to handle that burden of waiting for Americans to catch up with the Swedes.

CRT is not about understanding that "it sucks to be black in America". It's about understanding why, and how it came to be that it sucks to be black in America.

While I couldn't give a shit about "CRT", I can say that the majority of such classes are really more about why it continues to suck to be black; the history part just is there to show the mechanics of how the cycle built itself, to reveal the existence of it's inertia.

 

[Harry Bosch]

CRT is not about understanding that "it sucks to be black in America". It's about understanding why, and how it came to be that it sucks to be black in America.

While I couldn't give a shit about "CRT", I can say that the majority of such classes are really more about why it continues to suck to be black; the history part just is there to show the mechanics of how the cycle built itself, to reveal the existence of it's inertia.

Here's the problem though: there are a lot of white people who will also claim that it really sucks to be white right now. Dosn't matter if their neighbor is doing well. They are stuck in dead in jobs with little set aside for retirement. They aren't paying attention to the nuances of this issue. They don't care about the existence of it's inertia. Any issue that creates separate groups is going to empower this group into joining the right or anyone who will pay attention to their issues.