Covid-19 miscellany

[blastula]

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

Sure, there's also ignorance/stupidity.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

It's a shitty example, so?

 

[repoman]

The anti-maskers are also the anti-vaxxers.

And right now a lot of anti-vaxxers are dying.

Poetic justice?

Just get the vaccine and be happy you are very unlikely to get infected and if you do unlikely to die.

In my hospital we had a 35 year old man die from COVID this morning. Didn't get vaccinated. He was obese but there are a lot of obese anti-vaxxers.

Can you give me a rundown of how treatment of covid has evolved to now vs a year ago? Early treatment and treatment in the hospital...

This sucks that I have to say this AGAIN, but I am pro vax for all but the vanishingly rare hyper allergic and have been vaccinated.

Querying treatment is NOT a sure sign of someone being antivax, Jesus Cocksucking Christ...

Can this country walk and chew gun at the same time in regards to keeping mental flexibility?

Now it is mostly the unvaxxed who are getting cut down, but at the same time there is a great deal of opportunity to figure out what can keep the cytokine storm and later clotting from getting out of control for when a NEW disease or non vaccinateable strain of covid pops up. What is your hospital learning on the fly now? How much latitude do the doctors have? Are they robots to the protocols?

Please leave politics and bitching and moaning out of an answer.

 

[DBT]

Do you have an example?

As I said, I'm not arguing against vaccination.

My point, as stated, is that not all vaccine hesitancy is driven by the anti vacc brigade.

I pointed out that some folks are hesitant because of a perceived risk of long term consequences. The perception is not necessarily supported. Driven, perhaps, by a mistrust of authority, being routinely lied to by politicians, etc.

There is scant evidence of actual long term harm from vaccines.

Again, I am not arguing against vaccination, so this is nothing more than an example of research into possible long terms problems;

''A conference was held in Bethesda, Maryland, in May 1998 to discuss our data. At the conference we stated that the data on the vaccine support our published findings that immunisation starting after the age of 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. Our analysis is further supported by a similar rise in diabetes after immunisation with H influenzae type b vaccine in the United States4 and United Kingdom.5 Furthermore, the increased risk of diabetes in the vaccinated group exceeds the expected decreased risk of complications of H influenzae meningitis.''

''Research into immunisation has been based on the theory that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events and so long term safety studies do not need to be performed. When looking at diabetes—only one potential chronic adverse event—we found that the rise in the prevalence of diabetes may more than offset the expected decline in long term complications of H influenzae meningitis. Thus diabetes induced by vaccine should not be considered a rare potential adverse event. The incidence of many other chronic immunological diseases, including asthma, allergies, and immune mediated cancers, has risen rapidly and may also be linked to immunisation.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation. We believe that the outcome of this decision will be the development of safer vaccine technology.''

Wow, so, not arguing against you, but the idiot that wrote that, holy fucking shit...

"Scary thing may be linked" is "we can't validate our hypothesis but will make a claim whose caveats will be ignored to bolster our argument"

It doesn't matter how unfounded a study or claim may be, it's the perception of possible long term effects that drives hesitancy in some some people, and not necessarily an anti vax stance. The mistrust is probably fueled by past reassurances by authority figures that were proven wrong, lies by politicians, etc.

That's all I wanted to point out. I have no personal investment in the issue.

 

[DBT]

Querying treatment is NOT a sure sign of someone being antivax, Jesus Cocksucking Christ...

It seems to be an unexpectantly hard point to get across.

 

[barbos]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC27850/

I am confused. In one place they say there is effect. In other, the same people say the is not

Conclusion
It is unlikely that H influenzae type b vaccination or its timing cause type 1 diabetes in children.

 

[untermensche]

The anti-maskers are also the anti-vaxxers.

And right now a lot of anti-vaxxers are dying.

Poetic justice?

Just get the vaccine and be happy you are very unlikely to get infected and if you do unlikely to die.

In my hospital we had a 35 year old man die from COVID this morning. Didn't get vaccinated. He was obese but there are a lot of obese anti-vaxxers.

Can you give me a rundown of how treatment of covid has evolved to now vs a year ago? Early treatment and treatment in the hospital...

This sucks that I have to say this AGAIN, but I am pro vax for all but the vanishingly rare hyper allergic and have been vaccinated.

Querying treatment is NOT a sure sign of someone being antivax, Jesus Cocksucking Christ...

Can this country walk and chew gun at the same time in regards to keeping mental flexibility?

