Covid-19 miscellany

[ZiprHead]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is that ethical? I’m down with it, but is it medically ethical?

Yes, there is precedent. When the supply of lifesaving treatment is less than the supply systems to direct it to the most worthy are common. For example, when dialysis was new hospitals would have a committee to decide which patients got treatment.

Alabama is out of ICU beds. O-u-t. Perfect justice would be to ship new patients to Mar-a-Lago and chasing out the golfers and Trumpsuckers. Since that won't happen, can't the governors of the surge states issue orders that no one in the state have a heart attack or stroke? DeSantis, what are you waiting for?

This morning I read -19 ICU beds. (19 patients stuck in ERs while they were trying to provide ICU-level care.)

You don't have to be anti-vax to wonder about the possible long term side effects of a vaccine that's been rushed through the process of testing. Sure, catching 'long covid' may well be worse than possible long-term side effects of the vaccine. It seems like a balancing act using opposing sets of inadequate information.

Effects normally show up pretty quickly, though. Even if there were long term effects we would have seen them by now.

Do you have an example?

Long term effects are very rare, but I do remember when I worked as a public health nurse, giving people a list of possible long term effects that they had to read and sign before they or their children received their vaccines. I think that some of these risks have now been debunked, but I did find a list of vaccines that previously caused problems. Sometimes it was a fuck up during while the vaccine was being made.

And note that effects that show up have to be listed even if the odds are the drug in question had nothing to do with them.

 

[bilby]

Yes, there is precedent. When the supply of lifesaving treatment is less than the supply systems to direct it to the most worthy are common. For example, when dialysis was new hospitals would have a committee to decide which patients got treatment.



This morning I read -19 ICU beds. (19 patients stuck in ERs while they were trying to provide ICU-level care.)

You don't have to be anti-vax to wonder about the possible long term side effects of a vaccine that's been rushed through the process of testing. Sure, catching 'long covid' may well be worse than possible long-term side effects of the vaccine. It seems like a balancing act using opposing sets of inadequate information.

Effects normally show up pretty quickly, though. Even if there were long term effects we would have seen them by now.

Do you have an example?

Long term effects are very rare, but I do remember when I worked as a public health nurse, giving people a list of possible long term effects that they had to read and sign before they or their children received their vaccines. I think that some of these risks have now been debunked, but I did find a list of vaccines that previously caused problems. Sometimes it was a fuck up during while the vaccine was being made.

And note that effects that show up have to be listed even if the odds are the drug in question had nothing to do with them.

According to VAERS, at least one patient has died of gunshot wounds, following Covid vaccination.

Clearly, as an urgent precaution to avoid further fatalities, the vaccines should NOT be offered to military personnel, patients who live in areas with frequent gunfire, or anybody who habitually frequents firing ranges or their immediate surroundings.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Gov. DeSantis (C-19), has indicated he will be withholding funding to the school districts in the amount of the monthly salary of those on the School Boards for the counties that enacted mask mandates, unless they provide an opt-out option.

It gets better. Remember how Florida is sitting on death certificates? Well...

As part of the order, Florida's Commissioner of Education is also requiring the districts' superintendents to certify a report regarding enforcement of a mask mandate. That report should document "any instance" of enforcing the "unlawful face cover mandate policy."

That includes "instances of a student being sent home, reassigned, disciplined, suspended, isolated, stigmatized, warned or harassed because of the student's failure to comply" with the policies of the Broward and Alachua mandates, according to the order.

The report must contain the name, grade, parent's name and home address, according to the order.

Appears that Florida wants to keep closer tabs on children "stigmatized" or even worse "warned" about wearing a mask. And this guy is #2 right now for the GOP Presidential nomination.

If you don't suck up to your insane right wing base you ain't going anywhere.

 

[DBT]

Have there been vaccines which appeared fine initially but then had long term effects?

There have been vaccines with long term side effects, which may drive hesitancy regardless of anything else. It's a matter of perception and possibility, not necessarily reality. Plus there have been side effects, clotting, etc, albeit with minimal risk to date.

So, rightly or wrongly, the mere possibility of long term harm may be enough to drive hesitancy for some people. Which is clearly the case.

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

''A conference was held in Bethesda, Maryland, in May 1998 to discuss our data. At the conference we stated that the data on the vaccine support our published findings that immunisation starting after the age of 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. Our analysis is further supported by a similar rise in diabetes after immunisation with H influenzae type b vaccine in the United States4 and United Kingdom.5 Furthermore, the increased risk of diabetes in the vaccinated group exceeds the expected decreased risk of complications of H influenzae meningitis.''

''Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.''

 

[Jarhyn]

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

''A conference was held in Bethesda, Maryland, in May 1998 to discuss our data. At the conference we stated that the data on the vaccine support our published findings that immunisation starting after the age of 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. Our analysis is further supported by a similar rise in diabetes after immunisation with H influenzae type b vaccine in the United States4 and United Kingdom.5 Furthermore, the increased risk of diabetes in the vaccinated group exceeds the expected decreased risk of complications of H influenzae meningitis.''

''Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.''

Wow, so, not arguing against you, but the idiot that wrote that, holy fucking shit...

"Scary thing may be linked" is "we can't validate our hypothesis but will make a claim whose caveats will be ignored to bolster our argument"

 

[ZiprHead]

Poison control calls spike as people try livestock dewormer to treat COVID-19

According to the health alert in Mississippi:

At least 70% of the recent calls have been related to ingestion of livestock or animal formulations of ivermectin purchased at livestock supply centers
85% of the callers had mild symptoms
No one has been hospitalized due to ingestion of the drug

Morons...

 

[barbos]

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

''A conference was held in Bethesda, Maryland, in May 1998 to discuss our data. At the conference we stated that the data on the vaccine support our published findings that immunisation starting after the age of 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. Our analysis is further supported by a similar rise in diabetes after immunisation with H influenzae type b vaccine in the United States4 and United Kingdom.5 Furthermore, the increased risk of diabetes in the vaccinated group exceeds the expected decreased risk of complications of H influenzae meningitis.''

''Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.''

Interesting, but it is a 20 year old publication. There should be more evidence by now. I mean that would be huge if it were proven.
I don't think I can get the whole paper but I suspect they have correlation there, not actual causation.
There was a study which purported that certain virus infections can trigger obesity later in life. So I guess certain vaccines can do that too in theory.

 

[repoman]

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

''A conference was held in Bethesda, Maryland, in May 1998 to discuss our data. At the conference we stated that the data on the vaccine support our published findings that immunisation starting after the age of 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. Our analysis is further supported by a similar rise in diabetes after immunisation with H influenzae type b vaccine in the United States4 and United Kingdom.5 Furthermore, the increased risk of diabetes in the vaccinated group exceeds the expected decreased risk of complications of H influenzae meningitis.''

''Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.''

Interesting, but it is a 20 year old publication. There should be more evidence by now. I mean that would be huge if it were proven.
I don't think I can get the whole paper but I suspect they have correlation there, not actual causation.
There was a study which purported that certain virus infections can trigger obesity later in life. So I guess certain vaccines can do that too in theory.

First off, which problems in the body that viruses cause can vaccines ALSO cause and which problems is it impossible for vaccines to cause along the same mechanism? Is it mostly from antibodies that we would produce that would also be produuced in an infection? A rare, unlikely antibody that causes an autoimmune response of what duration? I don't see how a vaccine would cause the same problem as a virus that inserted itself into DNA (not mRNA).

I posted a journal article and documentary video about the obesity virus (Adenovirus 36) months ago and had no response

https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?22936-Can-Obesity-Be-Contagious-Video-about-the-science-and-the-scientist



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517116/

 

[Toni]

Well, crap. A young man who was one of my son's friends from elementary and middle school has died of COVID19. I hadn't seen him in years. His parents, who were, as the kids say, real pieces of work, split and he moved to another town sometime early in high school so I hadn't seen him in years and would periodically get small updates from my son. I remember him as a sweet kid who was deeply hurt by injustices suffered by other people. He and his siblings were really sweet but the parents....not great.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | The Quiet Rage of the Responsible - The New York Times

Let’s talk for a minute about Lollapalooza. After canceling in-person events last year, a few weeks ago Chicago once again hosted the long-running music festival, drawing more than 385,000 people. Many feared that the huge, raucous crowds could produce a coronavirus superspreader event.