Now it is mostly the unvaxxed who are getting cut down, but at the same time there is a great deal of opportunity to figure out what can keep the cytokine storm and later clotting from getting out of control for when a NEW disease or non vaccinateable strain of covid pops up. What is your hospital learning on the fly now? How much latitude do the doctors have? Are they robots to the protocols?

Please leave politics and bitching and moaning out of an answer.

I am not a physician. I work as a physical therapist. I also happen to be a pharmacist so I know the drugs. But I do not work as a pharmacist so I don't know the drugs as well as working pharmacists know them.

I'm not sure what you're questioning. Treatments are now standardized throughout the nation. If you have certain signs and symptoms you get certain drugs and treatments. If you get worse they move to secondary treatments.

Specifically people are getting things like Remdesivir an antiviral, Monoclonal antibodies, steroids and antibiotics. Of course with supplemental treatments like oxygen and IV fluids.

They now know a lot of things to not do.

They now try to keep people off the vents as long as possible. In the beginning they were putting them on at the first sign of trouble. A lot of patients are on heated high flow oxygen at high rates. But this keeps many people comfortable.

I was talking to a pulmonologist the other day and he said with this new variant once people are vented and are getting bad there is no drug to help them.

Like I said the treatments are now standardized and evolving. In the beginning of course that was impossible since they knew nothing about the treatment of COVID.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anti-Covid vaccination Idiot Right Wing AM Radio fire starter dies... of Covid.

"Phil would like for his listeners to know that while he has never been an 'anti-vaxer' he regrets not being more vehemently 'Pro-Vaccine', and looks forward to being able to more vigorously advocate that position as soon as he is back on the air, which we all hope will be soon," his brother Mark Valentine wrote on July 22.

Yeah, it must be tough for the family. This guy's change of mind at the last second is a bit too late. They laid this groundwork and now over a thousand are dying needlessly a day in the US. Feel for the family, fuck him.

 

[TomC]

Anti-Covid vaccination Idiot Right Wing AM Radio fire starter dies... of Covid.

"Phil would like for his listeners to know that while he has never been an 'anti-vaxer' he regrets not being more vehemently 'Pro-Vaccine', and looks forward to being able to more vigorously advocate that position as soon as he is back on the air, which we all hope will be soon," his brother Mark Valentine wrote on July 22.

Yeah, it must be tough for the family. This guy's change of mind at the last second is a bit too late. They laid this groundwork and now over a thousand are dying needlessly a day in the US. Feel for the family, fuck him.

I feel a little bad for him.
But he did choose risky behavior. I feel bad for him the way I feel bad for a drunk who dies wrapping his car around a tree.
I feel worse for his family. They may have supported his risky behavior, but they didn't choose it.


Who I feel worst for is his audience. The people who believed him. People who believed that he was an expert or something.

Apparently, there's a lot of those. And they have access to better information than he provided, they just didn't want to hear it.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump gets booed when he tells people to take the vaccine.

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump advises his audience in Alabama to take the Covid vaccine <a href="https://t.co/aaxQfnnxoh">pic.twitter.com/aaxQfnnxoh</a></p>— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) <a href="https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1429255690682572805?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anti-Covid vaccination Idiot Right Wing AM Radio fire starter dies... of Covid.

"Phil would like for his listeners to know that while he has never been an 'anti-vaxer' he regrets not being more vehemently 'Pro-Vaccine', and looks forward to being able to more vigorously advocate that position as soon as he is back on the air, which we all hope will be soon," his brother Mark Valentine wrote on July 22.

Yeah, it must be tough for the family. This guy's change of mind at the last second is a bit too late. They laid this groundwork and now over a thousand are dying needlessly a day in the US. Feel for the family, fuck him.

I feel a little bad for him.
But he did choose risky behavior. I feel bad for him the way I feel bad for a drunk who dies wrapping his car around a tree.
I feel worse for his family. They may have supported his risky behavior, but they didn't choose it.


Who I feel worst for is his audience. The people who believed him. People who believed that he was an expert or something.

Apparently, there's a lot of those. And they have access to better information than he provided, they just didn't want to hear it.
Tom

Fuck his arrogant as fuck audience. They wanted to think they were special with their special unique info. Almost a parasite and parasite relationship, which is why it is so destructive.

 

[crazyfingers]

I'm on vacation in Maine. Along the coast just east of Acadia National Park and up Rt 1 from Ellsworth. Got here this afternoon. Went to a Dollar General for some frozen pizzas and paper plates before the larger grocery run tomorrow. I was the only person in the store with a mask on. I didn't get any dirty looks but it was strange.

Wonder what the supermarket will be like tomorrow. Back home near Boston about 70% of shoppers and all workers have masks on.