But the festival required proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test for entry, and it introduced indoor mask requirements halfway through. And very few people appear to have been infected.

What does this tell us? That the return to more or less normal life and its pleasures many expected Covid vaccines to deliver could have happened in the United States. The reason it hasn’t — the reason we are instead still living in fear, with hospitals in much of the South nearing breaking point — is that not enough people have been vaccinated and not enough people are wearing masks.

Although he can understand why some people have difficulty getting vaccinated,

But there’s much less excuse for those who refuse to get their shots or wear masks for cultural or ideological reasons — and no excuse at all for MAGA governors like Ron DeSantis in Florida, Greg Abbott in Texas and Doug Ducey in Arizona who have been actively impeding efforts to contain the latest outbreak.

...
Most notably, ever since masks became a front in the culture war it has been clear that many opponents of mask mandates aren’t merely demanding the right to go unmasked themselves — they want to stop others from acting responsibly. Tucker Carlson has called on his viewers to confront people they encounter who are wearing masks, and there have been scattered reports of violent attacks on mask-wearers.

Fox has quietly implemented its own version of a vaccine passport while its top personalities attack them - CNN

Fox employees, including those who work at Fox News, received an email, obtained by CNN Business, from the company's Human Resources department in early June that said Fox had "developed a secure, voluntary way for employees to self-attest their vaccination status."

...
The concept, which was first reported Monday by Ryan Grim on The Hill's morning streaming show, is known internally as "FOX Clear Pass."
While the "Fox Clear Pass" is voluntary for employees, and other companies have similar tools, it is still remarkable, given how vocal Fox's top talent has been in criticizing the concept of vaccine passports.

Why haven't Tucker Carlson quit in disgust? Also his fellow Fox anti-vaxxers. Newsmax or OAN would *love* to have them.

 

[lpetrich]

Author Paul Krugman then notes how right-wing politicians violated their loudly-proclaimed principles. I remember that during the Clinton years, when right-wingers did a lot of that.

For decades, conservatives have insisted that business owners should have the right to do as they please — to hire and fire at will, to deny service to whomever they choose. Yet here we have Abbott threatening to pull the liquor licenses of restaurants that ask for proof of vaccination, even as Texas runs out of I.C.U. beds.

Conservatives have also championed local control of education — except, it turns out, when school districts want to protect children with mask rules, in which case MAGA governors want to seize control and cut off their funding.

So the friends of Covid-19 aren’t motivated by love of freedom.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://floridapolitics.com/archive...bio-holds-just-a-2-point-edge-on-val-demings/

...
Sen. Marco Rubio holds just a 2-percentage-point edge over Democratic challenger Val Demings, according to a new survey released Wednesday morning. The Senate remains the favorite for reelection, leading with 48% to Demings 46%, according to the latest numbers from St. Pete Polls. That leaves his lead within the poll’s 2.2% margin of error, and the two-term incumbent sits below a critical 50% support level.
...

Apparently, GOP politics is not winning votes with its Covid-19 policies. This is going to be a race to watch.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Got my prescriptions at WalMart tonight.
On the way out, looking for an exit that wasn't blocked by shoppers, i pass a guy in line. He said, "Nice face diaper."

I have had a few comments on my masks over the last year. The Nightmare Before Christmas one, the two Smithsonian ones, this one's from the International Spy Museum in DC. But face-diaper seems derogatory. Only ever heard it used by anti-maskers.
So i stopped, considered. "That's a good term, since i'm still wearing it due to antivaxxer Shit!"
And walked off before he could say anything about doing my own research or wha tever....

 

[ZiprHead]

Got my prescriptions at WalMart tonight.
On the way out, looking for an exit that wasn't blocked by shoppers, i pass a guy in line. He said, "Nice face diaper."

I have had a few comments on my masks over the last year. The Nightmare Before Christmas one, the two Smithsonian ones, this one's from the International Spy Museum in DC. But face-diaper seems derogatory. Only ever heard it used by anti-maskers.
So i stopped, considered. "That's a good term, since i'm still wearing it due to antivaxxer Shit!"
And walked off before he could say anything about doing my own research or wha tever....

Nice comeback.

I haven't had a comment yet but I just plan on coughing and saying "I have covid."

 

[Keith&Co.]

Got my prescriptions at WalMart tonight.
On the way out, looking for an exit that wasn't blocked by shoppers, i pass a guy in line. He said, "Nice face diaper."

I have had a few comments on my masks over the last year. The Nightmare Before Christmas one, the two Smithsonian ones, this one's from the International Spy Museum in DC. But face-diaper seems derogatory. Only ever heard it used by anti-maskers.
So i stopped, considered. "That's a good term, since i'm still wearing it due to antivaxxer Shit!"
And walked off before he could say anything about doing my own research or wha tever....

Nice comeback.

I haven't had a comment yet but I just plan on coughing and saying "I have covid."

I had PLANNED for a comment like, "You don't need that mask" and i'd say "you don't know why i'm wearing it." But the diaper thing.... so, if it's about shit, where's the shit coming from...?

low-hanging fruit.

 

[untermensche]

The anti-maskers are also the anti-vaxxers.

And right now a lot of anti-vaxxers are dying.

Poetic justice?

Just get the vaccine and be happy you are very unlikely to get infected and if you do unlikely to die.

In my hospital we had a 35 year old man die from COVID this morning. Didn't get vaccinated. He was obese but there are a lot of obese anti-vaxxers.

 

[crazyfingers]

I'm on vacation in Maine. Along the coast just east of Acadia National Park and up Rt 1 from Ellsworth. Got here this afternoon. Went to a Dollar General for some frozen pizzas and paper plates before the larger grocery run tomorrow. I was the only person in the store with a mask on. I didn't get any dirty looks but it was strange.

Wonder what the supermarket will be like tomorrow. Back home near Boston about 70% of shoppers and all workers have masks on.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maine isn’t quite the Covid hotspot and being up in Acadia, you are a bit off of the beaten path. I’d guess Portland might be more masked up.

Meanwhile the US extends Canada travel limitations. Again proving the TSwizzles out there right, that what is happening has no effect on us, as long as we have a boat and can float across Erie.

 

[blastula]

The antivaxxer radio host Valentine has died.

Phil Valentine dead at 61 from COVID-19 battle: Nashville radio host

I had to specify which radio host died, because here's another one who died.

Religious radio host Jimmy DeYoung dies of COVID-19 | Charlotte Observer

So did GOPer Steve Walsh from Missouri, not Kansas.

Steve Walsh, husband of State Rep. Sara Walsh, dies of COVID-19

The Walshes were not vaccinated against the virus.

Sara Walsh, who is running for U.S. Rep. Vicky Hartzler's 4th District congressional seat, said she didn't get the vaccine since it still lacks full approval from the Food and Drug Administration.

At the time, she also cited concerns about friends' negative reactions to the vaccine and said she didn't feel she needed it as she'd been healthy since the pandemic began.

Walsh liked to downplay covid and mock masks and vaccines, like here.

[TWEET]https://mobile.twitter.com/Stevewalsh2010/status/1358256754275016704[/TWEET]

He's right, a fraction of a percent die from covid. So I guess no big deal for him.

Here's another antivaxxer loon.

Catholic cardinal who spread vaccine misinformation now on a ventilator battling COVID-19 - CBS News

All these people dying or getting ventilated unnecessarily because of their childish political tribalism. It's even stronger than religion, because the Pope has been telling Catholics to get jabbed.