The supermarket which is the same chain we go to at home, Albertsons/Shaws/Star Market, all employees had masks but maybe only 20-30% of customers.

No dirty looks anyway.

My daughter's unvaccinated boyfriend was here for a bit. Not allowed in the house. Not allowed to ride in my car. What problems! But I'm not bending my rules. It made it hard for him to participate in stuff. I don't understand his reluctance.

I warned my daughter that when my wife finally gets home from Canada where she can't get a vaccine, that unless her boyfriend is vaccinated, she probably won't be allowed to life in out house back home. She'll need to either get an apartment or use my mother's unoccupied house. She spends to much time with this unvacccinated boyfriend , like having sex, for my wife to be willing to risk her being an asymptomatic carrier in hour home at least until she is able to get vaccinated.

He is a really nice guy but them's the rules.

 

[repoman]

This is spitballing here, but it seems like the vaccine really stops the nasty stuff from happening in the blood rich environment of the lungs but not so much in the mucous dominated nose and throat.

Now, is it that vaccinated people can spread Delta that has really only gotten a hold in the upper airways, but non vaxxed can more often spread the current (and possibly mutated inside themselves) virus after it has gone wild in the lungs?

Basically, a reticence other than not get walloped which should be enough for most people (99+% without vax allergies) is that "well the vaccines don't even stop spreading delta anyways"... Which may partially be true now.

But spreading unvaxxed patient mutated delta that has learned new tricks in the lungs vs vaxxed delta pateint that has much less so could be really bad.

Is it known how infectious covid is after it has burrowed deep into the lungs compared to the when it is mostly in the upper airways? Does it come back out a lot?

 

[Toni]

This is spitballing here, but it seems like the vaccine really stops the nasty stuff from happening in the blood rich environment of the lungs but not so much in the mucous dominated nose and throat.

Now, is it that vaccinated people can spread Delta that has really only gotten a hold in the upper airways, but non vaxxed can more often spread the current (and possibly mutated inside themselves) virus after it has gone wild in the lungs?

Basically, a reticence other than not get walloped which should be enough for most people (99+% without vax allergies) is that "well the vaccines don't even stop spreading delta anyways"... Which may partially be true now.

But spreading unvaxxed patient mutated delta that has learned new tricks in the lungs vs vaxxed delta pateint that has much less so could be really bad.

Is it known how infectious covid is after it has burrowed deep into the lungs compared to the when it is mostly in the upper airways? Does it come back out a lot?

Can I ask a serious question, intended very respectfully:

Do you have any background in medical science or virology or cell and molecular biology?

 

[untermensche]

This is spitballing here, but it seems like the vaccine really stops the nasty stuff from happening in the blood rich environment of the lungs but not so much in the mucous dominated nose and throat.

The vaccinated are getting pneumonia and some unvaccinated are only having upper respiratory infections.

All the vaccine seems to be doing is preventing death when things get bad and the infection gets deep.

 

[Elixir]

All the vaccine seems to be doing is preventing death

Right? Who needs that shit!

 

[bilby]

This is spitballing here,

Spitballing, both literal and figurative, is a really bad idea during a pandemic of respiratory disease.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to VAERS, at least one patient has died of gunshot wounds, following Covid vaccination.

Clearly, as an urgent precaution to avoid further fatalities, the vaccines should NOT be offered to military personnel, patients who live in areas with frequent gunfire, or anybody who habitually frequents firing ranges or their immediate surroundings.

Unrelated? Sure he wasn't shot by a QOP nutcase for being vaccinated?

Remember, sometimes the North Vietnamese hacked off the arms of those who showed the signs of smallpox vaccination.

 

[TomC]

Unrelated? Sure he wasn't shot by a QOP nutcase for being vaccinated?

If this is the case I'm thinking of, the gunshot had nothing to do with an infection.
The hospital was so crammed full of C19 cases, they just didn't have the capacity to care for another patient.
Tom

 

[Angry Floof]

When's the last time anyone has seen in the Western world a library repurposed into a pandemic treatment center?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/us/f...tibody-treatment-center/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Libraries are normally places of solitude and silence. On Wednesday, however, Lopez described a persistent sound of crying and pained moans from some of those seeking treatment.

 

[DBT]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC27850/

I am confused. In one place they say there is effect. In other, the same people say the is not

Conclusion
It is unlikely that H influenzae type b vaccination or its timing cause type 1 diabetes in children.

Again, it is the sense of ambiguity, uncertainty and things that have gone wrong in the past that causes some people to have caution when it comes to new drugs or vaccines and not necessarily an ant-vax stance.